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Should these films be made? Are they just a cash grab for Disney?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by VOODOO, Sep 7, 2014.

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  1. eko32eko7

    eko32eko7 Rebel Trooper

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    I believe talented individuals are perfectly capable of being bold and passionate while taking risks and still fall flat. Passion, like "risk" or "boldness", has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the actual resulting product.

    The difference with Star Wars, to me, was that a passionate, creative individual chose to tell a meticulously crafted classic high adventure tale of good vs evil which, while intended for 12 years olds, took itself seriously, respected its audience and their intelligence. I have always felt that GL era Star Wars, like philosophy, is, truly, for everyone. You don't have to be an artist or an engineer to enjoy Star Wars, but the content is well crafted enough that both artists and engineers do; that is no easy feat.

    While I love Rogue One (third favorite movie of all time), I cannot connect with the ST. The ST feels, to me, as though its bending over backwards to tell me that I am not welcome. Episode VII, like another of JJ first movies in a franchise gets a pass... kinda'. It's far too vague and non-committal about everything (except Starkiller Base, blegh) to know what to make of it. TLJ, on the other hand, seems like a direct rebuke to fans who have been following this franchise, and contributing to its longevity, for decades.

    I understand there are many who don't see it this way. Your feelings are valid and I'm glad you are having a good time. Many are not able to enjoy the direction in which TLJ took the franchise, however, and it feels, some extent, as though your good time is being had at our expense. Its not just that TLJ is disrespectful to the history of Star Wars, it's that it seems intentionally so.

    To answer the question put forth by the OP: I don't think the ST is simply a money grab, but that is definitely a contributing factor. I will say, however, the priorities and goals of the current PTB are far and away different and, seemingly, mutually exclusive to the priorities of GL era LucasFilm.
     
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  2. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel Official

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    I’m ok with cash grab, just don’t ruin the saga by make no a trilogy just to keep kill off and destroy old hero’s.

    I’d rather they just jump so far ahead that we did not see them ruined r killed off.
     
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  3. Rellum

    Rellum Rebelscum

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    I think the term "flogging a dead horse" is what people are thinking of when they use cash grab to describe a movie. Films are a commercial endeavour but there is artistry and originally there at the start of a new movie/franchise/IP, a real desire on the film makers part to tell a new story. Once that story has played out and we still keep going back then I feel like we are just doing it for no other reason than money.

    I personally feel like we are "just" pushing into flogging that horse with the ST. If we had had new characters, with new stories and maybe gone straight to live action TV at the start then I would feel different. But the mouse house went straight to all the old characters and vehicles and made them the centre of the story even if they weren't the protagonists all the time. Even if Luke, Han and Leia had been small roles, with the X-Wings and lightsabers it would have been ok for me. You do need to keep it in the same universe.

    All my opinion of course.
     
  4. Gonk Droid

    Gonk Droid Rebelscum

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    Each and everyone of us is entitled to his or her own opinion; I personally have no problem at all with what Disney are doing.

    Of course it's a cash grab and yes of course Disney are simply doing it for the money but I honestly don't care. I've thoroughly enjoyed their films.

    In fact I'm getting a bit tired of the Disney bashing that's going on at the moment. Can't we just be happy that a company has huge plans for the GFFA. I'm not saying I'm going to love every film they make but I'd rather have more than less.

    I'm an older Star Wars fan and grew up with the OT but feel many my age are getting caught up in nostalgia and are anti anything new! I agree that TFA was a retelling of ANH, but if it gets a new generation interested in SW then that's great. Disney can't just be expected to turn out films to appease the hardcore SW fans out there.

    I genuinely feel sympathy for those who don't like the direction that Disney is taking Star Wars, however nobody is forcing you to watch these movies. You do have a choice.
     
    #104 Gonk Droid, Mar 30, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
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  5. KyloRen16

    KyloRen16 Clone Commander

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    This is one of those times where I wish I could like posts.
     
