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4K Box Set Now Available for Pre-Order at Best Buy

Discussion in 'General Movie Discussion' started by SegNerd, Feb 20, 2020.

  1. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel General

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  2. Angelman

    Angelman Servant to the Whills & Slave to the Muses
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    Do we have any idea what's in this besides the 9 films? There are 3 discs per film, right? (Will there be near-theatrical versions of the OT, for example?) :)

    Also, it is a bit strange to read that Rogue One is in this set :eek: lovely, but strange :D
     
    #2 Angelman, Feb 20, 2020
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  3. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    No that is the release date.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Feb 20, 2020 ---
    The 3rd disc of each movie is likely bts, It doesn't have R1(?). It's probably their special edition version of 1-6.
     
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  4. Angelman

    Angelman Servant to the Whills & Slave to the Muses
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    "On March 31, coinciding with the physical release of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker, eight Star Wars films are being released on 4K UHD for the first time: Star Wars: The Phantom Menace, Star Wars: Attack of the Clones, Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith, Star Wars: A New Hope, Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back, Star Wars: Return of the Jedi, Star Wars: The Force Awakens and Rogue One: A Star Wars Story." (my underlining, from the quote on the SWNN article on this release)

    Perhaps I misunderstood? This is not from the big set?
     
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  5. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    The image that Best Buy has doesn't have R1.
     
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  6. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Force Attuned

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    Ah.. I was confused by this at first. Like you, I thought they were saying Rogue One is in the Skywalker Saga boxset. Which just led me to think "okay.. so why not put Solo in there as well?"

    But what I think they are saying, is that AS WELL as the box set - which is just the nine saga films in 4K UHD - they are also releasing everything separately, MOST of which are in 4K UHD for the the first time. So Solo, and TJL for that matter, are not listed because they are already available in 4K UHD.

    So no, R1 is NOT in the box set, is my understanding from parsing the statement!
     
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  7. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel Official

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    $250 is still a bit steep for me to pay. I may hold out and see if the price drops and when other retailers start to carry it.
     
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  8. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel General

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    I already preordered it, and I don’t even own a 4K Blu Ray player. :D

    4K Blu Ray players are still kind of pricy ($200ish), and it seems silly to buy one now when the PS5 is less than a year away.

    So I guess for now, I will just admire the shiny box and continue streaming the movies on Disney+, hehe.
     
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  9. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel Official

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    If you can find XBOX One S for pretty cheap you can use that as 4k bluray player or just wait for November/December and get the PS5. My One X is my 4k bluray player.
     
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  10. Angelman

    Angelman Servant to the Whills & Slave to the Muses
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    Right! That makes sense :) I just put 2 & 2 together and got 5, heh heh.

    So... stupid question for tech-illiterate idiots like myself... What's the point with 4K? Is it just some super-crisp image thingy? (I tend to prefer lower resolution images as seeing individual pores in actor's faces, and the like, takes me out of the experience; lol! :p )
     
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  11. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel General

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    Maybe the easiest way to think about it would be to compare a DVD to a Blu Ray. That will give you a feel of what a big jump in resolution feels like. 4K Blu Ray is the next step up after Blu-Ray.
     
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  12. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    Holy maclunkey I have been waiting for this for years.....cannot wait to see A New Hope in 4K. Hope it is high quality. Hey @Jayson , do you know the process that is used to "clean up" a movie and convert to 4K?
     
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  13. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    Yes. It's not very magical, I'm afraid.

    The 4K part is pretty straight forward. That's just resolution. Film is inherently (in potential) WAY above 4K. However, the cameras they used weren't. You can't make the resolution go higher than what the filmstock had from the camera's capability to capture light. And the fidelity of cameras then was good, but it wasn't as high caliber as the technology today. Lens technology has really come a long way, and back then, there was a lot more shaking going on inside the camera from the reel and shutter mechanisms than there is today, which added to the quality issues somewhat. The biggest limiter was the lenses though. Well, that and the ability to keep the internals of the camera clean. Shooting all the Tatooine stuff was a nightmare, and Hoth was insanity...trying to keep the cameras clean and warm was a huge struggle.

    So the best you can get in resolution is what the footage looked like on the first viewing at the studio (since theater projectors and shipping the film around had a lot to do with the bad quality at the theater).

    The bigger variable is the HDR conversion.
    This is where the big mess or win happens.
    This is the color and lighting correction.
    Specifically, it's where they take the range of light in a frame and crack it wide open to a much wider range by computation that uses a relative scale.

    An easy way to think of it is like scale models of buildings (or AT-ATs :) ).
    A tiny model of the Empire State building that only stands a foot tall still has all the same dimensions as the full scale version. It's just so small in scale that the fidelity is much lower than the full scale version.
    And as we all know from years of Star Wars behind the scenes, the bigger you make the model, the higher and higher the fidelty gets.
    What doesn't change is the proportion.
    The Falcon is always the Falcon regardless of the scale. The cockpit is always the same relative distance from the thrusters. What changes is how much surface area light can bounce off of and reflectively hit the lens of the camera, therefore giving you more aparrent detail.

    And that is the trick. More surface area means more light can hit it. More light hitting it means more light.
    And because of our ocular system being light sensative primarily, the more light, the higher the fidelity.

    HDR is much the same, but instead of a physical surface, it's a digital map in the mind of a process of light adjustment of a frame.
    That is, the frame is like the Falcon model.
    However, instead of saying that we need to make a bigger Falcon and reshoot the scene to get better fidelity, we suggest that we can just take the fidelity that we have, and artificially increase the fidelity by digitally adding more light than was captured.

