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SPECULATION Is Luke Rey's Father? - The Evidence For and Against

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by master_shaitan, Feb 17, 2016.

?

Is Rey the daughter of Luke Skywalker

  1. Yes

    234 vote(s)
    36.2%
  2. No

    288 vote(s)
    44.6%
  3. Undecided

    124 vote(s)
    19.2%
  1. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I disagree. Luke believed his father would turn back to the light side. If he didn't think that he wouldn't have gone there. And he knew the importance of redeeming his father. He knew that it was down to him to defeat the Sith. It was interlinked for sure, but Luke did what was right by the galaxy. In the moment you speak of, Luke rejected the chance to ensure his friends safety and turned away from the dark side at the cost of his own life.
     
    #7061 master_shaitan, Feb 20, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017
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  2. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    This is frankly absurd. @master_shaitan has been open to persuasion on this topic. He's never said he'll quit watching the series if he's wrong. I don't even think he has a strong emotional attachment to the outcome that some here have exhibited over the past 12 months. To single him out is comical.
     
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  3. Shadrac

    Shadrac Rebelscum

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    That's not true. We see Vader's inner conflict come out a couple times in ESB such as arguing with the Emperor that Luke would be more valuable to them alive which clearly showed that Vader cared about the fate of his son and at the end when he walks off the bridge in thought rather than lashing out in anger when the Millennium Falcon escapes.

    In ROTJ, there is also clearly visible conflict in him in the scene with Vader and Luke before Vader takes him to the Emperor. Vader's line 'It is too late for me my son' is fraught with inner turmoil as he weakly tries to convince his son there is no light left in him. After he sends Luke away, Vader walks over to a window and leans on the railing and is clearly conflicted. He is also clearly preoccupied with finding Luke throughout the movie and even the Emperor suspects his motives for doing so aren't entirely pure or in service to the Empire. While it may not have been presented as overtly as they are doing with Kylo, there are moments of conflict in the OT. It's Vader being locked inside an expressionless mask that probably made the conflict harder to see.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 20, 2017 ---
    No, there is nothing in the OT to indicate either a belief his father would turn back to the light side or that his father's redemption held any importance beyond his own wishes. In fact, when he tells Leia he is gong to confront Vader, his reason for doing it is that Vader is their father and 'I have to try'. He gives no indication that he believes or is in any way confident that it would work.
     
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  4. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Are you being serious right now?

    Except the fact that the Jedi made it clear to Luke that he had to destroy the Sith. But Luke didn't want to kill his father so instead sought to redeem him. Even so, Luke saw clearly how important it was to destroy the Sith either by killing them or through redemption. Dave Filoni has also recently stated that he thinks Yoda and Ben actually wanted Luke to redeem Anakin but essentially bluffed him so he'd come to the decision himself.

    Of course he doesn't know 100% but the point is he believes there is good in him and he thinks he can bring him back.
    "I know there is good in you. That is why you couldn't bring yourself to destroy me before and that is why you won't bring me to your Emperor now".
    The point is, Luke's entire destiny has been about being trained as a Jedi to defeat the Sith.
     
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  5. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    I would argue that in ESB I don't see a inner conflict.
    I don't see Veder fighting two differet impulses: going back to the light side or stay in the dark side.
    I don't see him divided.
    I see him trying to seduce Luke, trying to save his son (yes) but by turning him.
    I would say he maybe plans to betray the Emperor ("we will rule as father and son")
    but whatever the case is, I don't see him questioning his past choices. He has not doubt.

    However, I guess we can have different perceptions about this.
    But lets preted I do feel as you feel, still I don't think how Veder is portrayed in the OT is comparable to how Anakin is portrayed in the PT or Kylo in the ST.
    In those cases, that conflict is the main aspect of those characters arcs.
    In Veder's case - at least - we can discuss how much he is or not divided between light and dark.

    This is what I essentially meant before.
    I'm sorry but my English does not allow me to say it better.
    I hope I made myself more clear this time around.
     
    #7065 lealt, Feb 20, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
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  6. Shadrac

    Shadrac Rebelscum

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    Yes, I'm being serious. Luke had hope that Vader would come back to the light and expressed it. There was never any expressed confidence that he would only a belief that, as his son, Luke had an obligation to try. Remember Luke believed the the Rebel Alliance's attack would be successful and ultimately destroy the Emperor along with he and his father if Vader turned him over to Palpatine. That tells me he didn't think it was necessarily on him alone and felt free to try and reach his father because everything, in his opinion, was well in hand.