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  6. RockyRoadHux

    RockyRoadHux Ginger General

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    Oh wow! You've signed up in 2017?!??? *likes KyloRen16's post*
     
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  7. VOODOO

    VOODOO Rebel General

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    Wow, I wrote this in 2014 and I was 100% correct. The sequels have added nothing (they have actually taken away from the originals. (Ex: The end of ROTJ essentially means nothing now) and are little more than a cash grab for Disney. In the process they killed off and diminished the legendary original characters.

    The story of SW was the rise, fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker. How does a character named Rey (we don’t even know her last name two films into the trilogy) have anything to do with the overall narrative? As George Lucas once famously said “there is no more story to tell” because of that the sequels feel tacked on and unnecessary.

    I hope Episode IX is a vast improvement over TLJ, but I don’t think it will be as Abrams doesn’t have much to work with + it seems impossible to wrap up this undefined trilogy in a single film...At this point I wish the sequels were never made.
     
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  8. ZodaEX

    ZodaEX Rebelscum

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    For some reason this site won't allow me to rate your post like everyone else can so i'll just type it. You sir, Voodoo are a major troll and deserve to be banned.
     
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  9. atreides602

    atreides602 Rebelscum

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    It's a big galaxy , there are stories to be said .. but i have to say they handled it all bad , sw is the holly bible of movie industry , if you don't put 100% passion and dedication in it , don't botter; i was watching an interview with the Russo brothers and they were asked : now that fox is owned by disney, if you have to make a cameo of Deadpoll talking with one of the avengers , how will you guys do it?, and they said : we will lock ourselves in a room and discuss this for 2 hours !! this is what im talking about, not to mention they piched and drafted this avengers 3 and 4 since ... 5 years ago , countless days of talking to make the best of it and it shows, for the first time in my life i'm (way) more hyped about a non star wars movie than a star wars movie.
    They had that historic group or whatever , Pablo Hidalgo was playing games on twitter, they did nothing, they prolly sat in a room for an hour and discussed the entire trilogy ( at least it looks like that ) , almost everything shows lack of interest in producing this movies , like that red guard spinning aimlessly in the throne room fight scene, and i can't shake the feeling that everything is .... small , i don't get the feeling of a vast and wide spread republic or empire like in ot and pt, it looks more like a street fight between some punks and the law forces on a backalley in an ill famed city...
    One more thing , it looks like they keep going with quantity over quality , 2 trilogies, 2 tv shows , you can do that after you showed us that you know what you're doing , untill then stick to 1 movie in 3-4 years and focus on that one only , splash the cash, hire the brains and threat it like it's the holly grail, just my 2 cents.
     
    #109 atreides602, Apr 10, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
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  10. cassidy

    cassidy Rebel Official

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    These films should never have been made. They didn't even plan out a full trilogy story arch. They're garbage.
     
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  11. SKB

    SKB Force Sensitive

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    These films should not have been made. Episode VI had a satisfying conclusion to the Galactic Civil War and the Skywalker family issues. Everyone lived happily ever after. The End. For fans wanting more, The Extended Universe novels added a bit more.

    In the modern era, Disney has wrecked everything that came before. Heroes have been turned into cowards. Decades worth of Extended Universe lore has been consigned to the "Legends" incinerator, as its now worthless non-canon pulp.

    The sequel trilogy has been made purely to make cash and please Disney shareholders. Their new storylines have not added a credible or fathomable story to the established I-VI canon. They have lazily ripped off the earlier stories, pliots and situations from the earlier films as they are too incompetant to write anything credible or new, because "what worked before will work again.and make us more money for the minimum effort"

    Its ironic that Disney opened a Star Wars "Galaxy's Edge" world in its theme park, which doesn't contain anything resembling the established Star Wars universe, only has two "rides" and the rest of this world is a SW-themed mini mall which sells overpriced tacky plastic junk. A shopping mall, that costs $122 to enter on a 1 day pass per person.

