Has your TLJ opinion changed dramatically over time?

You give him way too much credit lol.

He was never going to share results.. he joined to drop the link. We got cold-called to complete a survey.

the downside to having 9000+ members lol

 

I always wonder why do people do stupid crap like that. What's the point? Oh well. Whatever, back to more important things like arguing about the positives and negatives of the Last Jedi.

 

I think Lucas biggest mistake is TPM Anakin from young/innocent boy to AOTC whiny Anakin. Anakin should have been more likeable in AOTC (with the underlying personality trait that he has a Darkside). I just didn’t like AOTC Anakin, so I honestly didn’t care what happened to him in ROTS. That is where the Trilogy fell like a house of cards for me.

Kylo Ren is the opposite as I LOVE his character and wish he could have been Anakin (it helps that Adam Driver is a really good actor). Kylo Ren is essentially the bad guy in the ST yet he’s still likeable and sympathetic. When he Force talks to Rey in TLJ, you really feel for the guy, yet you hate him when he wants to kill Luke at the end, yet you sympathize him when he picks up the dice and Rey closes the door to the Falcon. If Kylo Ren were Anakin, then the PT is a whole different ballgame to me.

 

I echo this completely! Great post!

 

There are a lot of elements (very intentionally) introduced in TFA to foster our sympathy for Kylo. In the first scene of the film we witness how Lor San Tekka reprimands him and treats him with that firm familiarity of an older relative talking to a wayward child, reminding him of an origin he cannot deny (hinting strongly at him being the son of Han and Leia). All this makes the audience have a sense of lost and regret, and yes, sympathy, even when Kylo kills the old man in cold blood... We somehow leave the scene intrigued, asking ourselves: why did the son of Han and Leia turned out this way?

It's only later when we realise that this new villain is, in reality, a fraud and the excellent way in which this is presented is a credit to JJ’s intuition as a character driven storyteller and filmmaker. There are glimpses of of Kylo’s dubious commitment to the dark from the very beginning, when masked Kylo looks at masked Finn in the Jakku village after Finn "turns good". This is the moment in which he experiences that “call of the light” he later confessed to Vader's melted mask. The first time I saw TFA I was intrigued and somewhat confused about that scene in which both masked characters faced each other and I only understood the meaning of it in subsequent viewings. The brilliance of TFA is that it unveiled Kylo’s conflict without hammering it. It is displayed not only through lines of quality dialogue: “he(Han) means nothing to me”. “You are scared you’ll never be as strong as earth Vader,” but also through excellent directorial decisions such as having Adam act with his mask on at the start, offering us Kylo’s inner conflict a little at a time. I just love TFA. It's a very elegant film.

For me Lucas made the terrible mistake of taking us by the hand when showing us Anakin's angst, contriving cheesy moments of inner conflict, forcing poor Hayden Christensen to act in a teenagery fashion, instead of letting the actor breathe and work through the process in his own way... I don't know. I always felt that Ewan McGreggor was terribly underused in the trilogy too. Shame that Obi Wan film is not being made anymore!

And sorry, folks, for derailing this thread with Kylo vs Anakin talk!

 

I think there are probably a lot of things in TLJ that we’ll go back to later, after the third movie has come out, and say, oh yeah, now it all makes sense! We’ll see how Luke’s plan unfolds (surely he didn’t just leave the trilogy like that?), we’ll discover who rey descends from and why she’s so powerful, and why she’s linked to Kylo... the entire plot will be revealed and the previous two movies will suddenly seem better.
It’s a bit like watching Rogue One... it’s still a good movie on its own, but what makes it even better is knowing the entire plot that surrounds it, and how it fits in with all the rest.

 

I've recently watched several Creed 2 reviews and the film pundits emphasized that the film follows the Rocky formula. They also suggest that if the film didn't follow the formula or change the recipe it wouldn't have been a good film. Rocky 5 didn't follow the Rocky formula and disappointed allot of fans and its viewed as the worst in the franchise. Could this be the case for TLJ? I'm wondering, if RJ followed the Star Wars formula would the film be less divisive? Does Star Wars have a formula? Did JJ follow the formula for TFA? Did RJ abandon the formula?

 

Recently I've come to the conclusion that this story is being told differently, seemingly more chaotically. That's mostly because we're not understanding.

In the previous two trilogies, we had a focus on one character, or a team. Luke in the OT, Anakin and close second Kenobi in the PT. The ST seemed to be following this with Rey at the beginning, but even by the end of TFA we started to realize Kylo was sharing that starring role. With TLJ, Luke ends up taking his own dominant role in the trilogy, taking screen time away from both Kylo and Rey.

