Official Finn Episode VIII thread

When you're getting the best person for the job, it's not always clear what that is.

It's different if you're hiring for one person on a single job, like say, the CEO. But if you're hiring for a group, especially a creative or dynamic group, diversity is almost always an advantage, and often the diverse selection is the best choice for the job.

I think it's often something that gets lost in the conversation when people say "Why don't we just hire the best person available.", it's not always that clear. How do you determine that? Grades? Education? Work experience? Life experience? Fame? Family? References? Religion? Ethnicity? Gender? Sexual orientation? Wealth? Relationship status?

I say all of the above, but not always the obvious. Look to get what your group is lacking to gain a different perspective.

In my experience, in a group dynamic, you want to cover all the bases because every new perspective has value. People from different backgrounds bring different ideas to the table. Someone with no formal, or outdated education can have insights due to their background that the new grad with the 4.0 gpa may never have considered, and certainly had never lived. In some cases, less could be more.

 

The actual reasons Why SOLO bombed:

1. It was a movie about Han Solo not starring Harrison Ford, but a relatively-unknown actor who neither looked, sounded or acted convincingly like Ford's Solo.
2. No one was ever desperately seeking a movie about the life of the young Han Solo to begin with.
3. The trailers and promotion did little to generate any real widespread enthusiasm for the movie, even among fans.
4. The on-set drama of the directors' firing generated extremely negative buzz that the film was a complete mess and that Disney was expecting a bomb.
5. The final film and its critical response simply wasn't good enough to generate significant word of mouth.

Yet all these obvious indicators are ignored and the whole thing is blamed on a perceived TLJ backlash to support the argument of TLJ critics.

 

i think no.1 is very subjective.. it only took me 30 seconds of seeing and hearing Alden to become immersed in the movie and accept him as Han, but that's a personal thing.

the rest - yep, and add to that the utterly sucky release slot they gave it among and shortly after some massive movies. As big a Star Wars nut as i am.. the multiple viewings of other movies i went to shortly before Solo released did mean that i had to watch my spending.. so didn't see it as many times as i normally would. RP1, Black Panther, DP2 i all saw many times before i watched Solo.. i was skint at the end of May!

they won't stop saying it. some of them are on a personal crusade to doomsay the whole franchise because they didn't like one movie.

 

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 13, 2018, Original Post Date: Sep 13, 2018 ---

The Fan Blacklash is so deep many of you don't see it, because it might not be dominant on this site, but its is very clear on other websites, and social media , movies reviews by fans and comments on the movie by fans all over the net, websites that sells TLJ like Amazon its comment and review section also shows its split the fans who did not like it and even claim not seeing no more star wars movies until Disney changes its agenda with Star Wars. Rotten Tomatoes' review of the Last Jedi is real.

That list you made is also part of the movie failing. But who said in 9 you wont get the same thing? No Luke Skywalker alive so who cares to see 9 now, Cary Fisher is not alive CGI and old shoots from TFA not enough to sell her, Rey already beat Kylo Ren in TFA and in TLJ so what's in 9 she beats him again nothing to look forward to seeing. From the Leaked Photos that came out of Poe and Finn it all is a rehash of Endor from The Return of the Jedi, nothing new. And Reylo Fandom's fans won't save 9 alone. Disney also recognize the Backlash is real this is why they bring back the Clone Wars, Leaking images and plots for 9 to see if the Fans like it or not because they don't want another lost.


If Disney and Lucasfilm was not smart enough to save Solo from the start and did not see it was heading for disasters who's to say they know what they are doing with Star Wars. These last two movies was Disney trying to Rehash George Lucas's Star Wars and KK not doing a good job with it.

 

I'll disagree with point 1 as well, I thought Alden's Han Solo was more than sufficient and so was Donald Glover's Lando. I mean let's be real, it's not like Ewan McGregor bore a striking resemblance to Sir Alec Guinness nor sounded like him but his portrayal was believable enough, it took nothing away from the movie just like Alden didn't. Subjective observation of course, still one worth making.

It's interesting that you think on-set drama and resulting bad press hampered SOLO... but you don't think bad press from TLJ affected SOLO. Not sure how that works. I mean (just for example) there are tons of negative reviews on youtube right now for TLJ. You couldn't throw a proverbial rock without hitting one. One might think there would be similar negative reviews for SOLO saying that Alden just didn't capture Han's essence or that this movie just wasn't necessary. But by and large, such reviews just don't exist (I found 2). In fact most of the accusations about what made SOLO bad were attributed to overt and reoccuring SJW themes, not Han, not how he was portrayed, not on set drama, not bad press. These certainly have been the talking points, but I don't see any hard data supporting it.

