OFFICIAL NEWS A Lasting Record Of TLJ's Financial Performance.

Rather the same here in Japan really. Although SW got released in 77 here, SW series is more a movie industry event than a cultural one.

 

I'll remind you again that it wasn't written to be anti-fan, and that the director and producer of TFA was jealous of the script for TLJ and wished he had written it, so clearly he wasn't insulted by the film.

"It wasn't like I was reading all these theories online and being at my typewriter and going, "Ha! Ha! Gotcha!" It was me coming up with a story. I was writing purely from a personal reaction to "The Force Awakens", and what they were shooting." - Rian Johnson

"We weren't going for, 'Let's subvert a Star Wars movie.'" - Rian Johnson

"He (JJ Abrams) read it (TLJ script) and said something he never, ever says. He said, 'It's so good I wish I had written it.'" - Greg Gunberg (one of JJ Abram's closest and longest friends)

ScreamyinVainy

Feel good?

How about you just dislike something without needing to get diragotary about the artist. It's perfectly OK to dislike, or even hate, art without resorting to name calling the artist by rearranging their name.

And since we're on the topic, remember this one: Jar Jar Abrams.
Yeah, the film you keep referring to as a smash hit also had quite the backlash and hate.

So did the prequels; to the point that Lucas even expressly quit working on Star Wars because of it and even spoke about it.
"Why would I make any more, when everybody yells at you all the time and says what a terrible person you are?" - George Lucas

It's pretty much gone like this:
"George Lucas JJ Abrams Rian Johnson ruined Star Wars!"

It'll probably never stop. Everyone who touches the main saga so far has been yelled at, called names, and buckets of hate; including Lucas - who probably received more than all subsequent directors combined.

TLJ was the #1 film of 2017, and Lucasfilm and Disney are happy with the success they got out of the film.

You didn't like the film; that doesn't make it a financial problem. I didn't like AOTC, and it didn't smash the box office wide open (or even win #1 of the year...Spiderman did), but I didn't think it was a financial failure or an indication of anything wrong with Lucas.
It made its money back fine, and it was what Lucas wanted to deliver. I just happened to not like that Star Wars. Woopty doo.

Really? Is it?
AOTC took around a 30% drop from TPM's original run.

Your opinion of AOTC: "still think 2 was the best".

So...a 30% drop from a billion (TPM's first run, adjusted for inflation) for Lucas is fine, but a ~6% margin difference to that in a drop from over 2 billion (TFA) and it's the worst thing that's ever happened to Star Wars?
A ~36% drop from 2 billion is far better than a 30% drop from a billion (and that's adjusting for inflation to TPM so it crosses the billion mark on the first run).
36% drop from 2 billion: 1.28 billion.
30% drop from 1 billion: 700 million.

So...what...if TFA had made less and TLJ made the same amount and that % was 30 instead of 36, you would have been fine?
I somehow doubt it.

I think you just hated the film and enjoy smearing it any chance that you can get because you seem to need it to fail for your opinion to be valid...or something; not sure why.

Just let it go. It succeed, better than other Star Wars films you did like. It happens.

Cheers,
Jayson​

 

I'm slowly converting my bluray collection to 4k (I wait until the movies go on sale before I buy them though). Quality of digital movies isn't there yet compare to physical counter parts but the gap is getting smaller though. Terrible internet infrastructure is what really holding it back. There are tons of places in the US that dial up is the only option and I'm not talking about the desert.

 

See, I can't really speak to this and have to generally duck out of having an opinion because I get a really nice and fast internet connection where I'm at, and it doesn't hurt working for the service provider either, as I know pretty much everything there is about the network on every layer, so troubleshooting and optimizing was far easier for me than it probably is for some other folks.

I can stream UHD off of your pick of a service with zero problems.
I literally did a side-by-side optical pixel test between a bluray and a UHD stream of the same movie and the resulting difference was less than the human eye can notice at 5 feet of distance (and we're sitting more close to around 10 feet away with our 60inch).

But again, my situation isn't probably a fair comparison because I get gig throughput with 500 return, if I want. But I've even downgraded to 150mbps because I just really didn't need the 1 gig throughput. It was literally overkill in all tests, so why bother paying for it (it's use is best when you're splitting to multiple streams, and we don't really do that yet since the kids aren't old enough to really each stream separately on top of gaming, on top of a third stream...at most we have 2 streams running, and one of those will very likely be a lowfi cartoon on netflix for the kids)?

