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SPECULATION Is Luke Rey's Father? - The Evidence For and Against

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by master_shaitan, Feb 17, 2016.

?

Is Rey the daughter of Luke Skywalker

  1. Yes

    234 vote(s)
    36.2%
  2. No

    288 vote(s)
    44.6%
  3. Undecided

    124 vote(s)
    19.2%
  1. robotical712

    robotical712 Rebel Commander

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    He's also made it clear he had no idea what they did after they left. All of this is based off assumptions on his part and the tone of his statements completely changed after the movie actually came out (in fact, he pretty much stopped talking), so it's clear they kept the most important pieces of his treatment. We also have someone who knew Lucas and has been there the entire way (Pablo) stating his treatment wasn't completely scrapped.
     
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  2. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Jedi General

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    Take the time and read about the people at Lucasfilm have to say. Because George Lucas in 2015 to the present has said that he knows nothing about their internal plans for the Saga.

    [QUOTES] The Star Wars Saga
    [QUOTES] J. J. Abrams and the Original Trilogy Structure
    [QUOTES] Rey’s Status and Story Function
    [QUOTES] Words From Actors Before The Release of The Last Jedi
    [QUOTES] Words From Production Members Before The Release Of The Force Awakens
    [QUOTES] Words From Production Members After The Release Of The Force Awakens
    [QUOTES] Martin’s Answers To Questions
    [QUOTES] Hidalgo’s Answers To Questions
    [QUOTES] George Lucas


    Kathleen Kennedy: "George wasn’t a part of those development discussions, so it was a fairly natural process of evolution. It sounds like we ignored him but that’s not really what happened. […] the legacy characters play a significant role in this, and I would say and inside the balance that George was talking about to begin with. It was really much more to do with the specifics of the history of the saga. We changed the order of a few things, let’s put it that way. We didn’t make some wholesale change." (December 17, 2015)
     
    #9342 MagnarTheGreat, Jun 22, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
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  3. Canadian Ronin

    Canadian Ronin Rebel General

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    Nothing in there counters the words of the man saying they did something different then what he would have done and what they gave him.

    As I said - this idea they are being guided by Lucas's vision or what he wrote before he is a myth. Abrams said it, Lucas said......
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 22, 2017, Original Post Date: Jun 22, 2017 ---
    He didn't stop talkined after he swa it, he stopped talked a week or two after, most likely have they spoke him and asked him to stop.

    And while he praised the movie he NEVER went back on his statements about them doing something completely different then his treatments.

    As for him not knowin what theya re doing - He declined to be interviewed for the Vanity Fair feature, but Kennedy said, "I talk to him and see him frequently. And I'm telling you, every time I say, 'Is there anything you want to know?' And he's like, 'No, no, I want to be surprised.'"

    If he were following his treatments, how would it be a surprise?
     
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  4. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Jedi General

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    Again, Lucas doesn't know what's happening.

    J. J. Abrams:
    (to George Lucas) “You tell me [about Darth Vader’s grandchildren], man. You made all this **** up.” (October 29, 2015)

    In other words: You made this story, George. So you tell me.

    Another alteration was that the Rey/Luke interacting and mentorship was going to happen in Episode VII in Arndt's early version (Lucas selected Arndt) , but it was delayed to Episode VIII.

    Being delayed doesn't mean disregarded and ignored. Same for Rey's parentage.
     
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  5. Canadian Ronin

    Canadian Ronin Rebel General

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    And you have take this all as a whole - Abrams saying they decided to go in a different direction, Lucas saying they made up their own story, that they made a retro movie which is something he wouldn't have been interested in (and no you just ASSUME that wuld have all been window dressing stuff).

    And of all the stuff you've gone and quoted - NOT ONCE have you given us something that says "we used Georges draft as a basis" or "this is still Georges story" or anything like that. But we have them saying the opposite.

    And a joke on a youtube video..........if thats your evidence you've already lost.

    I agree delayed doesn't mean disregarded - but to make that claim you need to prove Lucas 1) Created Rey & 2) Invisioned Rey as Lukes daughter.
     
