Were "fan expectations" the problem?

I work in a family business, and I would NEVER insult any of my customers even though they are wrong sometimes. There is a way of handling clients when they are unhappy with our product, and the last thing I would ever do is go on social media and engage with them.

That is why Solo bombing may have woke up the Disney brass that SW fans aren't a bunch of sheep anymore. They insulted or went back at the fans (however you interpret their actions) simply because they thought they had the leverage to do that thinking SW fans would turn out no matter what. This happened in Baseball in 1994 when the players/owners went on strike/cancelled the World Series and they pretty much thumbed their nose at the fans. The backlash they faced in 1995 was huge as attendance was down 50% in some ball parks, and they never had a work stoppage since as they learned not to take the fans for granted.

I personally don't think anyone in the public eye should be on social media (engaging with the fans), as I would never once think about doing that in my business. Sadly Social Media can get ugly, and it does more bad than good in something like this. If I were the head of Disney, I would tell JJ, Pablo, RJ and any Disney employee to either close their social media accounts, or only use to promote the movies, and never engage with any fans.

 

I dunno man, seems like a lot of fans slept on Solo because they were following the flock, to me.

 

Don't get me wrong, that wasn't the main reason why Solo bombed. I'm just saying that it was the first SW movie to bomb, so Disney has to realize that we aren't going to show up to every movie so one of the things they can't do is insult us on social media.

 

This is an interesting assertion. I wouldn't have described any of the movies as "in your face", but I'm quite interested in the idea that Lucas may have been. Do you care to elaborate?

To which "flock" would you be referring?

 

I hate TLJ so much that I see it as a plague. Something to avoid at all costs. I like seeing the best of humanity. TLJ displayed the worse.

 

I agree with this 100%. No good comes out of these social media interactions as currently performed. They should stay away from all the angry posts we see from so many - and that includes angry posts about non-movie topics. It benefits nobody.

 

The only way they are going to win is make a great film. Anything else is wasted energy, time, and money.

 

Even if they make a great film, there will always be angry people commenting on Social Media. That is why it's not worth it to engage with the fans because it's not going to solve the problem. There is something that happens to some people when they engage on Social Media, and an ugly side comes out from them (Then an ugly side comes out from the people answering them). Part of it is that they have their phone in their hand and every emotional thought that comes to mind, they can post within seconds. Anyone here just go through your social media timeline and 90% of it are garbage posts by people that nobody cares about. I have literally 'hidden' 95% of my friends on Facebook because I don't care what they had for dinner, or if they are out on a Saturday night. On the other hand, Social Media is a great tool for breaking news, weather reports, and following specific journalists on topics you enjoy (sports, politics, entertainment). All of the other stuff is a pure waste.

 

So should I post videos of customers going off on employees, many times racially, and we say those customers are always right? Now their is a difference being wrong and going off on them. Social media conversations between fans and Disney employees should only allow fans to berate and harass the employees and employees should just hold their tongue. Is that what you are suggesting?

 

From my experience working 10 years of retail with major retailers, I can attest to a fact that the customer isn't always right. I literally had a customer lie in my face to my manager before. I'm sorry, contrary to the popular belief, customers in general are very seldom right. Work a week in a major retailer and I promise you with my paycheck, that you'll experience customers lieing to you and blaming you for mistakes that they caused.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 15, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 15, 2019 ---

I can agree with some what. I went into TLJ with no political intention (cause I hate politics with a passion) and I never once got any political, preachy vibes that people claim in this movie. It wasn't when I started reading stuff on the internet that people associated TLJ with current politics weither it was intentional or not.

 

Now you are bringing up an extreme situation when it happens person to person, where you and I know that would be handled differently. I'm talking about the average Joe having a bad experience in a restaurant and complaining about the service or food, or a person is not happy with a product they bought at Walmart, etc. .

As for social media, if someone chooses to berate you in a tweet, you block them, plain and simple. They cannot tweet at you ever again, as they even get a message that you are blocked. Plus you and I know that social media is different in that people use fake accounts (so it is much different than when it happens face to face in real life). I see actors/athletes arguing with someone who only has an 'egg' as their avatar, so that is the first clue that you should block or ignore them in the first place.

 

"The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated." - Mahatma Gandhi

Meaning: The content of our character is attached to how we treat the most defenseless among us. Are we cruel to them or are we kind.

With no perceptible oversite or consequence, the proprietors of Canto Bight choose to be cruel to those who can’t defend themselves. It’s a reflection of the establishment itself, but also a tangible example of the “despair in the galaxy” claim Lor San Tekka made at the start of the trilogy. They despair because they lack hope. The Jedi represent hope and that’s why Luke’s presence is so crucial to the story.

