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SPECULATION The Connection Between Rey and Ben.

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by BB-Rey, Feb 12, 2017.

?

What Is Their Connection?

  1. Cousins

    27 vote(s)
    23.9%
  2. Siblings

    7 vote(s)
    6.2%
  3. Cousins and Balancing of the Force

    19 vote(s)
    16.8%
  4. Siblings and Balancing of the Force

    8 vote(s)
    7.1%
  5. No Biological Connection and Balancing of the Force

    36 vote(s)
    31.9%
  6. None of the Above

    16 vote(s)
    14.2%
  1. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    at the heart of this is the sheer fact of Adam Driver's pure base magnetism. whatever people may think of his face, the man exudes presence, even under the mask. so yes, this is why if you look at the "shipping" that goes on with the TFA characters, there's nobody that hasn't been hooked up with Ren Ben and the most "popular" ships are those with characters with whom he has a specifically antagonistic relationship in the film.

    this isn't because people are inclined to perversion, it's like you said: people read that antagonism as sexual tension on a very basic level.

    whether or not he intends it, Driver can be very sexually threatening for some people.
    but frankly it wouldn't surprise me if that wasn't part of why he was cast in the role to begin with.
     
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  2. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    no thanks :oops:
     
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  3. Dark Cutie

    Dark Cutie Guest

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    I don't think everyone here knows and understands s-e-x-u-a-l t-e-n-s-i-o-n

    Whaat? She has a point ;)
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 20, 2017 ---
    Sorry @Maximillian to presume your gender :) thought you were a she....that shows good understanding of human nature :)
     
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  4. Starchaser

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    It just occurred to me that you're right! How did I not see this before, this movie has been out for a year! What I mean is.....I always thought that she was entitled to get very angry and get back at him for what he did...which is somewhat true. But I didn't think about one detail: she saw inside his mind just like he saw into hers. I mean i did think about it, but not in the right way. I thought that going for his biggest fear was what anyone would have done in her place. But it isn't. Because when he did it, he didn't just look around, he felt what she was feeling, and had compassion. Obviously, going inside someone's mind isn't like looking around from a safe distance. So it's safe to assume that it was the same for Rey when she got inside Ren's mind. She didn't just see facts, she saw what he was feeling. Which must be horrible, there's probably hell in his head. How can anyone ignore that and go straight for the biggest weakness? That's an amazing lack of compassion there. I used to think that she needs time to think about what she saw.....but you don't need time to feel some compassion. Yes, she she was upset, scared, angry after being strapped to that chair and having her mind invaded....But I'm willing to bet that what she felt was nothing compared to what Ren felt having Snoke after him since even before he was born. So yeah, where is her compassion? To make matter worse, she has compassion for anyone else, and only based on what they say. But the one person that she gets to really "see"....no compassion. And we know for a fact she saw a lot....I mean she learned that mind trick, you have to go deep to actually access someone's knowledge. So she picked what she needed, even though she did it unconsciously, and didn't care about the rest.

    But I actually like this....it means that Rey is a more complicated character than I thought.....Not just this perfect innocent girl who is always the best person in the room no matter what....
     
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  5. Klai Kenobi

    Klai Kenobi Rebel General

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    I really think they're cousins and her being Luke's daughter would be soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo bad ace!!!!! You kidding me?!
     
