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SPECULATION 3 Jedi defenseless against Palpatine??

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Klai Kenobi, Nov 1, 2016.

  1. Lord Revanous

    Lord Revanous Force Sensitive

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    No. No. NO. NO. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
    *Clears throat*

    Okay, I love the prequels, yeah! They're great and I don't really pay to much attention to the issues it has, eg, Ma boy Jar Jar and Padme broken heart death....
    BUT, I can't look past this one, it just makes no freaking sense! I would understand if Windu was there with maybe 3 clone troopers or inflatable Antonio Banderas dolls, but these are some of the MOST decorated Jedi Masters. Please. Sidious was strong, but it doesn't matter, how strong a Sith Lord is, even the weakest of Jedi can hold at least a parry in a saber duel against them! At least for 5 seconds! So 3 Jedi masters, I would have expected a minimum 30 - 40 seconds (Was less than 10 and only cause Windu helped Fisto) before dropping all three! Agen, Saesee, and Kit, Yes, where a lot weaker than Sidious, like a lot but, I honestly reckon the younglings would have lasted longer against Vader!

    (red)(green)(blue)
     
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  2. Amanaman

    Amanaman Rebel Official

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    I agree with the OP. While I am a huge PT fan, the choreography of that fight is just awful. All Jedi there indeed knew how to fight and Kit Fisto proved this both in AOTC and in CW. Just look at how long it takes Sheev to impale Agen Kolar while everone stays there like dorks! Then Saesee Tiin bites it in an incredibly stupid manner.
     
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  3. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

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    I was stupid enough to be among those that spoiled ROTS for myself by reading an almost word-for-word script leak a couple of months before the movie was released. (i honestly thought it was fan made lol)

    The scene sounded like it would be utterly brutal, and i was sooo looking forward to it.
    I think that we were supposed to think that Sidious was so superior to a normal Jedi.. that by using the force he was way too quick for them. If that was the idea, then it was a poorly made and horribly choreographed scene.

    Such a missed opportunity to be one of the most classic SW scenes ever.. it just needed a bit more care and a lot more love put into it.
     
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  4. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    Yes . . . nearly every one who has posted on this thread has repeated this opinion over and over again. Anything new?
     
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  5. Klai Kenobi

    Klai Kenobi Rebel General

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    I would have been fine with Palpatine just exploding his force lightning on all of them and Mace gets knocked down the hallway giving him enough time to stab the 3 stunned jedi. I know Lucas was saving lightning for the Mace's final moments, but I think my version would have been more epic.. :)
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 28, 2016, Original Post Date: Nov 28, 2016 ---
    Exactly my point! It more blows my mind that they didn't take more care in this most tense and iconic moment! It could have been as simple as adding a bit of a blur effect in post production, so we see he's moving at a force speed that is too quick for the Jedi. So simple
     
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  6. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

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    GL had this opportunity.. this scene to say to the audience "hey you know that iconic badie Vader? well this is HIS master..an absolute beast of a sith lord!"

    Dude gave us star wars and i'll love him forever for it, but he could have done so much more with that scene.
     
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  7. Brad

    Brad Clone

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    Sithius killed the 5 Jedi so easely due two his midoclorions been so corupted by the power of the dark side. His force litening is another example of this trate. People have to know that not evrything is gonna be explained in these movies you have to be able to be able too think for your own mind. I think the prequels do this better than the rest of the the saga.
     
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  8. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Yeah, the point was Palpatine was channeling the force and able to basically completely outmaneuver his opponents.

    But yeah, in the end it just makes the jedi look like terrible AI in a video game.
     
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  9. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    Is that your real problem? That a trio of Jedi Knights were made to look incompetent in compare to Palpatine? Is this another argument in which someone complains about the Jedi not being as ideal as Obi-Wan had originally described them?

    I agree that the brief fight scene was clumsily choreographed. But I see nothing improbable about Palpatine being able to quickly take out those three Jedi.
     
  10. Admiral Petty

    Admiral Petty Force Sensitive

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    My problem with the scene is the obvious laziness involved in filming it. Here's the thing, I can buy a Sith Master like Sidious making short work of Jedi, even Jedi Masters. What I can't buy is how lazy the scene looks in the film. As some in this thread have suggested, maybe Sidious froze them in place, if that's the case, fine, but make that clear. Even if that is the case though, that still isn't as exciting as actually seeing him defeat them through swordsmanship. All the scene would have required was to show some simple choreography, maybe showing him savagely beating aside their guard and running them through.

    To clarify, I'm completely fine with Sidious making very short work of them, it's the execution that I have problems with. Instead of watching that sequence and thinking "Wow, Sidious is a bad@#$ !", the impression we get instead is "Wow, those Jedi are terrible swordsmen...".