    In conclusion, the Sequel Trilogy exemplifies all that is wrong about modern film making and has turned Star Wars from a much loved series of films, into a hugely damaged vehicle for Disney's greed for money.
     
    #111 SKB, Jul 14, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 15, 2019
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  12. LagothZanta

    LagothZanta Rebel Trooper

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    It's funny, when the ST was first announced, my feeling was "Why? The story ended. Whatever they do now will just feel like a pointless epilogue." I remember when ROTJ ended, I never really cared about what happened next, I just wanted to see how Anakin became Vader. So I was excited about the prequels.
    But now, it turns out that I was mostly disappointed with the prequels and I'm largely enjoying the sequels. Go figure. Do I still think they're kind of a pointless epilogue? Yeah, to some degree. But they've been doing a good job entertaining me, and ultimately, that's what matters most. And JJ keeps saying that he found a way to make ROS a true conclusion to the entire saga, so maybe the "pointless epilogue" label will no longer apply. Either way, based on what JJ did with TFA, I fully expect ROS to be very enjoyable.
    And as for it being a "cash grab".... well, yeah, sure they're doing it for money. It's a business. But as long as they keep churning out fun movies, I'm okay with that.
     
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  13. Mosley909

    Mosley909 Rebel Official

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    While I have to admit I am disappointed by the new trilogy, (at least so far always hopeful Rise of Skywalker will change my opinion) I think they 100% should of been made.

    Are they a cash grab? of course they are, but I don't think they are any more of a cash grab then most blockbuster movies, and I'm a sucker for a good blockbuster when they are done correctly. Lets also be fair to Disney they didn't pay 4 Billion to protect Star Wars artistic Merit.

    Where I do criticise Disney and Kathleen Kennedy is simply the lack of planning. There is no question this trilogy has been rushed from start to finish. The only real plan seems to have been lets make some new Star Wars films and release one a year. Their doesn't ever seem to have been a point where they really sat down and went what story do we want to tell with this new trilogy. You have to remember JJ originally ruled himself out of making Episode 7, with a few other directors, and when JJ was brought on board he wanted more time and didn't know what the story was going to be. So he basically had to come up with the story quickly, which is likely why we ended up with a soft remake of a new hope with a mystery box attached. Rian Johnson then wrote a script with by all accounts little input from JJ, without even seeing the final cut of Force Awakens, and now JJ is trying to wrap up a 9 film saga, going from having no script or story to been in cinema's within 2 years. Their is no question this trilogy has been rushed, that doesn't the film are automatically bad becuase they were rushed, but it makes it harder.

    For me I would of loved to have watch a trilogy where it feels like some one really had a strong idea of where the story would go 30 years after Return of the Jedi, but we didn't get that and I am disappointed in Disney and Kathleen Kennedy for that.

    But hey this is just my opinion, and while I may think the Last Jedi feels like an overly obtuse borderline spoof version of Star Wars, lots of people do love it, especially kids and thats great. And I never want to take that away from them. I love the prequels, do they have floors absolutely, but I love them, and I was one of those who got hate and mocked for liking those films, and it always upsets me when I hear things like we should remake the prequels.

    So I would never say these films shouldn't have been made as they have brought joy to many, but unfortunately for me SO FAR the saga films (I love Rogue One though) made by Disney haven't brought the joy I have come in fact the opposite( I left the cinema after Last Jedi really just feeling sad and deflated), but lets hope Rise of Skywalker changes that.
     
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  14. Logray Ewok Medicine Man

    Logray Ewok Medicine Man Rebel Commander

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    I’ve enjoyed both TFA and TLJ (though one much more than the other), so I’m pretty much glad they’ve been made. The one fundamental question I’m not yet ready to answer is whether they are worthy of the saga titles VII and VIII. I think TROS will reveal whether these films are momentous enough to warrant a placement in the epic saga on equal footing as the earlier ones. I haven’t yet been convinced that this is a story that NEEDED to be told, but I am very open to believing that come December.
     
