Main Kylo Ren/Adam Driver Episode IX Thread

He even thought about saving his mother by using the force and pull/push her back into the ship.

 

Does he actually know that Leia is alive? He might feel it through the force, but we all know how reliable that is.

 

The force theme that plays suggests he knows she is on the ship. The camera edits imply they're 'looking' at each other.

 

That's not what @Meister Yoda is asking, he is asking whether Kylo knows that Leia survived the attack or not. We don't know it though. That's one of my major points of criticism which I have with RJ's writing. It should have been adressed at a meeting with Snoke or he should have seen his mother on Crait.

I'm curious how JJ will deal with that. Does Kylo know is mother is still alive from the very beginning of TROS or will he find out?

 

If they can sense each other that closely, I'm sure he would have sensed that she died. Remember that Leia knew immediately (or at least a strong feeling) that Han died and she wasn't even forced trained really; just sensitive to it.

 

If he knows, then it's even more of a reason to adress it. Snoke could have mocked Ren about not being able to kill Leia. But Rian kinda forgot about that... It's bad writing.

 

If he doesn't know she survived. It will shed another light on his eagerness to kill everybody on crait. Because we know who is in his eyes responsible for Leias "death". Not his first order of course, but it's Han, Luke and the Resistance. Dang that stupid Han father figure didn't know how to handle that all powerfull force sensitive superman. Luke stole him from his Mom, because he wanted superman to join his justice league and the resistance stole her mother from him from the very beginning. And without that stupid resistance his mother would still be alive. They all need to die.

 

Or you're beating a dead horse at that point, because Snoke believed he still had "his father's heart in him."

 

I like that. He would have been even more blind because of his rage. It kinda reminds of:

Of course you whould have to rewrite some stuff, but it's worth for a better and consistent story.

 

I'm inclined to think JJ and Terio will not linger on Kylo's reaction at finding out information the audience already knows, like Leia surviving the space attack or Vader being redeemed. Just imagine Adam Driver emoting about finding out something the audience is very well aware of... I don't know, there is a risk of such scenes appearing hammy and superfluous... I think a new set of dilemmas and questions would make the story fresher and more entertaining. For me it is better to assume Kylo knows about Leia surviving the attack, as the point made at the end of TLJ, after the throne scene and Rey's refusing his offer, is that Kylo has regressed into a more evil stance, and that now he is capable of killing his mother. (Even though RJ planted the seed of redemption again with the dice scene and Kylo looking up at Rey with outmost regret.)

 

Agreed. But as I have stated in other posts, this is a tall order given that the entire arc starts with this final act and the 3 hours are going to be divided between Kylo and Rey & Co.

It can be done. Just has a long way to go and very little screen time to make it work, imo.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 26, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 26, 2019 ---

Not killing his mother is not evidence of change.

 

More positive actions from Kylo demonstrating a change of attitude, such as saving someone in the name of compassion in TROS, need to have a base in the previous films, so that these actions don’t feel aleatory and coming from nowhere. Having his conscience telling Kylo not to kill his mother in TLJ is a first step. As I said before, the seed has been planted.

 

I 100% agree with you here.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 27, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 27, 2019 ---

I found Vader's turn back to the light in ROTJ rather rushed and did we see any evidence that it was even a possibility until ROTJ?

BOOM

 

I think it can be argued that Vader's faceoff with Luke in TESB affected him to some extent, and may have planted the seed of hope for Vader. His exchange of words with Luke both in Bespin as then "via force telepathy" when Luke was already in the Falcon made it feel that something had changed for those two after that faceoff. Afterwards, Luke referred to Vader as "father" and Vader to him as "son". This was a powerful connection.

At least that's how I interpreted it.

"I told you to remain on the command ship…”
“A small Rebel force has penetrated the shield and landed on Endor.”
“Yes. I know.”
“My…son is with them.”
“Are you sure?”
“I have…felt him, my Master.”
“Strange that I have not…I wonder if your feelings on this matter are clear, Lord Vader…”
“They are clear, my Master.”
“Then you must go to the sanctuary moon and wait for him.”
“He will come to me?”
“I have foreseen it. His compassion for you will be his undoing. He will come to you, and then you will bring him before me.”

We know how that ended

\Edit: Or.. has it not?

 

The OT was not about Vader. The ST is about Kylo.

Apples and oranges.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 27, 2019 ---

Sure. I get the seed was planted. It has been around, as you and others have pointed out, since some scenes in TFA.

However, inaction is not action. He has never acted upon a moment in a positive unselfish way. He has only not acted - in the case of his mother, for example.

I need some dispositive action from him. It hasn't happened yet. Obviously, it will in the final chapter. Curious to see how them make this work.

 

Sorry, but when people are repeatedly asking "will this be ROTJ 2.0?", I'm going to make the comparison. I don't personally feel that way, but apparently there are those that do.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 27, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 27, 2019 ---

Killing Snoke was inaction? You could argue that came from a selfish place, but.

 

Exactly. Specially when we could bet our livelihoods that, if Kylo is redeemed, we will not hear the end of “TROS is ROTJ 2.0! it’s the same ending for Vader and Kylo! Soooo unoriginal! Lazy writing!” etc etc

 

If Kylo is redeemed at the end and dies to save Rey while vanquishing Palpatine, you bet your ass it's unoriginal and lazy story telling.

 

Yes. Killing Snoke so that you can rule the galaxy as a dictator because you know what is right definitely comes from a dark place. Is the galaxy better off, possibly. but that is neither here nor there.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 27, 2019 ---

I haven't said any of these things so I find it odd that they are being ascribed to me in order to make your point. My posts and reasoning clearly indicate I do not find the ST to be mirroring the OT.

 

Killing Snoke was supposed to have us believe Kylo was doing exactly what Rey predicted, but when he asked her to join him and didn't take the glove off (like he did in the hut scene) she knew it wasn't Ben Solo that was asking, it was Kylo Ren. I also don't subscribe to the fact that he thought his mother was dead which is why he attacked Crait. He knew Rey was on the Falcon and ordered it be destroyed. He was ready to kill Leia, Luke and Rey. No question in my mind. Of course it would be easier to for him to swallow if he "ordered it" rather than having to do the deed himself.

Personally, I don't think the ST is a rehash of the OT. I just don't want to end up in exactly the same place. Otherwise the ending of ROTJ was pointless.