    For a similarly disappointing scene, see the scene in AotC where a Jedi Master jumps up on the balcony to face Dooku and gets shot in the chest by Jango Fett. I'm sure George was trying to use that scene to show how impressive Jango Fett is, but the impression we get instead is "Wow, that Jedi Council member is a terrible fighter". Once again, with just a bit more effort, that scene could have been much more satisfying. Maybe have Jango tie him up with his wrist cord first or something, you know, the cool stuff he was doing in the fight with Obi-Wan. He still could have dispatched just as quickly, but in a more satisfying way.

    Things like that are frustrating, because they are examples of lazy filmmaking. We know George can do better because he did do better with other scenes in the prequels.
     
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  11. Klai Kenobi

    Klai Kenobi Rebel General

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    Wasn't that it needed to be more epic, but just better executed. A simple blur effect in palpatines movements implying hes using a force speed would had sufficed
     
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  12. Kyber

    Kyber Rebelscum

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    1.) Palpatine was supposed to be "The Flash" fast. It didn't translate well to film.
    2.) I remember reading somewhere that the roar Palpatine makes as he launches at the Jedi is 'Force Roar', which made the Jedi Masters disorientated except Mace (who dabbles with the Dark Side and has Shatterpoint).
     
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  13. 2K-D2

    2K-D2 Clone Trooper

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    If peope just heeded my wise posts from p1, this discussion wouldn't be taking place... eh.
     
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  14. Obi juan kenobi

    Obi juan kenobi Rebel Trooper

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    Fully agree, this is my biggest hate in the film...They just looked like ordinary civilians who were handed sabres and had their gowns on.

    After reading a few other peoples thoughts, about the 'force roar', I will have to watch it again and see if this helps me enjoy the scene more!
     
    #34 Obi juan kenobi, Dec 20, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
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  15. Klai Kenobi

    Klai Kenobi Rebel General

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    I tried that. Its really an editing thing. It takes far too long for him to land, **** his saber back and execute for it to hold up as anything reasonable. :/ that said, the movie as a whole is extremely entertaining and has some amazing imagery if you're into that
     
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  16. Klai Kenobi

    Klai Kenobi Rebel General

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    Couldn't agree more. Its not that he did smoke 3 Jedi easily, it was the way they choreographed, edited the scene. It almost looked as bad as a kids play where the kids are too distracted, young and uncoordinated to make an action scene authentic at all!
     
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  17. SKB

    SKB Force Sensitive

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    While I'm sure that Sheev Palpatine could defeat three Jedi, the actor Ian McDiarmid most definately could not.
    His stiff awkward slow fighting technique is hugely distracting as it's totally unconvincing and seriously needs reshooting with a trained stunt double stand-in fighter for a possible future Special Edition or re-release. Ian's face could be cgi'd onto the doubles face in the same way Chistopher Lee's was pasted over his swordfighting double.
    ;)
     
    #37 SKB, Dec 21, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2016
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  18. Klai Kenobi

    Klai Kenobi Rebel General

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    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 21, 2016, Original Post Date: Dec 21, 2016 ---
    Funny because I actually like ian McDiarmid s crazy, eccentric side and how he took such pleasure in finally taking in the Jedi whom were in his face for decades and thought they had control of the republic. He was finally free and had everything lined up to reveal himself and unleash! Haha a lot of people hated it, but I thought it added much to his character and how much of a sociopath he had become. Lol
     
  19. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    Everyone is repeating the same thing . . . that the fight scene between Palpatine and those three Jedi were badly shot. Yes, I get it. I agree. But that doesn't mean I find the idea of Palpatine being capable of defeating those three Jedi rather quickly, so improbable.


    Are some of you claiming that just because the scene was clumsily shot, you're refusing to accept the idea that Palpatine was capable of easily defeating them? Is that what all of these words are about? Is there anything new to add?
     
  20. Admiral Petty

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    I haven't seen anyone in this thread since your last comment imply that Darth Sidious shouldn't be able to defeat multiple Jedi Masters easily. The majority of the comments in this thread are based upon the execution of the scene, which almost all of us agree was flawed. The reason we continue to discuss it is because it really bugs us, especially because of the obvious laziness involved. One can argue the merits of the action sequences in the prequels quite a bit, but even those who bash them will seldom imply that they were lazy in their execution. George showed us impressive action sequences in each of the prequels, so things like the beginning of the Sidious fight irk us because we know George could have done better, and in fact, did do better on multiple occasions. In all honesty, even with Ian McDiarmid's, limited experience and age, George still could have shot that scene in a more convincing manner, without a stunt double.

    Things like that are why we continue to discuss that scene, and because discussing things we like and don't like in the forums is fun. Another benefit to posting on topics, even ones that are thoroughly discussed, is that it allows you to more clearly articulate your thoughts on a matter, oftentimes more clearly crystallizing why you feel this way or that on certain subjects. If you're bothered or bored by this discussion, simply do what others on the forums do and unwatch this thread. I've done that multiple times with threads that no longer hold my interest.
     
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