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10 Likes/10 Dislikes from TROS

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by C2P2, Dec 20, 2019.

  1. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    - Rian killed Snoke and set Kylo up to be the main villain <=> JJ brings back Palpatine because Snoke is dead and doesn't see Kylo as a good enough villain
    - Rian making Rey a nobody who has to overcome the need of family <=> JJ makes Rey a Palpatine and once again she is looking for her family
    - Rose and Finn being hinted as a couple <=> in TROS their relationship is forgotten and Rose is reduced to a exposion/background character
    - Finn was not FS in TLJ <=> Finn is FS in TROS

    I could go on, but I think you get my sentiments. This trilogy didn't have an united vision.
     
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  2. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    Likes

    1. The classic comedy
    2. C3PO, Poe, Rey, Chewie and Finn together in the adventure
    3. Babu Frik
    4. The call backs and fan service
    5. Expanding some things from TLJ. Small but JJ did.
    6. Lando
    7. Han and Ben
    8. How it starts right in the action at the start with Kylo and with Palpatine. As well as all action scenes were fun
    9. Kylo/Ben and Rey, everything. Including ending
    10. Leia

    Dislikes

    1. Palpatine having a son. Have a hard time with that
    2. The pacing was a bit choppy and moves too fast at times
    3. Except for Babu Frik, the other new characters. They did much of nothing
    4. Rose doing basically nothing
    5. Movie seemed too short for all it had to do
    6. The crash landing of the Falcon wasn't necessary. Didn't need to show it.
    7. The Knights of Ren were a waste. No story or back story for them
    8. As much as I loved Adam Driver in the movie. After his memory with Han he sort of disappears and has no lines after that
    9. The mask was put back together for nothing. May have been a dig at Rian, but not sure
    10. Hux wasn't around much except to die.
     
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  3. Flyboy

    Flyboy Force Attuned

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    I'll start with the dislikes.

    A few petty dislikes:

    1. I didn't like the crawl. Specifically the way it starts, "The dead speak!" every time I try to sound it out in my head I picture a 16 year old girl saying it, and then following it with a loud, "YIKES!" I don't know, remember... these are petty.
    2. Luke looked odd to me. He just did.
    3. I struggled with whether I should put this here, in my legitimate dislikes or just leave it off in general because it's a very sensitive subject. Every time Leia was on-screen speaking it took me right out of the movie. I know they were so incredibly limited with what they could do but it didn't work for me, it never felt real. Leia's responses always sounded like they were coming from an AI and I just didn't like it. Had the situation not been what it was, this would've been not only in my legitimate dislikes but maybe my biggest dislike, but given what it is I'm putting it here because I well and truly realize I'm very petty for this one.

    Legitimate dislikes:

    1. The length, this needed to be longer. I've cooled on my original suggestion of splitting it into two movies, I don't think that was very needed. But another 20-30 minutes and I think a lot of this would've hit harder than it did for me.
    2. Sort of ties in with the last one but, the pacing, especially in the beginning was very rough. The entire first 5 minutes of the movie felt like it could've been 20 easily.
    3. The score. Nothing stood out to me outside of A New Home which I think despite its very short runtime is fantastic. Other than that though it was largely forgettable and I'm not sure if this is an unpopular opinion or not but I thought he did great with the first two films.
    4. Rose, seeing her relegated the way she was really didn't sit right with me. The "I gotta hang back and check Star Destroyer specs" part had me cringing, it's such a... I don't cheap way of cutting her out of the main story. I honestly wish that part wasn't even in there and it was just ignored.
    5. The line, "A Jedi's weapon deserves more respect". After JJ saying (in regard to TLJ) that filmmaking shouldn't be a meta thing, he went ahead and did that.
    6. My biggest issue, the convenience of some things in the plot had me rolling my eyes so hard I thought they'd fall out. "We need to do this..." "Wait I just read something about that literally 30 seconds ago"... "How are we gonna get to this place"... "Wow the directions are right here on this thing we just found!!", etc.
    7. Throughout the movie they made it a point on more than one occasion to tell Rey not to be afraid or not to run from who she is and there was really no payoff to that. I thought by the end it was going to be one of the major themes of the movie but it wasn't. Rey just became a Skywalker and that was that.