  6. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Jedi General

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    Rayne Roberts, Lucasfilm Story Group: (51:55) “When we were developing the character of Rey, there were a couple of things that were really important to us. The fact that she was a woman was always was never a question. A female heroine was a key component in the story that brought a lot of our leading creators in without hesitation and everyone was excited about that idea. In fact, it was something that was important to George Lucas. So, it was also really important to us that she be capable, confident, technically-skilled, quick-thinking, and self-sufficient because these were attributes that would propel her through her journey in the story. And I’d like to add that we would have given these attributes to Rey had she been a male character, too, and they weren’t specific to her being a woman, but we were just very interested in telling a story of a young person who had to survive on their own for quite some time and because of that had developed a grittiness and an expertise to ensure her survival.” “We’re incredibly thrilled because the main protagonist of our next film – our next standalone film Rogue One: A Star Wars Story – is also a woman.” (May 18, 2016)

    Those are some examples of what they've claimed. They're holding back anything else publicly in regard to the treatment because they're considered future content spoilers.
     
    #9346 MagnarTheGreat, Jun 22, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
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  7. Canadian Ronin

    Canadian Ronin Rebel General

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    Your first tweet is about LUcas and the EU, so its meaningless.

    Rey was created by George AND the screen writers that follow. Certainly not his vision (I certainly wouldn't call Rey someone who wants to become a Jedi for example). And you just proved they aren't following Lucas's vision in regards to Kylo, and who knows what else.

    Until you have something that contridicts - "The ones that I sold to Disney, they came up to the decision that they didn't really want to do those," he told Cinema Blend earlier this year. "So they made up their own. So it's not the ones that I originally wrote." - all you've done is build yourself a nice Myth here.
     
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  8. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Jedi General

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    George Lucas: “The original saga was about the father, the children, and the grandchildren. I mean, that’s not a secret, anyway, it’s even in the novels and everything. And then the children were in their 20s and everything and so it wasn’t [The] Phantom Menace again. […] I have no idea what they are doing.” (April 2015) “This time it’ll be very thrilling, because they’re doing kind of a different story, and so I don’t know what the story is. I don’t know anything about it.” (April 2015)

    Lucas can't actually know what is and what isn't different without knowing what Lucasfilm internally had laid out for 7-8-9 which he claims he doesn't know.

    [​IMG]
    Thea and Skyler AKA Kira and Sam concept art

    Skyler/Sam evolved into Finn and Kylo Ren. One took the heroic male lead aspect. The other took the grandson of Darth Vader aspect.

    Thea/Kira became Rey. They made who she is a mystery instead of marketing her as the granddaughter of Darth Vader and delayed the reveal past Episode VII (this is my great reasoned guess).

    Kathleen Kennedy: “George [Lucas] was so clear as to how that works. The canon that he created was the Star Wars saga. Right now, Episode Seven falls within that canon. The spin-off movies, or we may come up with some other way to call those films, they exist within that vast universe that he created….There is no attempt being made to carry characters (from the standalone films) in and out of the saga episodes. Consequently, from the creative standpoint, it’s a roadmap that George made pretty clear.” (January 17, 2014)

    Kathleen Kennedy: “I talk to [George Lucas] and see him frequently. And I’m telling you, every time I say, ‘Is there anything you want to know?’ And he’s like, ‘No, no, I want to be surprised.’” (Vanity Fair magazine – May 2015)
     
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  9. Canadian Ronin

    Canadian Ronin Rebel General

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    Yes movies develop. You've done a good job proving this.

    What oyu haven't done is provided EVIDENCE that Lucas's comments about themg oing in a different direction then what his story was is wrong.

    Your quote from Lucas - Iw ant to be surprised - wouldindicate they aren't using his story, cause he would he be surprised by something he wrote? And your comments above the picture ALSO prove what I'm saying - "This time it’ll be very thrilling, because they’re doing kind of a different story, and so I don’t know what the story is. I don’t know anything about it" - Because THEY AREN'T USING HIS VERSION OF THE ST.

    The comment I first replied too - "Rey's legacy determines the story of the entire trilogy. If they changed it, then they're not sticking with George's vision like they said they are." - well Lucas has said (both in quotes I've provided AND ones you have) that they changed his story, its not his "vision". So ......... nice talking to you, I guess...........
     
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  10. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Jedi General

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    The ironic stupid thing about all this^ is this:

    George Lucas didn't adhere to his own treatments for the previous Star Wars episodes for the OT and PT. He changed his mind all the time. Had he directed VII and/or the rest of the ST, he would not have precisely followed his own treatments to the letter because his own personal history reflects that of a man who changes his mind all the time.

    But Lucasfilm has claimed they are taking what he wrote and have worked it into the story.
     
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  11. Canadian Ronin

    Canadian Ronin Rebel General

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    There is a big difference between changing your mind, and someone else ignoring what you wrote and doing their own thing. The form still = your vision and the latter doesn't.

    have they? You haven't shown that. In fact you've only shown things that back up what I've said.
     
