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DC Extended Universe

Discussion in 'Film' started by Echo-07, Jul 27, 2014.

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Which upcoming DCEU movies are you most excited for?

  1. Superman

    4 vote(s)
    15.4%
  2. The Batman

    6 vote(s)
    23.1%
  3. Wonder Woman 2

    3 vote(s)
    11.5%
  4. The Flash

    4 vote(s)
    15.4%
  5. Aquaman

    3 vote(s)
    11.5%
  6. Cyborg

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Green Lantern Corps

    2 vote(s)
    7.7%
  8. Batman Spin-Offs (Nightwing/Batgirl/Joker & Harley)

    1 vote(s)
    3.8%
  9. Villain-Based Movies (Suicide Squad 2/Gotham City Sirens/Black Adam/Deathstroke)

    1 vote(s)
    3.8%
  10. Other (Justice League 2/Justice League Dark/Shazam)

    2 vote(s)
    7.7%
  1. TheBBP

    TheBBP Jedi Commander

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    Still looks better than Steppenwolf.
     
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  2. NotQyteNeo

    NotQyteNeo Force Sensitive

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    Saw Justice League last night. I really loved it - just a fun time watching them in action. The story did seem forced in places. And this is just as I had feared. With WB hacking it down to under 2H and Whedon trying to make it an MCU film, I am in agreement with the many out there who want Zack Snyder's un-hacked version. CGI Steppenwolf could have been better, but it wasn't a problem for me. I'd love to get an extended cut that fills in the story holes sometime down the line. It could have been better but still a very enjoyable film that I will go see again probably over the long weekend. Where I'd give Ragnarok about an 8.3, I give JL a 7.8
     
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  3. Grand Master Galen Marek

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  4. Grand Master Galen Marek

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  5. NotQyteNeo

    NotQyteNeo Force Sensitive

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  6. TheBBP

    TheBBP Jedi Commander

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    I felt that too. It felt truncated. Like some was skipping a good bit of exposition so that we could get to the next action seen quicker. I feel like they would be doing themselves and the fans a service with a longer cut of the film.

    Yeah, and this is why Affleck is one of the best Batman performers. I like him a lot better than Christian Bale. He just seems to fit this role almost perfectly. From the moments when he is talking to Alfred and philosophizing about what Superman means to the world to his dry, self-deprecating humor.

    I still think that there are a lot of flaws to overcome and I believe that they could and should have done better with these characters, but it does have MUCH potential to be a great cinematic universe... IF they jettison Suicide Squad.
     
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  7. Admiral Petty

    Admiral Petty Force Sensitive

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    So I finally got a chance to watch Justice League the other day, and I have to say, I actually enjoyed it. This surprised me somewhat as I still consider BvS a dumpster fire.

    Don't get me wrong, the film had all kinds of issues like pacing problems and what was probably the most forgettable villain I've seen in a superhero movie since Thor 2. The cast of the movie made up for it however. They were all likeable and had great chemistry together. More importantly, Superman actually felt like Superman.

    I'd give it a 7.5 out of 10.
     
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  8. TheBBP

    TheBBP Jedi Commander

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    I would love to see a cut of the film that wasn't so truncated. More exposition would have been great. Still, that CG villain needs a Special Edition revamp.

    Sadly, JL did not have a good holiday weekend. https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhu...ntastic-beasts-comparisons-moot/#4ef6635a48f5

    To preface, the writer of this article likes the film and gave it a good review.

    "So enough of the qualifiers, then, because the math says what it says. Let's be very blunt and honest about what's happening: Justice League has the lowest domestic opening weekend of the entire DCEU, and the lowest domestic opening weekend of any live-action superhero movie in 2017 except Logan -- which, by the way, only fell $5 million shy of Justice League's domestic opening. Justice League also had the lowest domestic first Monday of the entire DCEU, and the lowest domestic first Monday of any live-action superhero film this year except Logan, which it only beat by a couple of million bucks.

    Many fans trumpeted the film's domestic 41% rise on Tuesday, but that's a highly misleading and pointless argument for a few key reasons. First of all, 41% sounds like a big number, except the literal dollar amount was just $3 million, so let's not ignore the context in favor of big-sounding percentages that belie what's going on. Second, the reason for that jump on Tuesday is simply that North American schools began dismissing children for the Thanksgiving holiday starting Tuesday, and then each subsequent day of the week had a larger percentage of schools dismissing for the holiday as well. Notice, though, that the daily box office for the movie didn't continue to climb.