    Likes:

    1. The banter between the three heroes, especially Poe and Rey. There was a specific moment towards the beginning, when Poe returns to base with the Falcon on fire, Rey and Poe have a little back and forth and it reminded me so much of Han and Leia's bickering in ESB.
    2. Leia's death was handled very well.
    3. C-3PO was very funny, "I know you didn't ask about me, sir, but I am fine" was probably the funniest line in the movie.
    4. We didn't get to see much of it but I really enjoyed the look and feel of Kijimi. That's the side of the Star Wars underworld that I'd really love to explore more. And for what it's worth, I liked Zorii.
    5. LANDO!!
    6. The Han/Ben scene was pretty great.
    7. The film looks good, I was worried that after TLJ (which in my opinion is not only the best looking Star Wars film but maybe the best looking blockbuster of all-time) we'd go back to the, while still cool, rather bland look of TFA. While I don't think any progression was made, it certainly didn't regress much.
    8. This is a bit of a weird one, but the wave of resistance/allied ships that show up with the Falcon near the end. There are so many, I bursted out laughing the first time I saw it because it's so absurd but I'd be lying if I said I didn't like it.
    9. The Dennis Lawson cameo, seeing Wedge back was great and was one of the few pieces of fan-service that I legitimately enjoyed.
    10. The hug between Rey, Finn and Poe at the end. I don't know why this got to me the way that it did but it did. Maybe because this is the first trilogy that I've really lived with. Was born after the OT, was too young to really understand the PT. This even got me the first time when I came out of the theater with almost nothing good to say about this movie. 3 watches, 3 cries.
     
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  4. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    There is nothing "meta" about that line whatsoever; it's a tacit acknowledgement of the change in Luke's feelings about the Jedi from what they were when she gave him the saber.
     
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  5. Flyboy

    Flyboy Force Attuned

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    You're right in that regard, but everything else, from the delivery, to the camera angle, to the look on Luke's face as he's saying it, to the zoom and slight grin after he says it, all of that to me signals a very obvious shot at TLJ and Rian.
     
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  6. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    Then you're completely misreading things.
     
  7. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    This one blows my mind still. For everything people didn't like about TLJ, Rian left JJ a layup with Kylo Ren as a villain.
    He's in charge. He's unstable. He can still talk with Rey through the bond. Instead he (JJ) takes all agency Ren has and gives it to Palpatine
     
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  8. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    If you thought Ben was going to be the new overarching villain of the Sequel Trilogy, you missed the point of what Rian was actually doing,
     
  9. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    No, I didn't thank you.
    Ren was set up as the Supreme Leader. His redemption could still happen but again, in the first 10 minutes of the movie he loses all agency as a character and just becomes a pawn...again....seeking to overcome another leader....again....
    That stage of his story played out in TLJ but better.
    All JJ had to do was write the redemption into that but didn't.
     
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  10. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    Supreme Leader is a title; Ben taking that title on doesn't automatically make him the 'overarching villain' of the Sequel Trilogy, it just sets up his character's new 'status quo'.

    TRoS not following through on your impressions of what was being set up doesn't make the film 'bad' or make the decisions that were made in it inconsistent with what came before it.
     
  11. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    JJ Abrams after TFA: "Kylo Ren is a villain in the making." => The next step for a villian is to become the oppressor to complete his journey. Rian made Kylo the oppressor by killing the previous oppressor, Snoke. But now, JJ backtracks and introduces a new oppressor in the form of Palpatine. That's no coherent story telling.
     
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  12. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    I mean, it kind of does?
    If Vader became the Emperor in ESB we wouldn't look for another Emperor to take that title back in ROTJ.

    It's not that it didn't follow through on my impressions, it's that it took all the agency Kylo Ren EARNED in two movies and gave it to the Emperor. He became another pawn for another master for 75% of this movie.
     
  13. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    JJ didn't 'backtrack' on anything. He simply reintroduced Palpatine and paved the way for Ben's redemption and the cementing of Ben and Rey as the co-protagonists and heroes of the Sequel Trilogy as a whole.
     
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  14. Messi

    Messi G.O.A.T.