  6. Starchaser

    Starchaser Guest

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    Truth be told, I'm only half kidding. You can't have abuse in lack of a relationship....familial, romantic, professional, whatever. I don't know what's the dictionary definition of abuse, I didn't look it up, but this word is always used in the context of a relationship. And it always implies a betrayal of trust. The abuser is taking advantage of the trust of the abused, because their power comes from this trust. There is no trust, no commitment between Kylo Ren and Rey before she becomes his prisoner. You know what would have been abuse? If instead of abducting her he would gave sweet talked her into coming with him.... Made her trust him, feel safe... Then proceeded to strap her to that chair, making her feel betrayed and used. But he didn't, and I don't see why anyone would assume that he would abuse her if they were in a relationship. And I'm not talking about a redeemed Ren... I mean the way he is now. Do you think he would throw Rey into trees if, instead of trying to shoot him, she would be nice to him? Because the way I see it, as horrible as he is now, he lets her get away with everything. She steals Han's ship, murders his stormtroopers (not always in self defense)...and he only calls her friends traitors and thieves. He lets her get away with stuff that would enrage people who are seen as "good". So how is he an abuser? Because the way I see it, the only thing that would make him really mad, and violent, would be Rey stabbing him in his sleep. Yeah he's a professional murderer, but have we seen him around someone that he has a good relationship with? Someone that he cares about? No we didn't, and we can't just assume he'd slap Rey around for asking about the weather, that's insane. Look at it this way... If i go out and slap someone because I think this person did me wrong.... Am I an abuser? No, I'm just violent towards people that are not close to me... And then this person punches me about 5 minutes later.....Did we abuse each other? If we get to know each other better at a later time... Can we not have a relationship? Why, because we fought once? That would be ridiculous. There is no proof that we would lash out at each other for no reason, so what's the problem?
     
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  7. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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    All connection options remain on the table for me, including...

    upload_2017-2-27_0-5-15.jpeg

    to...

    upload_2017-2-27_0-5-47.png

    to... (avert your eyes NightAngel)

    [​IMG]

    and yes even:

    upload_2017-2-27_0-6-6.png

    You remind me of getting lost in Wikipedia's List of Common Misconceptions the other day and being surprised by this little factoid...

    "Pregnancies from sex between first cousins do not carry a serious risk of birth defects: 5–6%, similar to that of a 40-year-old woman, compared with a baseline risk of 3–4%."

    I think it's safe to assume that such pregnancies do carry a serious risk of exposure to lame behind-the-back jokes and banjo riff imitations though. :rolleyes:
     
    #87 Moral Hazard, Feb 26, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
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  8. Maximillian

    Maximillian Rebel General

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    Yeah this is a tough one. I see what you mean, and I agree with you in principle. if you're at war, if you're both soldiers then the conflict between you isn't 'abuse' its just violence. I mean, Boba Fett and Vader didn't 'abuse' Han when they put him in carbonite or tortured him, they did those things but no one would say 'Vader abused Han with the torture machines'.

    Thats not how a lot of people read the Rey-Kylo interrogation scene though. because A- Shes a woman, which leads more easily to drawing parralells between physical violence and abuse, and B-also the way the film is framed.

    I think the nature of violence depicted against/towards women on screen is more easily read as abuse than towards men. This is a tricky subject that could be the subject of essays.

    That said the way the interrogation plays out between Rey/Kylo is framed cinematically using what could be read (and have been) as sexual overtones. Him carrying her bridal style gets brought up a lot. The line he says 'I can take anything I want' his reveal of his human face and apparent compassion towards her, and the intense amount of eye contact they have in that scene.
    These things make it read differently from the Han/Vader Vader/Leia interrogation scene. so its valid to draw parallels between this scene and abuse, from a certain point of view.

    However I stand by the idea that they are enemies on two sides of a war, they are both warriors. so what Kylo Ren did was pretty normal by galactic standards.
    I don't think it was meant to mirror an abusive relationship as they aren't in a relationship at this point. I think the tension in that scene is supposed to show that they are equals but also simply to build a dynamic between them. If Kylo Ren had performed the interrogation as Vader did: with a mask on, with a torture device, then that would have been a cold scene. without any dynamism between the characters. People read a lot into this stuff. And its fine either way you interpret it but I think people need to understand that just because something comes off as 'abuse' to them it doesn't mean that is how the film makers intended it or even how other audience members will read it.
     
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  9. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    this needs to be placed on banner with letters ten feet tall.
     
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  10. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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    Agree 100%!
     