    Dave Filoni's opinion is no more valid than any of ours. When Luke told Ben that he can't kill his own father, Ben replies 'Then Emperor has already won'. That doesn't sound like a bluff to me. In fact, it comes across like Ben is trying to make him feel guilty and even selfish if he doesn't do it.

    No, Yoda and Ben decided that destiny for him. They decided to hide him away until the time was right, in their minds, to train Luke to be the weapon they wanted him to be. However he 'chose his own path' because, as hard as Yoda and Ben tried, they couldn't choose it for him in the end. His choice had nothing to do with saving the galaxy and everything to do with saving his father. That both were saved was a happy coincidence not his destiny or likely even on his mind as others were taking care of the galaxy while he was dealing with his father.

    The problem is you only see the throne scenes as Luke being tempted to the dark side and his ultimate victory over it by letting go when he threw his light saber away but that's not what's really happening there nor was that Luke's motivation. What's really happening in those scenes, and why most of the dialogue is between the Emperor and Luke, is a final battle between Luke and the Emperor for Anakin's soul. Other than one moment of anger, Luke never seeks to attack the Emperor and continuously put's the light in his father front and center.

    From saying he's 'A Jedi like my father' and nodding his head toward Vader, Telling Vader he feels the conflict within him, showing his father that it is possible to overcome the Emperor's influence by overcoming it himself and throwing his weapon away or pleading for his help while being tortured and slowly killed and calling him father. He was continuously prodding at the light within his father and attacking the darkness controlling him which ultimately succeeds in saving him.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 20, 2017 ---
    You did just fine. You're right that the ESB scenes are open to some interpretation but the ROTJ scenes are pretty obvious conflict don't you think?
     
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  7. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

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    i think @Dark Toilet was being comical my friend.

    that's coz i've worn him down. My next challenge is to convince him that Rey is Jar Jar's daughter.. like putty in my hand :D
     
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  8. Dark Toilet

    Dark Toilet Force Sensitive

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    I think what @Maximus is trying to say is:



    Quite. Unless I have completely misjudged our teasing back and forth, I certainly hope that @master_shaitan would agree... however:

    #YourReyloTheorySucks

    :p
     
    #7068 Dark Toilet, Feb 20, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
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  9. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    Probably I should have said better "in the final scenes" and not "in that scena almost at end of ROJ".
    But as told, what I really meant is that on a general level the way a villan is portrayed nowadays (or in the late 90s/first 2000es) is more complex, deeper than it was 40 years ago.
     
  10. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    You said "there is nothing in the OT to indicate either a belief his father would turn back to the light side".
    Throughout Return of the Jedi, Luke tells people there is light in Vader and he thinks he can turn him back to the good side.
    Clearly, the Jedi think it vital for Luke to take on The Emperor and Vader - both to destroy them but also so Luke can go on to become a Jedi.

    The part I am working on now is mostly about Darth Vader, who he is, where he came from, how he became Luke and Leia's father, what his relationship to Ben is. In Jedi, the film is really about the Redemption of this fallen angel. Ben is the fitting good angel, and Vader is the bad angel who started off good. All these years Ben has been waiting for Luke to come of age so that he can become a Jedi and redeem his father. That's what Ben has been doing, but you don't know this in the first film."
    --George Lucas

    Dave Filoni spoke with Lucas specifically about this point so I think the idea has a lot of merit.

    Luke's destiny was to be a Jedi. In order to be a Jedi he had to face his father. So he knew that in order to be a Jedi he'd have to either kill or redeem his father. But as he was unwilling to kill him, he knew he'd either have to redeem him or die himself. Fact is, Luke believes he can redeem Vader and if he has been listening to Yoda or Ben at all, he will know the importance of bringing down the Sith. Sure, he thinks the Death Star will be blown up - but he soon realises that probably won't be the case. He sees that it is down to him and likely sees what the Jedi have been on about the whole time.

    Until Vader threatens Leia and Luke goes nuts. Luke then realises he will become his father and be a great threat to the galaxy.