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    I thought the same thing. I think most of the fans didn't get this message.
     
  15. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    Luke's catching of the sabre and line was dual purpose. There could have been a drumbeat for laughs there. Sure he was owning up to his mistakes. TLJ Luke had lost hope. He got his grove back at the end of TLJ and saved the day. So catching the sabre and what he said fits but its also a wink and a nod.
     
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  16. Stefynoseu

    Stefynoseu Rebel General

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    Likes:
    1. Ren: "you're hard to find." Rey: "You're hard to get rid of."
    2. Music associated with Knights of Ren
    3. Death Star Wreckage when Rey walks around (like a video game)
    4. Palps: "The Prncess of Alderan has disruped my plans."
    5. Luke: "A Jedi's weapon deserves more respect"
    6. Luke raising the X wing and Yoda's theme playing
    7. Star Wars theme that played when the Horses started running
    8. Zorri Bliss and Bobbu Frick
    9. The banter between Finn, Poe, Rey, and Chewy
    10. The kiss (cheesy I know, but I dig it!)

    Dislikes:
    1. Luke's hair
    2. The Sith people chanting (super creepy)
    3. Not enough Leia :-( (so sad)
    4. Back story of Palps lacking
    5. Would have preferred Ben & Rey defeat Palps together (nit picking here).

    I'll add more later!! :)
     
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  17. Maximillian

    Maximillian Rebel General

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    But did he become a pawn at all? He went to find the emperor to kill him...the emperor passed on knolledge to Ren regarding the final order and Rey’s origin, Ren went to find Rey so they could both go there and destroy The emperor once and for all...he did all this. He promised he would kill the emperor like 5 mins into the film, he achieved that. The emperor was his pawn. He used him to learn about Rey. He never at all worked for the emperor, he never intended to kill Rey or hand her over. Not even when they had their fight on the Death Star, infact through out the whole trillogy he never tried to kill her once.

    I think coz the emperor is the emperor and the beats match ROTJ it seems like Kylo Ren was a pawn again but he is a complete free agent for the duration of ROS and the movie never tries to say or even feint that he isn’t.
     
  18. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Force Sensitive

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    Things that I like
    • Luke being the Obi-Wan of the Sequel Trilogy
    • Rey's arc
    • Ben Solo/Kylo Ren’s arc
    • C3-P0
    • Babu Frik. I liked the character even more on the 2nd viewing.
    • Continued and expanded the ideas/lore that The Last Jedi created
    • New implications of the lore when it comes to the Sith
    • Brief cameo of Wedge Antilies

    Things that I didn’t like
    • Emperor Palpatine – It was cool to see Ian McDiarmid reprise his role again, but the quick explanation of Palpatine coming back wasn’t satisfactory and felt like it was rushed. Wish they spent little bit more time with that.
    • General Pryde – Felt like there was something off about his character. The movie made it seem like had a more important role than what they showed us.
    • Constant fake out of character’s “deaths”. - It’s fine if they did it to one character but it got repetitive when it keeps on happening to multiple characters. It felt like a cheap way to play with the audience emotions. The 2nd viewing had no emotional effect on me.
    • Not enough breaks to process the information and the events that we see on film. Movie felt rushed.
     
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  19. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Kylo Ren yet again is beneath someone he has to overthrow. That's literally what he just did in TLJ and instead of being creative, they just re-did that. That's the issue. It removes his agency and gives it to the Emperor. He was an underling. A pawn, again. He was never in control.
     
  20. Maximillian

    Maximillian Rebel General

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    That’s not my reading of it at all. I mean I see how that is how it looks visually but based on the dialog and the emperors relationship to him, I felt Kylo Ren was not at all a pawn this time and he was in control of all his moves the whole time. The emperor said : ‘kill the girl and I’ll give you my fleet.’ But I don’t think that was ever something Ren wanted. He always wanted the end game to be him and Rey. Palpatine was his villain. Not a master or mentor to him. I don’t see how Palpatine was a master to him. Its more like Luke’s relationship with the emperor Emperor than Vader’s. He promised To take Luke as his apprentice if Luke killed Vader. That’s pretty much Kylo’s story in RoS. It was a deal he never intended to take. In my reading of the film anyway.
     
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