Has your TLJ opinion changed dramatically over time?

No he wasn't demoted, but his character was portrayed differently then the usual hero who gets the girl. That goes to the narrative in the YouTube video as PT Anakin subverted our expectations because many expected him to be as cool as Han Solo. But he wasn't good with girls as he was awkward talking about hating Sand when he was flirting, where Han threw quick one liners at Leia. He cried in front of Padme and needed emotional support from her, where Han simply said before going into Carbonite, "I know." Anakin didn't get demoted, but there was consequences for his love for Padme as that eventually brought him down as Jedi. His love for her was his undoing in ROTS because he became obsessed about a dream that he thought would be happen.

The bottom line is most male heroes are portrayed more like Han Solo in movies, and very few are portayed like Anakin (unless they are stereotypical nerds like The Big Bang Theory), which goes to my point that SW has always been ahead of the curve of this guys Youtube analysis. The difference is Lucas never talked about or wrote in a way that is was transparent, or even obvious. Leia was a feisty women in 1977, which was very rare in movies back then, Lando was an Afircan-American in 1980 and got a major role in 1983, and Anakin wasn't this cool 'womanizing' hero in 2002. These type of characters were pretty rare in those time periods, but now we take them for granted.

 

I think when Ani dropped "are you an angel" in TPM, everyone gave up hope he was ever going to be cool or smooth.

 

I used that line at a 6th grade dance on a girl, and it worked!

 

You're braver than I thought

 

I met Anakin's in my day. Guys who were gifted (mostly athletically) and thought the world was supposed to be given to them on a platter. The scene early in AOTC when Padme is packing in particular was perfect example of that. He complains that ObiWan is holding him back. Then again when Palpatine places him on the Jedi council he then complains that isnt good enough because he wasnt promoted to Jedi master. The quarterback complaining that his coach/teammates were holding him back, even though time and again he is given gifts. When it was his immaturity holding him back. Anakin also never felt until very far in the future that his love for Padme brought down his being a Jedi. In fact it is the reverse he felt his following too many Jedi rules for too long brought down his relationship with Padme and ultimately cost her life.

 

I must admit, I don't really understand any of the arguments over who's male, female, black, white and so on in this movie.
My problems with it are purely based around the wider narrative, its tone, and its delivery...

 

The problem with Anakin for me is that i never felt sympathetic towards him in the PT, not even as a child. His love for his mother was never truly shown on the screen, only referred to... There was never an appropriate depiction of his virtues and his flaws in a way that, when the balance leaned towards the flaws side, i did not feel his loss as much as I should have. It is true that ROTS tried to remedy the audience’s attachment to him, but for me it was almost too late and therefore too melodramatic.

 

Not really. I liked it leaving the theatre and I still like it. Rian Johnson seemed to have good character ideas but the overall story left a lot to be desired. I have no idea why they insist on using the skeleton of a the corresponding OT movie and writing the movie around that.

 

I'm in the same boat. It doesn't matter to me what gender, orientation, or race a character is as long as that character is a rounded character with desires and motivations, and who has the agency to act in some way that drives the plot forward. I just wanted good characters who were authentic in their actions and growth.

In the case of TLJ, we saw distinct interpretations of the cast we met in TFA. Ryan has strong opinions about who these people are and what causes them to behave the way they do. He has strong opinions on what they should learn or experience due to who they are at the beginning of TLJ and how they get to where they are at the end of the film. For me, he either misses the point or dramatically misrepresents characters in the film, some of whom had been with audiences since the beginning. The specifics of this have already been hashed out and argued over in other threads so I won't extend this post further than necessary, but for me, few of these characters felt like natural extensions of the people we met in TFA and who we left at its conclusion.

 

There's very little character development in TFA. It's just an introduction to the Rey/Finn/Poe/Kylo. Rey is a scavenger who chooses the force. Finn is runaway who likes his friend Rey. Poe is a Restance pilot. Kylo is a maniac for some unknown reason. That's basically all we got out of TFA. That's not a criticism, there's only so much you can do in a film. Also, Luke has changed in TFA. He's not there. He's left his friends to their devises so that has to be explained in TLJ. The Luke we knew 30 years ago doesn't fit into TFA.