    Indeed.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 20, 2017 ---
    Yeah sure...




     
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  11. Dark Toilet

    Dark Toilet Force Sensitive

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    [​IMG]

    Well then, I stand corrected.

    [​IMG]

    ;)
     
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  12. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    @Shadrac
    Re: Jedi wanting Luke to redeem Vader.

    "And Luke, let's face it, he was never really the best. I have a notion that anyone on the Council could really kick his butt. He had a lot of heart though, right? He had a lot going for him. And almost it was what he didn't know that made him really dangerous to the Emperor, it's just love for his father -- but he wasn't going to take you out with his lightsaber skills, that was for sure. "

    +

    Filoni suggests Luke's real mission all along, was to redeem Vader. He says "And almost it was what he didn't know that made him really dangerous to the Emperor, it's just love for his father --"

    +

    "I mean, on a basic level at this point he's so much better trained than Luke could ever be. It's just an interesting take on what are all these other people that have the Force doing? And how do we not have that interfere with the blinding light, the New Hope that Luke Skywalker becomes? Luke's mission in the Force is very specific. Learn to be selfless. Selfless enough to save your Father. To realize that you can forgive and redeem. And that's a bit different than where we're going with Ezra and Kanan for sure."


    I can't find the other quote right now where he stated specifically that after discussions with Lucas he saw that the Jedi wanted Luke to redeem Vader and not kill him. If you watch the movies again you will notice that they never tell Luke to kill Vader. Ben does suggest that "The Emperor has already won" if Luke doesn't kill Vader but again, I think they needed Luke to not be attached to an idea but rather be open to everything. Makes sense to me.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 20, 2017 ---
     
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  13. Dark Toilet

    Dark Toilet Force Sensitive

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    What?!? Do you think us all villagers on Jakku?

    [​IMG]

    Either that or you think there is some sort of spider infestation at the Cantina...

    [​IMG]

    Somehow, with all of the console thrashing and flamethrower references, I can't but help think this is coming closer to @master_shaitan's fate:

     
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  14. Lia

    Lia Rebel Commander

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    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Jedihopper

    Jedihopper Rebel General

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    See, I'm gone for a few months and only a few people here are still sane!!

    Of course she's "somebody" - the build up of her parentage would NOT be this big on the part of the filmmakers if she wasn't.

    And she's not going to fall in love with and end up with Han Solos killer. This isn't 50 Shades of the Force - they are setting her up as a way stronger female character than that. Kylo has killed and tortured many people by now, close friends of and including Rey herself.

    "But anakin did horrible things and was redeemed" some say?

    yes - but padme was getting ready to leave him remember? "you're going down a path I can't follow!" Because of Obi-wan? "Because of what you've done, what you plan to do"

    ReyLo is fan fic nonsense, nothing more, nothing less.

    Long live Rey Skywalker!
     
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  16. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    "50 Shades of the Force" is hilarius.
    But I guess "50 Shades of Grey Jedi" could work even better. :)
     
    #7076 lealt, Feb 21, 2017
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  17. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    34187007.jpg
     
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  18. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    great post :D
     
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  19. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    This isn't 50 Shades of the Force, but you're okay with the most obvious explanation for the Rey mystery. Give the people what they want! Even if it's boring.

    One thing I've thought about recently is that perhaps Lucasfilm will feel pressured to make Rey a Skywalker simply because that's what people want. I'll keep watching films no matter what but we've seen in this forum people claim they'll quit watching. There is a segment of the fanbase that has a huge emotional investment in seeing the same story over and over.

    Certainly Lucasfilm is aware of this issue. Maybe they will end the Jedi Order in this trilogy simply because it complicates the ability for the Skywalkers to procreate. It's worth remembering that Pixar keeps pumping out Cars movies not because they're the best story, but because that's what people want.
     
    #7079 DailyPlunge, Feb 21, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
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  20. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    This is the danger. I too will carry on watching, but if they don't take this saga forward in a compelling way that truly adds to the mythology rather than just rehashing it I certainly won't be talking about it as much as I am now.

    I know people don't like the ReyLo idea, but I just feel that it could really take the saga in a new direction and present new themes. I'm so over the Skywalker familial stuff. We've got enough of that going on with Ren.
     
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