Weaponizing the haters

I suppose I'm well past the point of keeping up to speed with the latest SW comic books, toy line, spin-off novel etc - but then, I put that down to getting older and having way too many real-life things to worry about.
But at the same time, I don't think I'll ever get bored of watching the originals (when I get the time) or popping on a soundtrack CD, skimming through one of the making of books or the original Marvel comics...
And 40 years on, it still amazes me when a behind the scenes photo from the originals that I have never seen before surfaces on the net.
So I'll always care in that sense.

As for Episode IX - I guess I'm pretty intrigued as to how they are actually going to try to make this end up being a worthwhile venture, if nothing else. Because two thirds of the way in, and I'm not really feeling it - I don't really feel like I've been taken on a journey with any of these characters or that there is any kind of interesting climax being set up...

 

I agree wholeheartedly with this comment. I think that’s when this divide will finally end. Sure there will be people who don’t agree with the new series, but it won’t be to the degree of our current state. I hope.

 

Don’t blame the fans, blame Disney as the first 5 SW films were all geared to OT fans. TFA was marketed with Harrison Ford, R1 was marketed with the Death Star, TLJ was marketed with Mark Hamill, Solo was obviously about Solo, and Episode 9 is already getting buzz that Hamill is in it, they will be using old Fisher footage and the return of a Lando.

I would ask you why you’re still hanging around heading into SW movie #5 under Disney, and it’s the same story that they are reliant on some OT character/story to get fans in the theater?

They could have easily set Episode 7, 200 years later and made a Trilogy with Rey vs Kylo and it had no ties to the OT. But they didn’t as they wanted to have their cake and eat it too. They paid 4 billion to Lucas, so they want to maximize their audience for EVERY movie.

I’m not saying you’re wrong for wanting something original, I just think in this day and age of blockbusters, I don’t see it happening.

 

Let me preface my previous post to say this is why TV is the better medium for storytelling these days, simply because they have the freedom to be original.

Movies rely on the masses so they compromise quality in that respect. Netflix doesn’t care if every show is viewed by EVERY subscriber, they just care that the subscriber views enough shows as high quality to continue paying.

I’m watching a fantastic show on Netflix called ‘The Haunting of House Hill’ as it sums up why tv is better then movies. The show is a slow burn and takes its time telling its story, where if it were a movie, it would go for the cheap horror cliches to attract moviegoers in the trailers.

Honestly I’m still a SW fan cause of nostalgia as I don’t expect any new movie to break ground in terms of storytelling. This medium on the big screen doesn’t do that anymore, hence why dumbed down blockbusters have become the norm in our society.

 

In a nutshell, I'd rather see something capture the spirit of Star Wars, rather than regurgitate all the trappings of Star Wars.

And it's dumbed down to the point that there are only really three villain dynamics blockbusters seem to be able to conjure up these days:
1: You murdered / disgraced my parent / mentor (or it transpires you really are my parent / mentor, or you were almost murdered / disgraced by my parent / mentor), hence climactic showdown.
2: You are trying to open a portal / activate a device which will destroy Earth for some tenuous and inadequately explained reason, hence climactic showdown.
3: You are bringing a load of mindless CGI warriors, probably on floating mechanical fish skeletons, to Earth to smash up a city for some tenuous and inadequately explained reason, hence climactic showdown.
Or all of the above.

 

This is well stated, and fact is that TLJ has done permanent damage to the franchise. 55% of people who saw it didn't like it. We saw the damage in Solo's box office, we see it in merchandising, and we will see it with E9's box office. The hardcore fans just don't care as much anymore. E9 will still make money, but it will continue the downward trend we've seen since Disney started this whole thing.

 

You make a great point with this post. I have a hard time finding movies to watch. I can spend more time finding a good movie than what the actual time of a movie is. I find myself reading more than watching tv. And I hated reading up until I started reading Star Wars books.

I think there may come a time when movies are done and they become like GoT and westworld. The technology is available for the tv series to have great special effects at a lower cost. We’ve seen enough special effects that they are no longer special. People bought an hbo subscription just to watch GoT. I’m sure SW fans would do the same for a long term SW tv show. I would love a knights of the old republic tv show.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 20, 2018, Original Post Date: Oct 20, 2018 ---

As much as I would like it if that percentage of people would agree with me about tlj, I find it off. Where did you get that information?

I think part of the problem with the toys is that kids always want something new. When I was a kid, I always wanted sw toys. There was less of a selection those days. The toys were huge when the prequels came out cause it had been almost 20 years since new sw toys (characters) were available. Now the market is flooded with sw toys. It’s been steady for a few years so now that they are always available, people aren’t as rushed to get them cause they are now always available. I could be wrong. It’s just an opinion. No data to back this up.