    And that's where the story for Justice League is now really starting to become clear. You've probably heard some YouTubers and fans pointing to Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them as a hopeful example of how Justice Leagueis actually performing well -- so this story goes, anyway -- and has a chance to top $800 million worldwide. Beware false hopes, though, because the comparison was already deeply flawed to begin with, and now this weekend has shattered that wishful thinking."...

    "With roughly $750 million worldwide being the "break even" point for Justice League, a run equal to Fantastic Beasts would still only result in $64 million supposed "profit," which must then be split in half since theaters keep around 40-50% of global ticket sales. The remaining $32 million would then have to take out any backend point for the film's stars and filmmakers who had contracts guaranteeing a percentage of the box office. Let's be generous and take just $5 million for that backend column on the spreadsheet, leaving $27 million to be divided up among the film's investors and distributors. Remember the opening of the film, when you saw all of those various company logos? Yeah, they all get a slice of the dwindling $27 million pie."

    If you think that's the sort of results major studios and investors find acceptable after spending years developing a project, waiting more than a year for it to be completed and released, and investing hundreds of millions of dollars to make it happen, then you need to think again."...

    "What that means for the future, it's still too early to know. And of course, the foreign box office could wind up higher than expected, with stronger holds than expected. If Justice League can hold at 50% drops every week for the rest of its entire run, and if it remains in theaters for another two months, and if international receipts account for 70% of its worldwide cume instead of just 60-66%, then it's technically possible for the film to finish near $850 million. In other words, if everything stops going wrong and instead starts going as well as possible from now on, then the best-case scenario could get it to $850 million.

    But that isn't going to happen, and there's little evidence to give anyone reason to expect it or hold out hope for it. The more realistic decent-case scenario (meaning an average run from here on out) would put Justice League at around $730+/- million, and it's entirely reasonable to feel such a number is possible and likely. However, I fear the truth is that the most likely moderate-case situation is a finish in the $700 million range, and a bad-but-not-worse-case in the $650 million range."

    There is a lot more to be read at the article, but this is not looking good. Do you folks think that this will cause WB to re-evaluate their plans?
     
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  9. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Oh god no. Please no more exposition. I already can't believe they gave Gal Gadot the role of Exposition Woman instead of Wonder Woman in a movie with Ezra Miller, JK Simmons, Ben Affleck, Ciaran Hinds and Jeremy Irons. What's next, Justice League 2 with Mamoa as Exposition Man? Blech.

    *we now pause this post for another dialogue about Mother Boxes because we never really explain them clearly or give you a reason to care other than "Oh look Atlanteans! Oh look Amazons!" so excuse us while we continually explain them but also retcon some stuff from BVS*

    The movie should have been longer, but that's also their own fault for choosing a storyline that had no business being explained and solved in ONE MOVIE. So even if this was closer to the BVS 3 hour run, it would probably still feel like you were missing something.

    I hate to bring this back to Marvel, but they should have (duh) followed how Marvel is doing the gauntlet with the stones.
    Steppenwolf literally came down and just took that blast. What the hell was the hold up? Those boxes have been around longer than Superman has been alive. Why the hell did he wait so damn long?

    Any who...

    From a business perspective, a "Special edition" or director's cut of Justice League would be brutal for WB. I have no doubt the fact that they keep releasing those hurt Justice League. Why pay money for a movie in theaters if you know the studio is:
    1. Just going to release a longer version on home video in 6 months.
    2. Clearly not giving you what is the best cut of the film in the theater.

    It's a ridiculous business model and should be stopped.

    I want a Superman cut, where it starts with JL Superman, leads to the Doomsday battle, death of Superman, cut to his rebirth, then go into the rest of BVS and MOS stuff. So he becomes the bitter prick AFTER he dies.
     
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  10. Grand Master Galen Marek

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  11. Pomojema

    Pomojema Ayatollah Of Rock-&-Rolla
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    Short answer: Not really, if only because their current plans are comparatively modest to what they were originally going to do.

    Long answer: They were already going to treat 2018-2019 as a sort of pair of "transition" years in order to get things adjusted from the "Snyderverse" to the "Johnsverse" for lack of a better term. As I've said before, The Batman and Wonder Woman 2 will be reliable hits for WB, and while Aquaman is comparatively a risk, James Wan is a really good director and there are absolutely no signs that the studio isn't confident with his film at this point, especially considering that Momoa's Aquaman is widely popular with audiences. In the meantime, I doubt that Shazam! will be particularly expensive (and, like Wan ahead of him, David F. Sandberg has a promising career) so the movie won't need to make a lot to profit, and Suicide Squad 2 has a better idea of where it needs to go (oh, and Dwayne Johnson's Black Adam is going to be in it, meaning that a sequel that didn't need his brand of "Franchise Viagra" is getting it anyway), and it isn't being rushed, which is basically where all of the first movie's major problems stem from. So those are five movies that should all do well, with at least four of them being met with favorable critical reception.

