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SPOILER Everything wrong with MARVEL comics.

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Books & Comics + Legends' started by Ben_Kenobi, May 24, 2017.

  1. Ben_Kenobi

    Ben_Kenobi Rebel General

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    Hey guys,

    Before I jump into the discussion about new comics I want to give you heads up. This post isn't about random aggressive "fanboy" rants and bitching about something I personally dislike. I'd like to have a civil discussion looking at the pros and cons of MARVEL series and how others feel to it, particularly in comparison with the Dark Horse comics.

    As a side note, I'm collecting all of new MARVEL books and reading those concurrently with DH Legends titles s.a. "Dark Times", "Knights Of The Old Republic", "Tales Of Jedi", etc.

    First I wanted to talk about Dr. Aphra. [SPOILERS]

    I finished all 6 issues and I'm unimpressed. Furthermore, it's beyond me how a book of such quality is considered a new standard for SW comics. While the overall artwork was competent I found the lack of backgrounds irritating (esp. issue 1 with entire packages having characters drawn against white bk, or lazy CGI planets and space in later issues).

    The writing isn't much better here. Am I completely alone in feeling that most of the current MARVEL books have totally outlandish plots that don't mesh with SW? I find her droid sidekicks as silly as Jar-Jar's cartoon-like antics in Ep.I. Assassin' droids that talk blast and are trapped in the bodies of C3PO and R2D2 casing? But the most problematic aspect is the plot and characterization. It completely takes me out of experience reading Aphra's lines, making her sound like a cynical, sarcastic city girl, and not a scientist or a rogue. The plot seemed to attract me when Aphra and the team get to Yavin 4, with a promise of Massassi lore but it was nowhere to be seen. Instead she travels to a flying fortress with reactivating droids and a Sith/Jedi spirit in a crystal? Sounds like a really cheap rip-off from Dark Horse titles and not a lot of imagination on the writer's behalf.

    What do you guys think? Did anyone feel the same or am I missing something big here?
     
    #1 Ben_Kenobi, May 24, 2017
    Last edited: May 24, 2017
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  2. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi Sentinel - Army of Light
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    I also did not like the Captain Aphra series. 3PO and R2 murder droids are lame, Chewie clone, Indy/Tomb Raider ripoff; however, the Lando series and Star Wars ongoing, especially the OB1 tales have been rather good . Dark Horse handled the Star Wars series with much more class, better creative teams stories, and artist.
     
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  3. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I haven't read Aphra, but I've read all of Vader and most of Star Wars so far.

    I really liked Aphra in Vader, and I really liked the droids.

    I think the comics can be kinda clunky at times, but overall I really enjoy them.
     
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  4. Ben_Kenobi

    Ben_Kenobi Rebel General

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    When I read comics or watch movies I don't try hard to like or dislike them. I let the story speak for itself and make an impression on me.
    I just can't get into the droids from the comics. Two killers trapped in those corny, inefficient bodies doesn't cut it for me.
     
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  5. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi Sentinel - Army of Light
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    I've been collecting comic books for years, I went to art school, published 2 comics myself, so i love the medium. I love the Dark Horse comics legend run it was fantastic! I have a few Marvel Star Wars comics before the license went to DH. Currently, Marvel is doing a good job with the Star Wars comics, not as good as DH, but fairly good. I don't see the hype surrounding Captain Aphra though, and she is getting her own figure now I don't get it. Not fan of Captain Aphra, although I do pick up her series just out of curiosity.
     
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  6. Admiral Petty

    Admiral Petty Force Sensitive

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    I see potential in Dr Aphra more than anything. The whole evil/chaotic neutral Indiana Jones in space thing can work quite well. At this point though, they haven't really done enough with her to warrant all the love she's getting, at least not in my opinion. She isn't a bad character by any means, but I don't think she has really earned a spot as an iconic character at this point. I find the love that some seem to have for Sana Solo even more baffling at this point, as she is even more of a blank slate.

    As for the murderous droids, I absolutely love them. As for the bodies they are in, that just makes them better assassins. Also, consider the bounty hunter 4-LOM, he has a regular protocol droid body as well.

    As for the comics, at this point, I don't know that we can fairly judge right now. Dark Horse has a way larger back catalogue to judge at the moment.

    Another important thing to take into consideration is that Marvel is way more restricted in what stories they can tell compared to Dark Horse. With Dark Horse, they didn't have to worry about stepping on the toes of any future movies, because as far as they were aware at that point, there weren't going to be any future movies. This allowed them to be a bit more ambitious, even to the point of creating a series like Star Wars Legacy which was set well after all the characters from the movies had died off. It also allowed them to do more with the past as well, whereas at the moment the Story Group is keeping a lid on most details about the Old Republic prior to the films.