 

Rotten Tomatoes, more specifically its audience score (the average score on that website was 2.9/5). The insistence of some people to use this number baffles me. There is a website that has been known for years for collecting the audience scores for years for movie fans across the world and it's IMDB. If you look up TLJ there, the score doesn't look so bad. It is 7.2/10. Nothing spectacular, but seeing how many films I like and are well-regarded have a score similar or lower than this film (Wild at Heart, A Serious Man, Black Panther to name a few) I have stopped caring for these metrics some time ago. They don't like them? Too bad.

 

I honestly don't care about the score from Rotten Tomatoes or the IMDB site. And I don't see why anyone has to depend upon that score or some film critic's opinion. Has it come to the point that very few people are capable of making their own decision on whether he or she wants to see a movie or not?

 

I guess it can be used but it is only part of the equation. With the multitude of sites used to grade movies, you can’t use only one to judge the overall outcome.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 20, 2018, Original Post Date: Oct 20, 2018 ---

I’ve never watched a movie because of a critics opinion. I’ve found that I rarely agree with the critics.

 

Hear hear!

 

I guess. Another case in point - on Filmweb, which is a Polish counterpart to IMDB, the score film received is 7.0/10. When you google TLJ, it appears that 72% of the people who voted liked it. On Amazon, it's rating is 3.7/5. Three website is still few, I agree, but I feel like the evidence I've been able to collect suggest that the RT audience score is an outlier.

And I have seen quite a lot of films because of critics. Also, you know that movie critics are... human beings

and since they are human beings they differ in their opinions?

I know, I sound like a crazy person, but the critics™ are not some kind of a hive mind that spew out some arbitrary numerical value after seeing each movie that describes it perceived quality. The only difference is that because seeing films is their job they do that a lot and because of that their tastes might differ from moviegoing audience who has neither time nor resources to see so many films. Even then, their responses differ. Wanna see that? Go and read reviews for The Phantom Menace, a divisive (that 55% on RT means that the number of critics who liked and disliked it is roughly even) film.

 

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 20, 2018, Original Post Date: Oct 20, 2018 ---

I agree with what you are saying and your numbers add up. But again I said it can only be used as part of the equation. So yes I guess...it can be used as part of the whole. I wouldn’t use it as my check mate, but I would use it as part of the whole.

Just like the paper that started this thread. Paragraph 2 on page 23 expressed how it is only a snapshot of the large issue.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 20, 2018 ---

I didn’t say that we should just get rid of critics. I know they have a role in the industry. I just don’t use them as a guide for my movie selections. Since I was a teenager my views of movies have usually differed from the critics. Maybe I’m not very cultured. I know I’m rough around the edges and not very smart. But please don’t think that I am bad mouthing them. I just don’t pay attention to them. I try not to upset people with my posts. Sorry if I upset you.

 

Just more examples of this new culture where we have to minimize other people's opinions in order to feel comfortable with our own, is completely taking over the fandom. I'd def say that the people who hated this movie are not a "tiny minority". The fact that some would suggest that russia is now out to troll hollywood movies is beyond embarrassing. Painting people with differing opinions as human scum for those opinions was bad enough, but now the narrative switches to foreign governments unleashing bots and trolls. When did it become so unbearable for a movie to have a significant amount of detractors?

 

How is this any different from people, who claim that Rian Johnson keeps bullying and insulting "the fans" with only one single tweet to prove that? Or constantly spreading rumours that RJ and/or Kathleen Kennedy are being fired? Or people, who first complain about women or diversity casting and then about the media calling them "racists" and "sexists"?
As for the "detractors", this isn't the first time the "fans" are agressively hating new SW movies. It's just that with TLJ, all the prequel-hating has somehow conveniently faded from memory. The difference now is that the media is attacking back. Yes, they are terrible at it and I don't support them, but I can see how somebody actively hating you back might seem unfair. During the Prequel days, nobody responded at the "fans". George Lucas just went away in the end.
Sorry, but in this moronic internet flame war, there are no "good guys" and "innocent victims".

 

We really don't know how each film critic form an opinion of any movie he or she watches. Some might come to a decision based upon their taste in films. Some might form an opinion based upon reasons that have nothing to do with tastes. Regardless . . . their final words on a movie is an opinion and nothing more. A moviegoer can either agree or disagree. But I find it weird how some people are more willing to form their opinions, based upon that of a critic, instead of taking the trouble to form their own opinions. Or adopt the stance that film critics should be regarded as the last words on the quality of a movie.