So for me, I see Rey's progression has stalled. Unlike others, I'm doing my best not to say this so much as a criticism, but rather a variance on style and the story being told. It doesn't have me like TLJ more, but it gives me hope for the ST and saga's beyond. Rey's story slowed, Kylo's quickened and Luke's living story has ended. I'm assuming Rey will be center in IX, Kylo has already taken his big steps and now will have to face Rey at his full potential. I think we may see the ST end unresolved on many fronts and Rey will get her first major setbacks and we get a Kylo who's establishing himself as the new big bad. The first two movies were essentially Anakin in AotC.

The story overall is progressing slower, and as SW fans, we're not used to that. The lack of a time jump between episodes created this, and I think the only way to mediate this is to understand that the story is not being told as quickly, that the characters are not growing at the pace of characters in previous sagas, thus it stands to reason they'll need more movies to tell the stories. In that sense, we'll get more detail on the main characters along the way. Though definitely close to movie format, the story we'll be getting will have some resemblance to a TV series like GoT. The story quite simply won't be pushed ahead as quickly on all fronts in every episode.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's been my observation and my reasoning of late. I seem to speak in absolutes in the beginning, but it is all just guess work on my part. I think it's right, but I'll see as the movies keep rolling out.

 

One year later I still find this malarkey to be nonsense poppycock. Terribley underwritten, misogynistic and some what disturbing. I still have bouts of depression thinking about it. This could of being one of the greatest films ever but it fails on so many different levels. Am hoping for better in the future until next time, I retire from TLJ boards once again, although, I still read with broken heart. Farewell my dear pirates and see you in the IX thread. Tally ho!

 

So, I watched it today and guess what? It's still great. I love it.

 

I'm thankful I've never had this type of reaction to any piece of subjective entertainment.

It's a fine chapter and hopefully it's a sign of the future of the franchise.

 

Nope. I was one of those who called out every single thing I didn't like during my first viewing. I didn't leave the theatre dumbfounded, taking weeks or months to figure out the vast problems with the film (which is what I've heard most reviewers saying). But, then again, the same happened to me during The Force Awakens. Maybe it's because I'm a filmmaker myself. I don't know.

 

Oh really!? What films have you made? It's always nice to meet and discuss things with talented people.

 

I'm in film school, but it's always nice to hear people dismiss your opinions just because you're not a star. It's like you're not allowed to comment on state-level politics if you're a local politician. Spare me with your intellectual sarcasm.

 

If you label yourself a filmmaker it is not unreasonable for someone to ask what films you have made .

 

I was wrapping presents for Christmas and decided to watch TLJ again while wrapping and saw that I could now watch the music only version through the Xbox One movie app (never noticed it before). So watched that version and OMG I loved it. Amazed at how well the musical ques aligned with the emotions of the movie. I would love music only versions of the PT. I really think I would enjoy more without some of the cringe worthy dialogue, which is really the only issues I have with the PT.

So have to say I continued to love TLJ more each time I watch it.

 

1 year later, and I'm still mixed. I think it's a great standalone movie, and can enjoy it without thinking of the Saga narrative. I don't think it's a good Saga movie, as it doesn't work for me if I'm thinking about the big picture narrative of the Skywalker Saga. I maybe mixed forever! lol!

 

This could change for everyone once Ep9 comes out. People like me who love TLJ could change our view as well as other people who really dont like TLJ may realize that the ST part of the Saga works.

 

So I watched TLJ twice in theatre. First viewing I was very mixed. Really enjoyed parts of it, really disliked others. 2nd only further strengthened those thoughts. I then went almost a calendar year without watching it at home, which for me is shocking. Just didn't have the urge.

So when I finally did over the break (did not buy blu ray, waited for quality copy on Netflix), I liked it much more I will say. Once the acceptance of certain things is long cemented, you begin to appreciate what's on screen.

Yes, there are times when Rian is careless with characters (in my opinion) and with the universe (Luke/Rey with the sabre, the attempts at humor), but there are times when he hits the notes so perfectly (Luke/R2 reunion, Kylo/Rey speak through the force). I think that's the biggest issue. (said a million times I'm sure) but how divisive it is. Regardless, in the end, a movie with this many fans and followers and expectations cannot disappoint as heavily as it did, and it certainly did. There is no coming back from it, hopefully JJ can make us understand Rian's decisions better in Ep. 9

 

Nope.

I loved it in 2017.
I loved it in 2018.
I love it in 2019.