I think the fathiers are stupid, but they fit within a larger thematic context of the narrative.

 

lol, completely agree.

I don't know how to fix it without a mod making a new thread and moving a certain part of the discussion there.

It naturally segued there with one mention of politics. Obviously there's a thirst to discuss this within SW and the ST, but I think everyone is wary to delve into it because it could get very toxic very fast. It's like talking about money or profits, it relates to SW, but outside of the fantasy and through the Earth lens.

Speaking for myself, I sure as hell won't start that thread lol, though I might contribute to it if someone else did.

 

But the fatheirs are central to the message, and one that the franchise seems hopelessly unequipped to convey with any credibility. Let's say your quote is what they were going with. "The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated." A reasonable quote and sentiment right? No one here should find issue with it.

But this is SW.

• We watched Obi Wan ride a varactyl as a war machine through a hail of blaster fire with no regard to it's well being, and eventually gets shot right off a cliff in Revenge of the Sith. No big deal.
• In Attack of the Clones we see animals being used for sport in an arena, and there's still no real messaging. No one was trying to understand and free the Reek, the Nexu, and Acklay. They weren't portrayed sympathetically even though they were no less wronged than the fathiers in being taken from their home planets. They are prodded to attack the heroes, they are eventually killed (the Acklay in particular caught a bad one) and that was that.
• No one thought "cruelty" when Han Solo shot the Mynocks off the Falcon or when the Wampa loses an arm on Hoth. No one flinched when Han rode a Taun Taun to death looking for Luke and split it open for warmth. All expendable.
• Luke kills the Rancor with a gate. Hadn't the Rancor been used as entertainment? Where was the messaging then? We just got done with TFA and Han Solo was hauling what? Rathtars. They were treated like freight. And this list is by no means exhaustive. I haven't even mentioned the Dianoga (the trash compactor animal from ANH)

Animals have always and particularly been expendable in SW... even the ones that weren't trying to kill you... and it happened under the regime of the Republic as well as the Empire. So it's not just "preachy" but awkward and puzzling watching the franchise suggest anti-animal abuse themes under the Fathier banner. Expendable alien life has been one of their staples.

 

hey all, let's maybe get this thread back on topic.

if you want to talk about animal cruelty and its treatment in Star Wars, that's a great topic, but it should have it's own thread.
let's keep this one to "fan expectations" please.

@eeprom, @Rayjefury if you would like your posts broken out in order to start that new thread, let me know and i can do it for you.

thank you! : D

 

Honest question, is the feeling really that an examination of themes (such as animal cruelty) do not sufficiently intersect with the discussions about fan expectations? We are drilling down into the details with this particular qualm, but I thought it was still a discussion about fan expectations and what was presented in TLJ?

If the general feeling in the room is that this is genuinely not related so be it. Sometimes when I'm in a discussion that's off topic I'll know it, or someone will raise the issue and I'll see it after the fact. I don't quite see it here.

 

Things like that belong more in Rebels and The Clone Wars, not in saga films. The whole movie felt like a TV show to be honest.

 

To get back to the topic, just look at ESB in 1980:

Did ANYONE who saw the movie back then expect:

-The good guys to lose for 2 hours?

-The movie to end on a cliffhanger?

-Obiwan lied to Luke about his father?

-Han maybe dead?

-The movie resembled nothing of the good vibe/tone of The Original?

So I guess 'fan expectations' didn't apply to ESB?

 

I was sitting in my seat wondering when are the good guys going to pull out the win, but it never happened. However, I didn't walk out of the movie theater upset over characters being different than what they were in ANH. Han, Leia, and Luke's relationship was still key to the story.

Luke was going to Cloud City to help his FRIENDS.

Rey was going to Kylo. A character who tortured her, killed his father and almost killed her friend. The friend who risked his life to rescue her. Once Rey did that. The movie fell apart.

Trying to change our two lead characters motivations from one another to something else was jarring, because neither are believable. Both characters go on suicide missions for people that treated them badly.

Poe always showed respect towards Leia, so for him to cut off communications with her in TLJ showed an arrogance he didn't have in TFA.

 

it really isn't what the original post is asking.
it's a semi-related digression (built on other disgressions), which is fine and can be relevant, but still probably better off in its own thread.

to be clear: i'm not calling you out for being off-topic in a negative way; the thread has rambled a bit--@eeprom and then your post are just the clearest breaking demarcation. they raise points that aren't about specific fan expectations for the storyline or speculation about the character trajectories, etc., that weren't met in TLJ. as you noted, they're about the general treatment of a theme throughout the whole of Star Wars.

see this post for the op's clarification of the question being asked: https://thecantina.starwarsnewsnet....n-expectations-the-problem.55853/#post-533008

again, it's a worthy topic. just not for this thread. : D