That all said, the general market has definitely moved the route of streaming over buying discs.
The amount of streaming services and devices we're now running is rapidly outpacing traditional methods and we're actually racing to keep pace with the demand for more and more streaming power. Most folks can spare 5 to 10 bucks, and they're only likely to watch a film once anyway, and even at that, they're probably half-ass paying attention to most films they're watching anymore while they whip out their phones or wonder around the house doing crap - or pause and wander off and come back and finish later, etc... I can't go into great detail, but you'd be amazed what the data shows on digital plays. Let me put it this way; a good - oh...hmm...I think I can say this much...I'll say that it's definitely more than a quarter of titles digitally played on the network go unfinished before the rental expires (even when the expiration is days long).

Meanwhile, the binge watching of TV shows is just a massive knee jerk in service haul. Folks may watch films poorly, but they absolutely consume the crap out of multi-season TV streaming in massive volume; even when most everyone may consider it "garbage" - it's consumed just because there's a pile and there's "another" - the addiction and the ease, especially with auto-play, is very alluring.

Discs are cool, and I still buy them (rarely, but I do), but they are definitely not what anyone's jumping for.
I mean, retail stores are dropping prices within a week on high-end discs down to $20 a copy over a weekend to try to motivate movement and yet I'll see the kiosk still pretty full by the end of the sale. That didn't use to happen 10 years ago; 10 years ago (back when I part-time worked a second job in retail), it was really common to apologize for being out of something and people asking about shipment schedules.
Now? Meh. All it likely does on the average is remind passing customers that they should rent that tonight.

Keep in mind; most people don't have the top-end gear, and most people don't know the first damn thing about top-end visuals or sound.
They buy $100 HDMI cables because the package says it's worth it; they buy the biggest TV that has an HD stamp on it that doesn't go screaming over their credit limit.
When I worked in that retail all those years ago, it wasn't the top-end TV's that made up the largest bulk of our sales. It was the "just a few notches better than garbage" that made the largest bank collectively (back then, that was a Vizio - before Vizio started making half-decent screens), but really people could care less.
They don't know the difference between 1080p and 1080i...hell, I've had pretty long conversations with people about how 720p is better than 1080i (we're talking ESPN here) and that's why it's being broadcast at 720p and even though they sit there and walk through it nodding their head, at the end they still demand that their personal reception of that channel broadcast result in 1080i because 1080 is more than 720....*sigh*
OK, fine. Flip. Enjoy your lower quality.
*marks account with note indicating that the customer demanded the degradation*

So, while I hear you about the quality issue, I don't think - on the whole - the general market actually cares.
They just go for whatever someone suckers them into accepting as "best" for what they want to spend, and that's pretty much the end of it - whatever buzz word is out there; they buy that device, but then they cram lower quality services down it because - and trust me on this... - most consumers think the TV magically makes all services that high quality - not the playing device or stream. "My TV is 4K, why does my cable look like old standard def?" "What channel are you watching?" "23" "OK, well, that's the local news station and they only broadcast in low standard definition; not 4K" "I don't believe that for a moment; I want to return this TV, and I"m taking my business somewhere where they don't lie." *sigh*

Cheers,
Jayson

 

A whole $800K?

I'll assume you meant $800 million. At which point some people at Lucasfilm need to start updating their LinkedIn profile, if they are actually expecting it can't even make Batman v Superman money. Jesus. If its that bad, they might as well give it the real kiss of death and use it to declare a big write-off.

That would be a 20% decline from its direct predecessor Rogue One(the first of the 'A Star Wars Story' films), and a loss of $500 million from its actual predecessor TLJ. And given the massive cost overruns due to bad original director casting by the producers, and having to essentially make the film twice, likely means that scenario is at best break-even... likely they lose money. And the fact that they achieve parity with the DCU further damages the brand from being considered top-tier by association. All this in the wake of IW, which could gross 3 times that 'expected' amount.

HAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHHA. Star Wars movies, in this decade, no matter how bad they may be... have been over a billion dollars. You're claiming it'll miss *that mark* by 20%?! That THAT is the expectation?! If that's the expectation, they're already factoring in Massive Damage done to the brand(likely via their metrics gauging the much-lower interest in the IP) by Rainy Johnston's debacle. I was Half Joking when I said the next stop would be DCU money. If that's their actual expectation, that the first May release of a live-action Star Wars film in 13 years will go well below a billion... just wow. I can't be more blown away atm.

A film is not gauged as a success or failure by its ability to meet expectation, when the expectation is a ridiculously low amount for the product.

You're basically saying about Solo... I expect you to fall on your face. And HOHO you did... SO SUCCESSFUL.

You're apparently sooooo right... I didn't have my facts straight. See... in this decade the ASSUMPTION was that a Star Wars movie, particularly the first MAY release in 13 years, would make at least a billion dollars. Just... damn! I don't think you really realize what you're saying here and how bad a number that would be. Its fine to make that much... unless the company invested $300-400 million(depending on advertising and final budget) like Disney did with Solo. They pop $800 mil after IW and BP(in comparison to cost, BP wasn't full freight) went large, and investors are going to be all over them like ticks.