    But I do think that Justice League underperforming is still going to have repercussions (from where I'm seated, the movie shouldn't have trouble reaching $700M based on a strong overseas presence; it ought to reach $600M a little over a week from now, at the current rate). I think, if anything, this means that they'll hold off on the "riskier" projects (IE: a Green Lantern reboot without properly reintroducing the character in another movie) and focus on more solo movies - all of which will have more modest budgets than any of the movies of Zack Snyder's trilogy. A Deathstroke film, for instance, was set up by the second post-credits scene of Justice League, and they have a star attached and the director of the two The Raid movies interested. I suspect that The Batman will pave the way for Nightwing and Batgirl even if it's not the primary intent of that movie.

    I don't believe for a second that they'll take the "SHUT. DOWN. EVERYTHING." route of approaching things and instead work on continued course-correction. Kevin Tsujihara, the executive that's made some controversial decisions about these movies (IE: the two-hour mandate for Justice League), will likely be out once the AT&T merger happens (and despite the legal drama going on, I think it will). I don't see them abandoning the setting at all considering the amount of work put into it, especially since the consensus is that things are turning around in a good way for the company even if there are still clear issues that need to be addressed.
     
    #991 Pomojema, Nov 27, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
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  12. Talon Karrde

    Talon Karrde Rebel Official

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    Ok, so, I Finally saw Justice League yesterday.
    ...
    It feels like the phantom menace. There's a lot of stuff to like in it's peices.. but assembled together it just feels malaised in the septic depressive reality of the Snyderverse. That tone fit well with Snyder's watchmen-style questioning approach. Batman prison rape; that's what it's designed for. It does not do good with a batman sanitized to pg standards. Yet they permitted Snyder to proceed with the same tone.. A tone that Wheedon could not escape himself without breaking the film.
    My armchair: Instead of getting Doug Limon to do JLD, he should have been heavily courted to abandon Gambit for JL itself. Snyder should have been fired before a single reel of film was shot.
    But ultimately that may have failed too. And that's kind of where I find myself. No real clear answers. If we nuke the who thing, we lose Wonder Woman. I think a new DC universe needs to be built around her; she's their Tony Stark. I'm not sold on Aquaman.. and it will be 13 months before he can make his case. Flash was well done, the problem is that we will likely lose Teller along with Affleck. Cyborg is fine and I liked his character.. the only issue is too many brooders on the team already. Also.. a lot of power overlap. Cyborg's jacking batman's stuff, Clark just op's everyone else.
    I thought the best sequence didn't feature any of them. It was the amazon scene. I guess I would have to give "I'm a believer" the best scene WITH a superhero in it.. but even that brings up another problem. Okay, so these 'implied christian' terrorist want to revert man to medieval times so the big bag aliens will go away. They've decided that blowing up 4 city blocks will do the trick. Now, never mind that Clark and Zod did just that ~2 yrs earlier and it didn't seem to work.. but what on earth are these guys wearing!? Real terrorist, irregardless of nature, don't dress like John Steed. I mean was the tactical store closed but B. Croft and Bull wasn't? All this brings me to the biggest unspoken problems with these films.
    God. From Jor-el's prophesy in MoS to Diana's "look to the sky" comment concluding JL, equating superheroes to religion has been pervasive. "Ramses." That vignette.. where the white supremacist (again, dressed more like a mob soldier) kicks the shopkeeper's goods.. what's causing this? The lack of Superman. The lack of a diety; it's "Left Behind." It's not just dumb.. it's a turnoff. The best DCU film, Wonder Woman, kept man at "arms length" of theological debates. This is policy for the MCU.
     
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  13. Pomojema

    Pomojema Ayatollah Of Rock-&-Rolla
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    Remember how I mentioned this WB executive in my previous response? My HeroicHollywood boss Umberto Gonzales is saying that he's a big factor in why Justice League ran into a bunch of issues during production. Case in point, they didn't choose to delay the movie to 2018 simply because he wanted a bonus.