There were plenty of people that disliked TLJ who said they would boycott SOLO. I don't remember hearing many people who liked TLJ saying they wouldn't go see SOLO (especially since it would bolster the argument that there was a backlash). So maybe SOLO doesn't break any records (with a divided fan base) but surely it wins the support of those who liked TLJ - and rakes in more than $218 million - no? It makes you wonder exactly who was the vocal minority; was it the fans that hated TLJ (as has been repeatedly asserted), or the ones who defended it, and said it was fine, and initially said there was no backlash and that SOLO tickets were selling just fine?

I think subverting Finn's character twice, shoveling Bizzaro Luke on a fandom who had waited for 40 years for nothing of the sort, combining the worst possible developments for Rey (pissing off fanboys by not having her earn her skill or giving her an actual obstacle to overcome, and pissing off progressives by making her a secondary function of Kylo and Luke's interaction in a trilogy that was supposed to be about her) ruined TLJ and created a head wind for all movies that would come behind it. People are talking about boycotting EPIX because TLJ and EPIX isn't even in the can yet. Do we really think SOLO escaped this ire? It was everything BUT angry fans disaffected by TLJ that ruined SOLO? I somehow doubt that.

 

It's not about derailing or sinking the franchise. It's concern from a fan that if we keep getting (in our opinion) a weaker product that will harm the franchise moving forward (whether that be harming old characters, to unnecessarily adding unprecedented events, to lack of planning and direction ect ect ect... just look at the hate thread for examples). I've stated it before, it seems those fans who love TLJ are surrounded by like minded people while those who hate it are surrounded by others who hate it. So in some cases I think we're both blinded by circumstance and immediate surroundings. That's why comments like "the backlash has nothing to do with Solo's failure" is inflammatory, as well as short sighted. Just the same as those who say Solo's failure is only due to the backlash. There's a mix in there, what the proportions are I won't and don't venture guessing, I just know I see that dislike for TLJ has had an impact on SW and will probably continue to have an impact on SW until it's addressed.

How Disney/LFL ect choose to address it moving forward could vary, but blaming fans for disliking it has largely backfired. If anything it has inflamed the backlash (even if we give RJ and company the benefit of the doubt and accept their criticism was not aimed at merely those who dislike the movie, but at cretins, much of that is lost as they don't address or even admit that there is a legitimate dislike for the movie that is not based on racism, sexism ect...). KK has been quiet of late, and I think that may be the simplest approach. As in most things, if you don't add fuel, the fire dies.

I've been pretty quiet on this front for some time, focusing on other aspects of SW, even venturing into theories for IX. Whenever I see someone dismiss my dislike and that of other fans on TLJ by saying things like it had "no impact" on Solo, it takes me back and I feel a need to address the comment. Which starts the whole cycle over again. Fans then focus on the difference instead of focusing on what we have in common. I'm not saying fans shouldn't be allowed to voice their opinion one way or another, but I think it's important to note and realize what the effect is when you do. If you want peace in the fandom, dismissing your counterparts opinion is not the way to achieve that.

Edit: There's a big difference between a statement of fact and an opinion. There are not facts on this issue as of yet, it's all supposition and guess work. Sometimes somewhat educated guesses, but most if not all are biased based on your opinion of TLJ.

 

I be honest I viewed the last Jedi over 25 times or more watching it at home, and I can say this the more I watched it the more I hate it. The more I watched it the more I see Rian Johnson really trolled the Fandom with his movie, the first Trolled all those who love Luke Skywalker great image he set on thousands of people young and old, those who are old to star wars and new comers. RJ destoryed it.

RJ also trolled us Finn's fans, Luke got it the worst than Finn and the remaining male characters.
How did Rian Johnson trolled Finn's Fans let me show you here:


First in 8 when we seen Finn in the Backta suit and he screamed Rey's name we was hoping to see him do great things but instead he falls out the bed.

Then RJ Trolled us those who wish for Finn to be a jedi or to see him with the Lighsaber again or show that he is force sensitive. So RJ trolls us by having Finn look like Luke in the Return of the Jedi wearing black and walking with stormtroopers, and Fighting someone with a Mask. Knowing he had no plans to make him a Jedi or even Force Sensitive .





Then he troll us again by not giving Finn a lightsaber but a crowd control battalion




Luke fights Vader , RJ trolled us by instead having Finn fight Phasma and she wears a mask and a black cape such as Vader.





He trolled us Finn fans who want to see him as a jedi or use the force, to make him look like Luke Skywalker but no jedi, no lightsaber but crowd control battalion.

Rian Johnson further trolls us by having Finn touch the Jedi book knowing he will be no Jedi, rubbing it in our face.





Then he trolled us the worst here at the base at Crait, when Luke Skywalker walks in and the Resistances sees Luke walk out to the battle, RJ made sure Finn was in no scenes with Luke Skywalker trolling us.....