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  11. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    This article was brought to my attention by @RockyRoadHux. Worth a read:

    ttp://joons.tumblr.com/post/157556517790/no-rey-is-not-a-skywalker
     
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  12. Dark Cutie

    Dark Cutie Guest

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    Now you make me want to defend her...and that's just crap cuz she is so freaking self dependant she would hate it with the intensity of 1000 suns..lol...at least until she started trusting the person that defends her....but...here it goes...we deffinitelly can not dismiss her experiences...what she must have lived through up to this point...how many disapointments...betrayal of trusts by those closest to her...her freaking family abondened her with wtf Unkar Plut? What kind of an a*s of a parent does that?? And who knows what happened later...she may have had relationshops with people (not talking sexual or romantic so no need for anyone to look away) who let her down....and am not talking about superficial ones...but ones that were close and that she 'knew' really well....for me it is not hard to imagine that every mf person she trusted betrayed her....so her instinct now is attack first ask questions later....i mean...look at her relationship with finn...she attacks him...gets freaking angry for him taking her hand and presuming she needs his help to run...but he is so damn pathetic at that time that she needs to help him...and i guess that is what causes to feel compassion for him...as is the fight in the mf against tie fighter they fight through together and bond over....so...her compassion here is also not instantaneous...with han i think is more of an admiration and idealistic view she had of him: "Solo the smuggler" reading or hearing about his adventures was probably escapism from harsh reality for her...i bet she loved that he shot first....cuz Han was the untouchable...so he is her 'hero' from point zero...and her compassion originates from there...
    but Ren...eh...he doesn't need her...or her help...and he is strong...and troubled..relentless...like the tide...and pretty, no...alluring.... she damn well notices that when he takes the helmet off...and she has probably never felt that for a man...attraction...oh yeah...it is there in her eyes...i see it as i see the island...and..to make things worse...he is not just any man...a public enemy nr.1...we can't have that....i think her pride kicks in also...plus he made her mad as hell that she could not stop him 'reading' her...so...defiance too...who knows...maybe she feels compassion for him but fights it off willingly....reverts to her established behavioral patterns that give her security cuz have never failed her before...shoot first ask questions later...
    We'll see. First...who he is...then who she is.


    I totally agree. In fact...Ren is the only one (man) in the whole movie that doesn't patronize her. Or puts her down. Finn does it at the start. How is him dismissing her ability to run by herself better than with him holding her hand not offensive??? Ugh....Han also does it...first right after they first meet dismissing the possibility she is the pilot and even later, after handing her the gun.

    First.... *giggles* at your comment ;)

    Second.... these days i can see reylo only if Ren, you know...redeems himself...(but not in the eyes of the rebelion or whichever authority...but in his eyes) AND if Rey finds or own up to her compassion towards him...somehow...i have less faith in her than i do in kylo ren...which is weird cuz i see myself in both of them.


    I like how well thought your posts are. The key problem with the perception of her charachter IS that she is a woman...and not only a woman...a cute...innocent...big eyed puppy woman...that we see depicted as a cute helples kid done wrong also...and our protectorial (is this a real word? dunno :D) instincts towards her are triggered... that is enough to jump at the throat of all who wish to harm her....but hey the truth is...she is a very good fighter..she does not need our protection...she fends really well for herself...doesn't shy away from Han grade dirty moves..and everyone accepts that as normal...cuz she is a good guy....and still think her weaker...lol.
    But you know what triggers me personally in all this...condescension and patronizing of her character that lies beneath that desire to protect in the 'good samaritans' of this world. Back off Finns of this world...she can fight for herself...she is more than able...she is his equal....and just cuz she is a woman that does NOT mean she is weaker and in need of your protection...by wishing to protect her you devalue all the good feminism has brought to this world...lol...

    Seconded!!
     
    #92 Dark Cutie, Feb 26, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 26, 2017
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  13. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    Sure, but that goes both ways.

    I am inclined to read what the creator (JJ) called 'violent mind rape' (a very unfortunate parallel, yes) as abuse. And, yes, in Poe's situation as well. But, that is me, and since this is art, I think our readings of that scene are equally valid.
     
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  14. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Jedi General

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    Fifty Shades of Grey is rubbish. That's what most normal people think.