    Ugh. It's safe to say that he'll be out soon. Hopefully, WB-AT&T find a new executive who is much friendlier to the needs of CBM creators, because it seems likely to me that the issues have less to do with the people who were working on the other movies in the series and more to do with foolish decisions of the the higher-ups.

    Anyway, I enjoyed the movie quite a bit (seriously, despite my grumpy tone in this post, I thought the movie was a complete joy to experience once it really got going), but honestly, there was no excuse for them not to push it to March 2018 after Zack Snyder's family tragedy in order to give Joss Whedon the time he needed to revise the movie, along with a runtime that would have given more room for the film to breathe.
     
    #994 Pomojema, Nov 29, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
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  14. Talon Karrde

    Talon Karrde Rebel Official

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    Well, looking at their schedule.. I think stay the course is best option. I know a lot of people declared that this movie would determine the success of the new regime; I disagree. JL is the dying fires of the old regime. This disaster was preloaded into this films schedule. If they were willing to hold off, give Geoff maybe 4-6 months prepro prior to JL going principal.. then i'd hang it on the new regime. They got lucky with SS, this time their luck ran out.
    But as for now.. Aquaman in 13 months, Cyborg 2019, WW2 2020. Somewhere in time is batgirl, Gotham Sirens, JLD, SS2.. all in preproduction sans Aquaman. Which means all of it can be reworked to fit Geoff's vision. Sadly that means we won't see anything from the new regime that isn't a hole plugger job until 2019. Maybe for the best.. a reset period has been perscribed by many. We'll see if it works. But as much optimism as I have, let's not kid ourselves. We've probably already seen the best DC film this decade.:(
     
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  15. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    The movie that will save DCEU - BATMAN NINJA.



    Batman Ninja is a Japanese co-production where Batman finds himself transplanted from Gotham to feudal Japan. Directed by Junpei Mizusaki.
     
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  16. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    TMNT already did it.
     
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  17. SlugmanAttacks

    SlugmanAttacks Rebel Official

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    Will watch! HAHAHA
     
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  18. Bendak Starkiller

    Bendak Starkiller Force Sensitive

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    Did anyone hear watch the Teen Titans Judas Contract movie?
     
  19. Pomojema

    Pomojema Ayatollah Of Rock-&-Rolla
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    This isn't a DCEU thing. This is one of DC's animated movies - and those are just fine where they are.

    Right now, the DCEU doesn't need "saving". It needs fixing, and they've made some strides toward doing that (Joss Whedon! Matt Reeves! Patty Jenkins! James Wan!). I think the real issue came with the initial plan presented by the executive Kevin Tsujihara, based on the account I shared earlier in this thread: he had plans to get a bunch of movies out per year, but then he decided not to bother with overseeing changes to the one that served as the launchpad for future films (a terrible decision by any stretch of the imagination). Because this caused said movie to be incredibly divisive, there were overcorrections done on Suicide Squad (which made the movie into something it wasn't meant to be instead of correcting some of the issues that were already there) and similar issues faced Justice League (which was stupidly whittled down to two hours instead of a more reasonable 2 hours and ten to twenty minutes), albeit not on the same scale (though on a much bigger budget).

    WB can thank their lucky stars that Wonder Woman turned out to be a massive hit that everyone adored - and one that didn't need to be changed partway through filming - as it ensures that this setting will go forward. It might not be as profitable as it would be if the earlier movies were all crowd-pleasers, but there's still a lot more potential for the franchise than Sony's stupid Spider-Man villain spin-offs or Fox's X-Men spin-offs that nobody asked for (Multiple Man with James Franco? Really?). And I'm sure they're thankful that they have James Wan in their corner, as - again - Aquaman seems to have a lot of people impressed thus far.

    The original sin with this franchise, I feel, is that they put all their eggs in one basket and then set releases up before they could really assess what they needed to do with specific movies (again, Suicide Squad and Justice League being the big two that got changed as a result of Batman V. Superman: Dawn Of Justice being love-it-or-hate-it fare instead of a crowd-pleaser). I think it's honestly for the best that there was trouble with the productions of The Flash and The Batman, as their delays actually give the studio time to focus on what they need to do going forward. Tsujihara's probably on his way out after this, but whomever replaces him is going to need to be someone that has their fingers on the pulse of this brand - and someone who can really communicate with Geoff Johns.

    ...Anyway! I want to say that in spite of my continued anger at WB's management, I still really, really liked Justice League and I'm no longer worried about the DCEU from a creative standpoint like I was at the end of 2016. The issue I have is now solely on the management, and those worries should be fixed in the near future.
     
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