RJ made sure Finn was not there with Luke Skywalker to kill any Finn and Luke future Fandom and theories and never be any scenes between Finn and Luke Skywalker.

 

@starwarsforever interesting parallels you observed there. Hadn't noticed that before. That said, I don't think (and this is just me) that those elements represents attempts by Rian to troll us. I just think he was vastly indifferent to anything outside of Kylo. I don't think he hated the Finn character, but he would have been happier if he didn't have to waste bandwidth dealing with Finn or Poe. Their arcs (IMO) are pedestrian and uninteresting (Poe moved up in Rank, Finn joined the Resistance, whoopty-doo) because Kylo took center stage. He didn't hate Finn, he just didn't want to be bothered with having to write for him when it wasn't part of the story that he was interested in telling (IMO).

 

I think he was trolling the whole fandom that came about from 7, who is Snoke they was asking so he killed Snoke off. Luke the master Jedi, RJ made him into a bum, who ran away from the Jedi order, he toss away Luke's lightsabeir trolling the fans.

The story RJ wanted to tell I believed he did not make it rather he made the story KK wanted and thus it was the reason why KK gave RJ his own trilogy and the fans were not happy, and JJ open the fans to look forward for 8. Why he did not get his own trilogy but RJ does, it makes no sense except RJ made the movie KK really wanted. Behind the scene for TLJ the Canto Bite scene you can hear the guy who did the set up and costumes said a casino does not belong in a Star Wars movie, Mark Hamil saying he disagree with everything RJ wanted to do. You see so many scenes RJ with KK in their office together, get togethers, RJ made the movie she wanted . It was a crap movie.

 

I also find it interesting that everything BUT upset fans influenced the failure of Solo. While the things listed most likely added to the problem, the portion of the fanbase upset about the path of TLJ, post-release antics by LucasFilm representatives toward criticism and continued antics by some like Rian, added to the issue. As you said, you can easily go to YouTube and find fans of all skin colors, genders, etc. complaining about the path of TLJ, these antics then voicing their displeasure with some of the things from Solo.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 14, 2018, Original Post Date: Sep 14, 2018 ---

I personally think it might be a bit of both. Given some of Rian's ways, I could fully see him trolling the fandom in some ways with Finn, especially the Force Sensitivity bit. However, I can also agree with Rayjefury that R.J. was obsessed with Kylo and by extension Rey and just not that interested in Poe, Finn, etc.

 

the great irony of that statement.. is that i've barely spoken about my opinion of TLJ since the movie came out last year.

i loved it.. sure, but i've not sat in threads discussing all the scenes to the nth degree like we normally would with a SW movie.
the most i've spoken about the movie is in the hate thread.

i won't discuss it properly here until the negativity improves. 9 months on.. doesn't look likely does it?
sounds stupid? aye it probably is.. and i'm not the only one.

 

Discussing it properly doesn't even matter anymore, because you either get bashed for loving or hating the movie. It sucks... Hopefully this changes with the release of EPIX.

 

exactly (..exactly )

nothing that anyone says here will impact on the movie JJ is making, but it certainly could have an effect on the mindset many of us have walking into the theater next December.

we need to move on and try and look forward to what comes next. if we're all friends by the time the next movie comes out.. then we can be there for each other if it all goes Pete Tong ('wrong' for those not getting my london ism's )

 

It's not easy love, but you've got friends you can trust
Friends will be friends
When you're in need of love they give you care and attention
Friends will be friends
When you're through with life and all hope is lost
Hold out your hand 'cause friends will be friends
Right till the end

 

I think it depends on the argument you make. Generally I have not seen people proactively intercept posts that were made that simply talked about why they liked TLJ. There have been plenty that have been offered for posts that were made that said why they didn't like TLJ.

That notwithstanding, on both sides, if you make a reasonable argument, I don't think you necessarily get bashed, folks may not agree with you, but you won't get bashed. I think where the conversations get derailed (and become toxic to a degree) is when one or both parties project presumptive analysis onto the thoughts of others. The "fanboy" and "head canon" accusations have driven more than their fair share of discussion into the dirt.

If I can accept that you like the movie, and you can accept that I don't, we do need to try to proscribe motivations for one another. I just didn't like it. You just did like it (you being the figurative "you"). And if we can accept that, there is no need to police how often or how frequently someone expresses their like or dislike.

I did not like Finn's handling in this movie. If folks can take that at face value, I'm fine if they don't necessarily agree.