Regardless of how well Marvel is covering for their debacle, nobody is going to want a premiere IP that the company paid $4 billion for ruined. That's not how business works. Divisions carry their weight, or they get re-organized into something that can.

I've always said TLJ made money. It just didn't make the money it should have, and likely caused collateral damage to Solo(which you are confirming that it did with these low 'expectations'). You also do realize BP was far cheaper to make and market than TLJ.. right? And Star Wars has 40 years of buildup with a MASSIVE(although apparently getting a lot smaller) fanbase and their last movie featuring two of the big three OT characters, including the long-awaited 35-year return of Luke Skywalker to the franchise? My assumption was anywhere from $1.7 billion on the low end to sky was the limit if they stuck the landing. For it to only pull in $1.3 billion with literally everything going in its favor should rightfully be a shock.

And given it pulled the strong opening weekend, the extremely weak legs with people not going back in the numbers they normally would, should tell the tale. If you didn't want to hear it, that's on you.

 

You're right, Solo will be a huge success instead of the biggest success of the year the way the previous SW films this decade have been. It should be in the top 5 films of the year instead of number one.

The sky, however, is not falling. Disney stock will continue to go up and Kathleen Kennedy will continue to do her job, which I think is the end-game you are deluding yourself into thinking might happen, that you want her to be fired because you didn't like a Star Wars movie. As long as it continues to be a huge success financially, as Solo will be, that's all that matters. In 2015, Marvel Studios didn't have the highest grossing film for Disney, Lucasfilm did, and in 2016 and 2017 Marvel didn't make the biggest films for Disney, Lucasfilm did, this year Marvel studios has their equivalent to "the Force Awakens" with IW, and with the follow-up of BP and Solo, not to mention continuing profits coming in the first half of the year from TLJ, 2018 will probably be the most profitable year for Disney in history because their two premier franchises--Star Wars and MCU--are trading tag-team blows with two huge successes each. Disney really doesn't care if some fanboys don't like Kathleen Kennedy, as long as Disney stock keeps going up the way it has been then no one is even going to give the question thought. That can be great or terrible news depending on what your opinions of their current output is, but it's the reality.

 

Desire...Reality...



"Aim for the bushes"

Cheers,
Jayson

 

Correction on the 40 yr argument: they're has been 10 films (including Solo R1) in 40 years and periods of time were we thought we would never get a new Star Wars movie. Infinity War had 10 years of build up and 18 films with each year releasing a new film. So, why are you comparing Marvel and Lucasfilm in anyway? Disney wins.

 

The logic that's been explained to me in this thread about this is that, for some reason, TLJ has higher standards; that BP should not be able to touch TLJ's levels and that it could is some kind of reflection of TLJ's failures.

Classic example of relative privation; to the definition.
To try to make a phenomenon appear good, by comparing it with a worse phenomenon, or to try to make a phenomenon appear bad, by comparing it with a better phenomenon.

Cheers,
Jayson

--- Double Post Merged, May 21, 2018, Original Post Date: May 21, 2018 ---

I'm still waiting on what that "should have" number is and what determines it.

The last time I asked, the answer ended up as,

(referring to)

Here comes my favorite part.

I don't need Disney.
Who sets the expectation?
Disney.

Anyway, moving on.

(I had to ask this because if you read the article, no such section exists in it.)

So yes, let's hear more about what exactly it should have made again.

Cheers,
Jayson

 

Those internet speeds are what you get for a commercial internet around where I'm at. I live in the US and I'm just speaking based on my area of service which I live just 2 hrs south of Atlanta. US is huge any many areas don't have great internet speeds. We average around 50 Mbps where I'm at (I have 100 Mbps) and I literally can travel 20 mins north of me and your only option is dial up. My brother lives in an area where he has broadband but his next door neighbor only 50 yards away can't get the same internet access. The city where I at only offer 3 providers (some parts of the city only has 1 option) and all 3 providers have a legal monopoly ownership of all of the fiber lines and it would be cheaper for an outside company to building their own infrastructure than to rent those already established fiber lines. Outside of major US cities, im sure my situation is very common especially more out west.

I agree that digital media is booming and starting to get more mainstream than physical media but I personally prefer physical media and majority of them comes with a digital code so why not spend little bit more money and get the best of both worlds? I use to work in retail selling mostly computers and little bit of tvs so I can relate to your story. In the US (not sure about outside the US) there is only one content provider that offers 4k channels and that's DiectTV and even they are limited to the amount of channels that offer it. Basically my point boils down to, streaming services are nice but majority of the US don't have the infrastructure in place to really take advantage of it. The physical size and spread out of the US is one of the main issues why we're lacking behind other 1st world countries on internet speeds. Anyways, I will always buy physical media until digital streaming becomes more consistent and equal across the playing field.