    Conversely, let's not act like everything Dark Horse put out was gold. I still cringe when I think about the awful idea to bring back the Emperor as a clone, it was one of the single worst things in the EU, and that was in Dark Horse's very first comic series.

    Still though, I will say that Dark Horse had a mostly solid track record. I own quite a few of their Star Wars series in omnibus or trade paperback form.

    As for Marvel thus far, the quality has varied a bit, although I can't say I've read anything truly horrible so far. The two weakest series thus far have been the Chewbacca mini series(the worst they've put out thus far) and the Princess Leia mini series(very bland storytelling).

    The ongoing Star Wars series tends to go up and down in quality. I think it may be time for a new writer on that one honestly. I have nothing against Jason Aaron, but I'm starting to doubt if he has the chops to tell a long form Star Wars story at this point.

    The Darth Vader series was mostly strong, with a wobble here or there. I think it brought a great deal of good stuff to the table, especially in its careful characterization of Vader himself. Overall I think it was an excellent series.

    The Aphra series has real potential, but I would say it's a bit lacking at the moment. They teased some great stuff with the Massassi temples and the Ordu Aspectu(too lazy to look up the spelling right now), but they failed to deliver much of anything satisfying on that front. We'll see how it fares during and after the Screaming Citadel crossover.

    As for the other continuous series right now, that being Poe Dameron. Eh, it's OK. It has moments of brilliance, but I think it is severely hampered by the fact that it is set in the ST era, and is therefore extremely limited in what stories it can tell. Honestly, I think most stuff set in the ST era is going to be limited right now. Once the ST wraps up, then I think we will see a lot more meaty stories being told in that time period.

    As for the mini series though, I honestly think they have been pretty strong(aside from the aforementioned Leia and Chewie series). The Lando and Han Solo minis in particular have been real highlights. I'm also enjoying the Darth Maul series at the moment as well.

    I think one of the biggest issues facing Marvel right now is that they need more writers and artists on their books. I think part of the problem is that, Star Wars aside, Marvel isn't doing so hot. DC is currently wiping the floor with them on the sales charts(the reasons for this are many, and frankly would require their own thread to parse out). Less sales on their main bread and butter titles means that they will have less resources to attract the best writers and artists, which in turn will bleed over to the Star Wars titles as well. Marvel has a history of working with some of the best writers and authors in the business, but a lot of their very best creators have moved on in recent years. I would seriously love to see guys like Matt Fraction and Ed Brubaker take crack at Star Wars, but they seem to have moved on at this point.

    I've mostly enjoyed the artwork, but I'm seriously tired of Salvador Larroca and his wonky faces and traced character poses. It's time for him to go IMO.
     
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  7. Finn is a Jedi

    Finn is a Jedi Rebel Official

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    I have enjoyed most of the Marvel comics. The main series has been consistently good with some interesting villains as well as new characters like Sana, it also does a good job of giving Luke a bit more knowledge of the force.
    The Vader comic was good too I liked that Tagge survived and continued as a thorn in Vader's side and I liked Inspector Thanothg, but I wasn't a fan of the Emperor's experiments like the Mon Cala Grevious-type, they just felt odd and I was glad when they were gone.
    Vader Down crossover played out much like a 4.5 movie would've with some really badass Vader as well as great moments for each of our main characters and some wonderful references.
    I haven't read the Dr. Aphra main series yet but I was indifferent toward her in the Vader comic but I loved 000 and BT, they are written so well and they embrace the fact that the are just homicidal version of 3PO and R2.
    The Lando comic is fantastic and does wonders for Lando and Lobot's characters.
    The Chewie comic is okay, the only amazing thing was they finally gave him the medal from ANH.
    Leia was alright but I liked seeing Nien Nunb and Evaan Verlaine was a decent new character.
    The Kanan comics gave some great depth to events just referenced in Rebels.
    The Obi Wan and Anakin comic's story was unnecessary but the relationship between the two at this early stage in Anakin's training is fantastic.
    The Han comic is a wonderful Star Wars/Firefly mix and showcases Han where the movie definitely should, in a race.
    Shattered Empire was pretty good and introduced us to Poe's parents who were fairly interesting, its also nice to see post-Endor stuff.
    I only read the first volume of the Poe comic and even though it delved into some weird territory it gave the supporting Resistance fighters some much needed characterization as well as giving us a cool FO villain other than the ones in TFA.
     
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  8. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi Sentinel - Army of Light
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    4-LOM would have been an excellent choice...
     
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  9. Supreme Leader Snooki

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    Currently reading only the stuff that interests me, which are the main Star Wars series and Poe Dameron and I finished Vader. I agree with a lot of what's being said, marvel needs to step up their game with the artwork and stories being told. I really loved Dark Horse comics and they really did some great things with the Star Wars property.