 

This has absolutely destroyed all manner of discussion. It all devolves into fan club wars

 

Alden's Solo was not convincing. At no time watching that movie did I think that this was the same guy who was going to walk into a Mos Eisely cantina a few years down the line and meet a farm boy and a wizard. Not even close. Ewan McGregor had the advantage of playing Kenobi 20-30 years before Guiness's Kenobi, so I don't see that as the same as Alden playing Solo only a few years before Ford's Solo.

The negativity for TLJ you're talking about only came after the film's release by people who didn't like the film and vented online about it. This is not "bad press," this is fanboys complaining online, which is what they always do when the movie they anticipated doesn't turn out exactly the way they constructed it in their own heads. Solo was received better by these same people, because it was another helping of safe fan service, like Rogue One. If it was such an amazing movie and so much better than TLJ, word of mouth would've made it successful and people would put aside their dislike of TLJ and seen the film.

I liked TLJ and I only saw Solo once and had no desire to see it again. I had no real anticipation to see it opening weekend like the other films and didn't end up seeing it 'til the following week. So the repeat business that typically boosts SW film's grosses probably wasn't there since it wasn't a film you felt you needed to see 4-5 times. I never expected Solo to do TLJ numbers at the box office, and when it failed, it wasn't a surprise to me for tall the reasons I already gave. Not because of some goofball boycott nonsense. Episode IX will not fail in a similar fashion as Solo. Mark my words. I remember the same types of fanboys saying they would not see Episode III out of disdain for the prequels, but that film did fine, so will Ep. IX.

 

It's harsh but we gotta accept it. Finn is clearly a side character now. Cmon don't try to deny it.

 

He isn't a side character. He's still a main character in TLJ, mainly because of Rose.

 

<----


This right here @Maximus have been the types of comments that get bashed, one way or the other (lover or hate of TLJ).

Presentation is key. I was called on it early on when I started posting on here because I was doing the same. I took the criticism of my presentation to heart and made modifications. Read most of my posts now and I have "(imo)" and "feel" all over my post because I realize it's subjective. I proof read and some of my posts come off like the one above, like I somehow know what's coming next. None of us do, but making statements such as the last line of above post, well, when I'm proof reading (more for content then grammar or spelling) and I see such a statement, I'll add a (imo) just to be clear and not ruffle anyone's feathers needlessly.

I'm not saying this is exclusive to whether you support or trash TLJ, this example just came up so soon after exactly what was being talked about it was too hard to pass up. I'm not even saying I disagree with many of his ideas (I actually agree with 90+%), other than dismissing the impact TLJ had on Solo. I also realize that's my opinion, but so is the statement above merely an opinion. I think the whole of the fandom needs to learn to adjust their communication style to the present atmosphere. I changed because I wanted people to hear what I had to say, and not nitpick on the way I said it. When someone works in absolutes in things that have not happened yet, I realized they are not being taken seriously, and my message isn't even being heard, because I can't possibly know what's going to happen in 1+ years and nor do I have an accurate model of every fan across the world. I'm relegated to making statements based on my opinion, my circle of friends, and the sense that I get talking in these forums.

Ergo, imo, I "think" EpIX will make less than TLJ at the box office, but will still surpass Solo easily. I think it will flirt with 1B. After the ST is done and the OT 3 are gone forever, I suspect SW's new golden goal will be 1B and the days of counting or anticipating mid range to challenging 2B will be over until a new product comes to inspire all it's fans once more.

See how that is phrased. I leave it open to people disagreeing with me, but it doesn't have feel of making a statement of fact. At the same time, I let my opinion be known and those who agree with me can use this as a spring board for their own ideas (just as those who disagree can challenge my statement, knowing full well it's simply a feeling and an opinion). It removes much of the emotional element out of the conversation, which is the part that draws people to bash another's statement. Most importantly is to avoid any mention of box office predictions entirely since they all hold about the same merit, which his absolutely zero. Unless if that's what the thread is about directly or indirectly. Making statements on the profitability of IX or any future SW enterprise in our current environment is playing with fire. Since no one knows, keep that speculation separate from other speculation so as not to derail the new point, or supporting point you want to champion.

You don't have to talk about TLJ, it is the divisive property of the SW universe right now. I know you love it, so for better or worse, I can see insinuation and the goal of your statement (if it can really be called that, I personally feel I understand you and your longing for what used to be, however others can see it as a want to stop discussion on TLJ in any negative light). I think a place that is relatively safe to discuss your love of scenes is the "love thread". I've ventured in a couple times to see how things were discussed and left quickly because of a compulsion to add my 0.02 yet knowing this wasn't the place. Other places you can safely discuss aspects of TLJ are by creating specific threads. Less searching for others opinions and more discussing said specific scene. I would use a thread I posted a little while back on whether or not the Rebels knew Rey had the force as an example. Very little hate in that thread due to the way it's written. There might be the odd potshot, but don't take the bait. As Ackbar would say, it's a trap.