    How?

    In concept, it's very easy. It goes back to that scale model idea. If we look at an image and see the brightest point is one level, and the darkest point another, but the amount of light levels between these two points is only 5 levels of light, then we're going to have a pretty terrible image.
    Conversely, if we see that there are hudrends of levels of difference, then we're doing better. Crank to a few thousand, and we're really cooking...at least in theory.

    Think of it like this. If I give you one candle in a box that is 16 inches on each side, that is the amount of light of 1 "nit".
    1000 nits is to say that you crammed 1000 candles in that box.
    Isn't that blinding after a point?

    Yes, it is, but we're measuring the brightest point possible in that in much the same way in the scale model example we're measuring the highest point of the Empire State building possible. We're not saying everything is 1450 feet in the air. That would be a hovering flat disc; not a building.
    We're quoting the highest peak an implicitly understanding that below that is filled in relative to that height according to the scale.
    So if it's 16 feet tall as a model, we can visualize the range of the building pretty easily from that one number - our brain fills in the image rather easily - we don't even think about it.

    The nit thing is the same. We're quoting the highest point and filling in the rest until we hit the ground - the darkest point.

    In a similar way our brain does for a building.

    Now, the conversion works the way scale models work in our mind. A model of the Falcon looks like a big object when we're shown a human in a chair in the cockpit, and then we see the cockpit in relation to the rest of the ship. What we just did was turn a model a few feet in diameter into a giant ship that towers over us.
    The actual object didn't change. We changed our visualization of it by inserting more feet between parts of the ship than there were.

    This is what HDR does with light.
    It takes the brightest light and the lowest light.
    Then it pushes the brightest light to (up to) a couple thousand nits.
    Now the distance between the brightest point and the darkest point (maximum) isn't 50 candles. It's thousands of candles.
    That's a lot of feet between parts on the model!

    So here's also where the problem comes in.
    What should the brightest point of a shot be?
    Should every shot be 2000 nits bright as the brightest point?

    Hmm. * looks at Batman 1989 * mmm...Probably not.

    Sooo...what should it be?

    The real answer is...nothing.
    It's 0 divided by 0; undefined.

    It should be decided by a trained human who knows what it should look like by selecting a pleasing setting manually.

    That, unfortunately, takes a lot of time.
    So, like everything else, for most things we turn to automation.
    Then we protect the problems by setting a limit.
    A false ceiling.
    If our 3D printer is going to automate scale models for us, we probably don't want it attempting 40 foot high models just because the design that came through would scale to that at the default foot per pixel computation.

    But what limit?
    Well. How about the limit of 1080p? We know that's good because we mastered the film to that, so we know it's safe and won't blow out.
    That's around 200 to 300 nits.

    Cool, we're good.
    Not quite.

    What does a TV capable of 2000 nits think of a 200 nit max image?
    Eh...that depends.

    And this comes back to the HDR method used.

    Some are scalable while others are fixed.
    Meaning, some will translate that 200 nit to the max value of the TV and spread the difference.
    Others will translate that 200 nit straight over with no adjustment, so if you have a 2000 nit screen that 200 nit can cause the image to look dim if the image is full of pixel areas far less than the 200 nit artificial ceiling.

    So...it all depends how they do the conversion.
    If they automate it to 200 or 300 nits, then it comes down to your TV.
    If you have a Dolby Vision in your TV, then you should be fine regardless.
    If you have HDR10, it could be rough if the content is low nit ceilinged (e.g. Solo).
    If you have HDR10+...flip a coin. Basically, if you have a top end high brand big TV, then your HDR10+ is probably good. If you have a smaller TV or a budget TV, maybe not so much. Because Samsung (HDR10+ developer) permits scaling the technology by manufacturers, something Dolby Vision does not.

    So there you have it.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  14. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel Official

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    What he said


    As someone who's slowly converting my bluray library to 4k, the jump between 1080p to 4k isn't nearly as big of a jump that 720p and 1080p was but it's still noticeable. One example I can think of is The Martian. On the standard bluray version, the control panels in the various ships are blurry while the 4k version the same controls are clearer. 4k allows the more details to be shown in the background and makes the picture looks brighter. But once you watch a true 4k movie on a a nice set up, you don't want to go back.
     
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  15. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    Kind of yes, kind of no.

    The point is to bring more light into the shot.
    Why?
    Higher fidelity.

    However that doesn't mean higher resolution.

    The 4k part, yes. Just higher resolution through either transfer or upscale if older, or possibly native if new.

    The bigger part everyone notices, HDR, no.
    HDR isn't about sharpness.

    It's about vividness.

    Similar, but different.
    It's the difference between the visual idea of "flat" and "pop".
    Muted tones of color and light don't grab our eye as much as bright light with contrasting colors.

    HDR came about as the final solution of color improvement. Sony thought they had it by adding yellow, but that didn't pan out as well as HDR did because HDR is dynamic and scalable.

    Think of HDR's pupose like an old painting that gets restored. It didn't get higher resolution. It's still the exact same painting, but hundreds of years of grime have been taken off and now the colors just pop alive. If you're used to seeing it the old way, it's a BIG jump.

    That's what the HDR part is about.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  16. Phil J

    Phil J Guest

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    Looks cool but also super-expensive... Then again, I have seen worse.
    upload_2020-2-28_19-29-17.png
     
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