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  15. MK-1187

    MK-1187 Rebel Trooper

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    I think that where Disney is going wrong is your point number 3. Disney is trying its best to please the old fans with nostalgia trips and the new fans with all the new stuff and characters (some of who don't make sense other than to please certain demographs) Lucas did not make things to "get it right" for the fans. He got it right for Star Wars and his own vision, which I think provided a very good story and character arcs throughout the prequel and original trilogies. The two sequels just don't make sense if you don't delve into a ton of extra material. Of course it is nice there is more things you can get out from the movies if you are a die hard fan and read and watch everything Star Wars, but that the base premise of a story (the whole Resistance-New Order thing) is not explained in a movie is just poor film making.
     
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  16. Martoto

    Martoto Force Sensitive

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    It's hard to reconcile the idea that Disney are chiefly interested in profitability through nostalgia with the concurrent narrative that they dropped the ball with getting all the old characters back together and supposedly ruined at least one of them.
     
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  17. Keri Ford

    Keri Ford Clone Commander

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    The idea of doing a sequel trilogy is fine, there is a lot of money involved and that can corrupt artistic vision, this is no longer the story of a maverick film maker trying to make a feel good space opera.
    A new sequel could have extended the story, it seems George had a plan and the EU had some good things, but these were not used and seem to me the main approach in creating TFA was to get that OT vibe and to do that they damaged the story. Between the other 6 movies there are no major continuity breaks, but between 6 and 7 everything breaks, the defeated Empire has risen again as the first order, Luke has gone back to skulking except now he wants to be stuck on a nowhere planet, Han is a smuggler again and Leia finds comfort in politics and they're both single again. If they took this back story seriously they would have told the story of how that terrible reversal came about, but they just have it as back story.
    The way Rey learnt to use the force with no training from a Jedi Master, undermines the mythic quality of the series.
    TFA has none of the oddities of the PT, it feels like a conventional crafted modern movie and it was a huge financial success, I suspect JJ was genuine in his approach, I think he enjoyed making the movie and was happy with it, I'm not, then RJ just made up the next part of the trilogy taking it somewhere else in a direction that made many fans feel like they were being trolled. I mean Lucas has talked about how 70s sci fi was generally dark and cynical and Lucas had the audacity to make an optimistic space fairytale. The PTs follow the fall of the Republic and Anakin so story wise they are darker, but they're filled with a spirit of the fabulous and rich with invention.
    There are instances where someone picked up another persons creation and took it somewhere interesting, but the ST doesn't achieve that, they're big budget well produced movies but they don't have the spirit or the invention.
    Rogue One on the other hand although it is very much a spin off movie, is not greatly ambitious, to me has heart & style, it succeeds in paying homage to the OT by being set just before the OT began.
     
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  18. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Except this is inexplicably false and been disproved time and time again. They have leaned heavily on ideas from George Lucas and the EU at several times during the development of their new materials.
     
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  19. Keri Ford

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    Come on, "inexplicably false", there have been all sorts of reports, Lucas has said he had quite a different trilogy, there have been reports of him having been consulted but they were quite free to ignore his advice and it seems they did. That they de-canonised the EU shows clearly that they didn't follow it.

    from an interview with Abrams

    https://www.slashfilm.com/jj-abrams-interview-star-wars-the-force-awakens/
     
    #119 Keri Ford, Aug 31, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
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  20. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    The whole idea of Luke in isolation as a Col. Kurtz type character is a Lucas thing.
    The idea of a force-sensitive girl being the main protag was a Lucas thing.
    One of the heroes kids turning was a Lucas thing.

    The core of this trilogy comes from Lucas ideas. He [Lucas] had about a million treatments for the ST. One focused entirely on the Whills and midichlorians.

    They used a lot of Lucas' various treatments to create the ST. They just didn't stick with ONE specific treatment.
     
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