 

i honestly can't tell if you mean this as a joke?
an ironic joke? or just ironic?

​

i don't care where other people spend their money.
Star Wars is doing fine and making sufficient bank to go on making movies.
the rest is just lagniappe.

 

Are you really going to argue about a home run that hit the score board instead of landing in the parking lot? In the stat book it counts as a run. I doesn't matter if if hit the scoreboard, a random tree or a fan's car. it's still home run in the stat book. Only person that effects is the ego of the batter. Other than the WSJ article that gave us a vague report, what other legit article states that TLJ had to hit "x" number to be successful when you can find slew of articles that states the opposite.

 

From day 4-24

Infinity War: $337 millon
The Last Jedi: $352 million


After 24 days:

Infinity War: 2.3 multiplier
The Last Jedi: 2.6 multiplier


Seems like both movies having problem with finding butts to the seats.

 

You're really going to hate this.
I live in Alaska.
*ducks*

Now, not everywhere has it, but we do our best.
We have enough fiber to wrap the entire continental US.
We've ran fiber where most wouldn't bother; look up Kodiak island. Yep; gig speed unlimited usage available there (it's not cheap, but it's there).

But I feel you. We're friggen rare, and it's not easy.
The US doesn't make grid epansion and updating an easy benefit; you have to wiggle and find that dollar, and get creative with accounting offsets.

I mean; to improve our rural solutions we're having to work with Ireland for help.
Ireland...because no State has solved the rural problem, while outside the States; many have (not all).

So I hear you. *window love*

Cheers,
Jayson

 

Infinity War : $1.8 billion after 24 days
The Last Jedi: $1.3 billion after its full run.

One of these is not like the other. IW is having no trouble at all putting butts in seats and will likely be waving at TFA pretty soon as it becomes the 3rd highest grossing film in movie history, with a good shot at #2. Its already the first non-Cameron film to break Titanic's original $1.2 billion foreign first run in 20 years. When all is said and done, IW could very well end up grossing double (a 2x multiplier!) TLJ while snapping it into oblivion and taking a shot at the king. But good try!

And if Avengers doesn't get Avatar this year, the conclusion may very well next year. Or wait... per Star Wars rules should we be expecting a Kennedy dive??? NOPE, THIS IS MARVEL. THEY KNOW HOW TO MAKE GREAT MOVIES.

Meanwhile, we wait to see if another movie goes So Low that it meets fell-on-its-face expectations.

Yay! Baseball analogies!

I will agree that IW is a parking lot shot. TLJ is more like a ground-rule double with nobody on base where the batter pulled his hamstring rounding first and only got to second because he limped there.

More like a double for TLJ.

Nope... still not a run... but a solid hit when it should have gone in the seats and boy was it ugly. And remember.. the batter tore his hamstring getting to second, so next time up at the plate he's only expected to get a walk to first.
​

 

Hot dang, look at that goalpost move'in.

Cheers,
Jayson

 

Scoreboard... $1.8 billion after 24 days.

If you think a domestic multiplier means as much when you pull in $1.8 billion on your way to the #2 movie of all-time just lololol. Disney will have to soak their sorrows in a cash bath. Star Wars *NEEDED* that multiplier. IW, not so much given its a worldwide smash hit.

Just tell me this, do you expect the Avengers next year to Kennedy Dive off a 40% cliff like TLJ? By your measure, it should. Instead, it might become the first film to break a $300 mil OW and legit challenge Avatar.

*This* is how you build an IP. Star Wars, starting with TLJ, is Exhibit A in how you destroy an IP.

If So Low pulls what they're expecting.. i'm crowning this The Year Star Wars Died. I don't expect So Low to be that bad either, but TLJ was what it was. You can't just put the egg back together again, and per the apparent So Low 'expectations', they don't think they'll be able to.

One thing that can be said for certain... Marvel is now the pre-eminent #1 IP in movie history, and that was certainly not the truth pre-TLJ.

 

Dude, Infinity War is that kind of movie that is an event for a generation, like TFA was in 2015. Comparing TLJ to it makes no sense. I think the only thing we can take from these numbers is how the foreign market helps a lot to boost the total numbers these days. TFA numbers were great (captain obvious), but they could have been even better if markets like China and South America (ones who give much money to MCU) embraced more the franchise. It's notorious that there is a decline going on in the foreign market, nothing to be alarmed of, but I think that LucasFilm should stop giving so much attention to secure markets like US/Europe (where it will always have great numbers whatever happens) and start giving strong focus to these markets where it's not "so strong" yet. I think that it's the only thing that deserves an attention at the moment, but far from this "TLJ was a failure, SW is dead" mantra that has been going on by some people lately.