I get some people don't like the choices made in TLJ, but the choices made fit into what happens in the TFA.

Finn has to choose to fight for something other than Rey. Poe has to learn about leadership. Rey has to overcome being rejected by Luke and her parents. We learn more about what set Kylo down the path to the darkside. We learn why Luke walked away from his friends.

I'm confident that this film will grow over time, because the arcs are great and people will unlearn what they have learned.

 

I would love to get everyone attitude about TLJ and the future of the franchise on this survey that I created using Google.

It should take two minutes and is anonymous.

I will publish the results of the survey in this thread on November 10th 2018. Should be pretty cool cause google gives you graphs and analysis tools!

Thanks everybody

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1...ni89Nc4WIbFSox5J3Jp7r58w/viewform?usp=sf_link

 

Done!

 

Have the results been posted?

 

Over time, my appreciation of this masterpiece has grown. I have it on moviesanywhere and watch scenes over and over again.....

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 16, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 16, 2018 ---

Hey just a nit-pick but your age question needs to be clarified a bit.....you have some ages repeated i.e. for example if you are 26 do you click "20-26" or "26-30"

 

Anything happening with this?

 

The 1 year anniversary of TLJ is here this week so there has been a lot of talk of the movie again and what we think.

Ironically, I will be always mixed on the film after watching is several times on Bluray.

If I watch it as it’s own entity and don’t think of the Saga or the previous 7 movies, I really enjoy TLJ.

If I watch as part 8 of the 9 part Saga narrative, then the movie doesn’t work for me.

You think Kylo is conflicted? I have to decide if I want to continue enjoying it as a standalone movie or disregard it altogether cause it doesn’t work as a Saga movie.

Sincerely,
Truly conflicted...... lol!

 

He joined, dropped that survey link and hasn’t logged in since.

I have a dim view of people that abuse the cantina like that. not the first and won’t be the last.. such is life !

 

He probably didn't get the results he wanted. Anyone interested in scientific polling and what people actually thought of film will find an overwhelming majority of people liked it.

 

My experience mirrors a great many of you also.

During my first viewing, although there were aspects I truly loved, the disappointment I felt at how precisely Luke’s story came to an end (at least in the corporeal sense) was overriding all other thoughts. Luke is/was such a boyhood icon and we’d all waited so long to discover the next chapter in his tale and it was a short, sweet, underwhelming experience. Like so many I wanted to see a Luke in his prime and felt after first viewing that we just didn’t get that.

Then I rewatched it.....

We actually did see a Luke in his prime, just not in the way we might’ve expected. He sacrificed himself to ensure the Resistance could live to fight another day, he schooled Kylo in the process, demonstrated just how powerful he was, and I’m pretty sure there is a plan for him in the next instalment.

Every time I rewatch I find something else to be enthralled by. The desperate situation the Resistance finds itself in, Poe’s journey and his transformation into a leadership role through the lessons he learnt in the film, the interplay between Kylo and Rey, the conflict within Kylo etc. I even don’t mind the Canto Bight scenes as much as I did during the first few viewings as I see the point of it all. I find myself extremely excited for the next instalment and I hope it is as bold and brave as TLJ is. I don’t want formulaic, I want different.

 

That's good. For me, it is the opposite. I felt best about it the first time I viewed it. After that, my opinion of it got worse and worse. There are things about the film I like, but for the most part, I really dislike it. Canto Bight is, for me, especially problematic. But it's good that you enjoyed it.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 16, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 16, 2018 ---

Perhaps part of the problem with the PT was that we know how it ends. At least for me it was. Add to that the fact that George had a great story idea, but the execution was something to be desired. I think Lucas could have done a better job establishing the idea that Anakin was attached to his mother, but that's just my opinion.