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  12. robotical712

    robotical712 Rebel Commander

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    How on Earth does this back up what you said?

    That's the president of LucasFilm talking.
     
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  13. Canadian Ronin

    Canadian Ronin Rebel General

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    they changed his work, they didn't make "his vision" of the ST. She is down playing the level of change, which Lucas then blows out of the water.
     
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  14. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    Star Wars is George Lucas. We won't know how much of this story is his until it's over, but he's a notorious control freak so I imagine if they kept most of his story he'd be upset they didn't keep enough.
     
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  15. Canadian Ronin

    Canadian Ronin Rebel General

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    When you have to twist this - "The ones that I sold to Disney, they came up to the decision that they didn't really want to do those," he told Cinema Blend earlier this year. "So they made up their own. So it's not the ones that I originally wrote." - Into meaning they kept most of what wrote, its time to re-evulate your view of the situation.
     
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  16. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    It's also time to re-evaluate your situation when you interpret "I imagine if they kept most of his story he'd be upset they didn't keep enough" into meaning "they kept most of what he wrote."
     
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  17. robotical712

    robotical712 Rebel Commander

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    Ironically, by adhering to his vision, they're more restricted than Lucas was going from ANH to ESB. Making Vader Luke's father completely changed the type of story being told.
     
  18. SKB

    SKB Force Sensitive

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    LFL: 'All your Skywalker are belong to us.'
    ;)
     
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  19. Hannibal41

    Hannibal41 Clone Commander

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    We are definitely scraping the bottom of the barrel for discussion topics now, it will be so nice to finally have this question answered (especially if the answer is the one you are hoping for).
     
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  20. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    Honestly to me, the point is: what's different? Because, I believe Pablo and others when they say the are following some George ideas, but I also believe him when he says they are going to do something different.
    And truth to be told, as far as we know, @MagnarTheGreat is right, George's main idea has always been (from the 80es) a ST with a brother and sister.
    At first, it was Luke and his sister (not Leia, because she was not supposed to be Anakin's daughter), then we have the comics and novels he spoke about and thus Luke and Leia (with Luke turning to the dak side, the Dark Empire serie, and Leia pregnant with a profetized child) and the Solo twins stories (plus Anakin Solo and Ben Skywlaker).
    So yes: it was always about a brother and a sister and the sister playing the key role.

    Now, we've got Rey and she's the female jedi George always wanted and it's easy to assum she's one way or another Anakin's grandaughter.
    One of at least the two grandchild (the light one - a woman - and the dark one - a man).
    It works.

    But, getting closer in time to TFA....
    the Jedi Killer, in George's view wasn't Kylo or Anakin's grandson.
    In addition: if Kira/Sam and or Thea/Skyler were them both (in George's view) Anakin Skywlaker's grandchildren, Luke and/or Leia should have lost 2 children...
    It's hard to believe they've lost one (Rey), two is too much.
    I don't know.... but perhaps at that stage there was just one grandchildren and that became Kylo/Ben.

    Or maybe the differnce is that they kept the female jedi, but not as someone related by blood to the Skywalker. Perhaps, that's the difference.
    That's why I believe there's still the chance that Rey is not a Skywalker.
    The "grandchild" may be only Kylo but they kept the idea of a joung woman on the path to become a Jedi.

    EDIT:
    I was watching again this one:


    I haven't noticed before how different 2 answers are.
    That about Sidius and Plagueis "creating" Anakin (at 20'), and that about Sidius's role in Padme death (at 28').

    In the first case, he's preatty vocal: he says "all the clues point to this" and then he explain his theory. A "theory" but... he gives away his idea.
    When it comes to Padme, he does not.

    I believe in the first case, that's something he and others discussed with George, in the second case no.
    The question is, if so, if they discussed the issue of Anakin's birth with George, is this something that that will be addressed only in the comics, novels, etc... or is something that will be addressed in the ST? In the latter case, how, if the main character is Rey?
    I'm saying this, because, I really believe, if this is a 9 movie saga, we have to look at it all.

    Or it's just the Skywalker family saga

    ST- Anakin
    OT- Anakin, Luke + Leia (father and children)
    ST. Luke, Leia, Ben/Kylo... and Rey (children and grandchildren)

    Or all the saga is still - somehow - Anakin's Saga ...
    And perhaps every trology is one of the 3 acts of the hero (the Chosen One) journey
    and the answer about who Rey is has to make sense according to this.
     
    #9360 lealt, Jun 25, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
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