    I also want the main Star Wars series to get out of the time between A New Hope and Empire, I know it's a big gap of three years but I'm kinda growing tired of the time period. The one potentially fun story they should tell is from a throw away line Han said in Empire: "Well, the bounty hunter we ran into on Ord Mantell changed my mind." I want to see that in the main Star Wars comic because I want to see more of crime syndicates and bounty hunters and the planet Ord Mantell, I think it'll be fun!
     
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  10. Finn is a Jedi

    Finn is a Jedi Rebel Official

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    I have been saying this since the comic started but the way Han says it implies that it happen very close in time to ESB, that would be a great way to end the comic. Then they should relaunch it showing Luke's journey in constructing his saber and any training he does in the 6 months between ESB and RotJ. Also show the battle mentioned about Lando becoming a general, as well as the final arc being Lando going undercover at Jabba's and Leia killing the real bounty hunter she impersonates.
     
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  11. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi Sentinel - Army of Light
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    I believe I read a Marvel Star Wars comic before the license went to Dark Horse comics about Han running into the bounty hunter in Ord Mantell but I'm not entirely sure anyway thats legends territory now, they should updated it.
     
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  12. JV-24601

    JV-24601 Rebel Official

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    The main comic has been pretty strong, I don't think any of the arcs I've read so far have been failures for me.

    The Vader comic was excellent and at times downright chilling.

    The Lando miniseries was brilliant.

    I actually really liked the Han miniseries. It was interesting and quirky, and I thought it was plotted really nicely.

    The Obi-wan/Anakin miniseries was pretty decent.

    I'm greatly enjoying the Maul comic.

    Enjoying Poe for what it is. I love me some Poe and I'm always happy for more of him.

    I think I've read a couple issues of Aphra. It's got a goofy vibe to it that I immediately knew wasn't going to be everybody's thing. But I really enjoy it.

    Haven't read the Chewie or Leia miniseries.

    Haven't read Shattered Empire.
     
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  13. The Hero With No Fear

    The Hero With No Fear Resident Sand Hater

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    From the random chunks of the main Star Wars series that I have read, it is my favorite ongoing series and possibly also my favorite series. It is a believable story set not too long after Episode 4 and is like truly classic Star Wars.

    The Darth Vader series was also very good. Some parts or elements that I didn't like that kind of skirted on the realm of disbelief (well as far fetched as Star Wars can get.) and it got pretty dull here and there, but overall mostly good. I liked the tie-ins to the prequels as well, and seeing how far Anakin/Vader has fallen in Issue 24 was very powerful and probably my favorite issue of the series. (Outside of Vader Down.)

    Speaking of Vader Down, this was definitely one of my favorites. It was a nice tie-in between both series and again, very believable Episode 4.5 type material. Again, I liked some of the prequel tie-ins, as well as Vader's slaughtering of the Rebels in this comic fitting in very nicely with RO.

    Lando was good. Not great, but I liked it well enough. I can really hear Lando's voice when I read his lines and he definitely stole the show for me. Can't really imagine Lobot's voice though.

    Darth Maul is pretty good so far.

    Rogue One adaption is pretty good, mainly for the art and the flashbacks. Better than what I've heard about TFA comic, which is the only canon comic that I, for sure, know that I won't be reading.

    Poe Dameron is pretty good from what I've read so far and I'm excited to read more.

    C3PO was good. Kind of pointless, but does explain "the red arm."

    Doctor Aphra- Haven't read yet, seems good.
    Obi-Wan And Anakin- Also haven't read yet and am really looking forward to it.
    Kanan: The Last Padawan- Yet to read, will do soon.
    Shattered Empire- Yet to read, but still seems good.
    Han Solo- Might read it, might not. Dunno.
    Princess Leia- Same as above.
    Chewbacca- Really don't want to read this, but chances are that I eventually will.

    I am really excited for the new Darth Vader, Jedi of the Republic- Mace Windu, and the Cassian and K2SO comic, plus new issues from my favorite series'. The main problem with these comics, though, are the miniseries. They tell mostly pointless stories, which might or might not be good, but they're still ultimately pointless. Good reads, but they probably only make money for having popular characters on it. (Princess Leia, Han Solo, Darth Maul, etc.)
     
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  14. Finn is a Jedi

    Finn is a Jedi Rebel Official

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    Definitely read Han Solo, especially if you like Firefly/Serenity. It is a wonderful Han comic that is written exactly like he should be with amazing artwork and good story. Leia is alright, good moments for Leia as well as a decent new character who is retconned into ANH, and Nien Nunb gets a moment to shine. Chewbacca is another alright but not great one, the plot is the weak point but Chewie is good in it and it finally shows he got a medal at the end of ANH.
     
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  15. Ben_Kenobi

    Ben_Kenobi Rebel General

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    I thought Kanan is one of the best SW comics ever! The art is simply brilliant and the story is straight out of films!
     
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