    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/fifty_shades_darker (rated R)
    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/fifty_shades_of_grey (rated R)

    The people that like it should feel bad about themselves. They aren't turning a kids and families franchise into this gutter trash. If anything the weirdo creepo sexual objectifiers of Rey and Kylo Ren are even worse than that franchise. Kylo Ren is a frequent murderer who works for evil.

    https://m.facebook.com/ashleycohagan/posts/10101640869471608

    J. J. Abrams: “When we brought [Daisy Ridley] in [to audition], I asked her to do this one scene – sort of this torture scene, very sort of intense – and she just blew my mind. She’s reaching this depth of struggle and tears are streaming down her face. I thought, this is unbelievable and I asked her to stop, gave her a couple of adjustments, do it again, and she just did it again. I thought, ‘Oh my god.'” (Secrets of The Force Awakens documentary – home video release April 5, 2016)

     
    #94 MagnarTheGreat, Feb 26, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
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  15. Obi-Wan Solo

    Obi-Wan Solo Force Sensitive

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    Waiting for somebody else to point out that there is no real proof that JJ Abrams has ever said this.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    and the "quote" is due to a Facebook post by someone who claims that someone she knows (who was under heavy medication) has heard the director say so - in any case that's a 3rd person account and more importantly is a wording that has never ever been corroborated by Abrams or anyone else. He has said it's a torture scene. That's it.

    BUT and far more importantly! Make up your mind people!
    If you think these two are related AND at the same time claim there are sexual undertones of any kind placed deliberately by the creator/director, then you need to address the elephant in the room - so you think that Disney and Lucasfilm deliberately made a scene where two actors were advised to play a sexually charged scene while knowing they will be revealed to be related???? Now wouldn't that be extremely disturbing if, as you claim, the scene is a "violent mind rape" as you claim it was meant to be?!

    [​IMG]

    Now let's do an exercise in logic.

    If you think there is any sexual undertones placed there deliberately then there are 2 options:

    - You either think that the sexual tension was placed there deliberately because something else will possibly happen going forth. They are not related and something might develop, in the future. (Reylo).
    - You think there is deliberate rapey vibe put there, but nothing romantic is planned. But also, they are related. (Eh, WHAT????)

    The 2nd is obviously quite disturbing. At least to me.

    *And no, Luke and Leia kissing is not "evidence" of a precedent. Their familial relationship was NOT established when that happened and things were retconned in hindsight.
    NO ONE now in the ST will deliberately make such inscest "slips" as we can be sure that at least they have the main relationships set up in advance or at least they must have made up their minds when they edited the movie. In any case, claiming there are intentional rapey vibes is disturbing with or without familial relationship.
     
    #95 Obi-Wan Solo, Feb 26, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
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  16. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Bit like this scene from another child's film where the "abuser" is actually acting out of love (unbeknownst to his master).


    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 26, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 26, 2017 ---
    Also worth noting that Ren feels everything Rey does when he proves her mind. Pain, both mental and physically.

    "Don't worry I feel it too"
    (Did he comfort Poe like that?).

    This isn't rape. This is a rather tame use of the force to try and get information from someone. However, were there KoR sexual undertones/chemistry between the two then we wouldn't be talking about it either. And as @Obi-Wan Solo mentiins above, would you prefer that's JJ intended that and knew they were related, you big freaks?! :p
     
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  17. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Niamor

    Niamor Rebel Official

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    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Snoke "You have compassion for her. I perceive the problem. It isn’t her strength that is making you fail. It’s your weakness."

    Snoke "It was neither poor strategy nor arrogance that brought down the Empire. You know too well what did.”

    Ren nodded once. “Sentiment.”

    “Yes. Such a simple thing. Such a foolish error of judgment. A momentary lapse in an otherwise exemplary life. Had Lord Vader not succumbed to emotion at the crucial moment—had the father killed the son—the Empire would have prevailed. And there would be no threat of Skywalker’s return today."


    It's clear for me now that Rey is the reason Kylo will return to the light, the sentiments he has for Rey will destroy Snoke/The First Order.
     
    #98 Niamor, Feb 26, 2017
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  19. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    by the grace of your training i will not....​
    Screen Shot 2017-02-26 at 2.17.07 PM.png
    ...i'm sorry, what was i saying?​
     
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  20. teltaru

    teltaru Clone Commander

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    Rape apologists in action:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    /s
    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
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