THREAD FOR THOSE WHO HATED THE MOVIE

I know what you mean. The first viewing was very overwhelming. I remember being very confused when I left the cinema. It took me a couple of viewings to enjoy the movie as a whole, the storyline, the tone and the beats were not as clear as they were in TFA. It was a very different film and I felt that they somehow did not belonged together.

After a couple of viewings I realised that I had just approached this movie with the wrong mindset. You see, JJ offered something very good and easy in TFA. It was very similar to our first experience of ANH. There was excitement, a world we recognised, a story with beats and characters that were evocative of that first galaxy far far away we had in 77. It was so un-prequel like, so clued in the aesthetic and the themes the fans wanted... (even its detractors admit that much)

And then TLJ came and it was so very different. The film brightness of TFA was gone. Everything seemed darker, more somber, actors looked older, not because they had physically aged... it was because they were being challenged in front of our eyes, I think. I understood after more viewings that Rian wanted to tell his own story, he wanted his own aesthetic and a character evolution that was rich and complex. The story doesn’t flow very well, not even after several viewings, but it has great narrative and dramatic moments that somewhat make up for it I think. The humour is indeed uneven, some jokes land better than others. For me TFA was comedy perfect. I think JJ has a better understanding of comedy.

But you haven’t told me what you like about TLJ! You must like something!

Don’t worry about your English. I’m not a native speaker either... We understand each other, that’s the main thing.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2018, Original Post Date: Sep 27, 2018 ---

It’s a nice image. I liked that too.

For me Rey’s and Kylo’s interactions were the best thing. That was something from TFA that needed and still needs to be explored. I think their relationship (enemity, affinity or whatever) is the thread that will tie up this trilogy together.

 

I don't feel the need to watch it again. Many many things are just spoiling the ST with big question marks in a global way.

Just things thrown around : Kylo Ren killed his dad because Luke tried to kill him in his sleep ? It just makes no sense. We don"t have a clue why Ben Solo is so angry about Leia and Han ...

Luke showing off when 390 people are died because he was lazy and grumpy ?

Where was Snoke during the OT ...

It's even ruining the point of the OT. Why would we hear the story of Luke Skywalker ?

It's a boy living under a tyrannic empire when he came to the story and he died under a tyrannic empire when he left the story.
The point that he helped defeat the first one is completely useless because he's the cause of the other one.

It just breaks everything.

I don't really understand Disney's choice to bring back the old crew to depict them as complete letdowns unless they wanted us to go to the theater.

I'm feeling crooked as a global viewer.

And the movie is so badly executed. The jokes were terrbile it's just not my kind of humour. It's no use to try, I'm old enough to know myself

Maybe I'm too old though. I just became as grumpy and salty as Master Luke.

I just can't figure out that Disney had clearly no idea where they were going when they started ep VII. It's mindboggling.

 

Stepping outside the current matter at hand, that's not how probability works, my friend. Just because there are 2 options doesn't mean that each option is equally likely. For example, I'm either going to win the Powerball this weekend or I am not going to win the Powerball this weekend. Those are the only 2 options, therefore according to your logic, there is a 50-50 chance I win the Powerball. As much as I wish that were the case, I don't think my chances are quite so high.

Isn't that kinda what anyone is saying when they state something they believe? If you believe XYZ then it logically follows that you believe everyone who doesn't believe XYZ is wrong.

I have stated time and again that I am making a prediction based on both what is known and what is theorized. So yeah, ok.... my prediction can be considered (to use your words) a speculation based on assumptions. I have never claimed it to be otherwise.

Furthermore, I have indeed brought evidence to support the reasoning behind my prediction. Just because you don't like the evidence doesn't mean you get to say I haven't brought any.

 

Your only evidence for this matter is Bob not mention Rian's trilogy and it isn't a strong one. If there was any hint of no Rian's Trilogy why would Rian keep on saying that he has the green light? Wouldn't he just stay quite or try to beat around the bush when people ask him? Also why would the press release of his current movie mention him working on the SW trilogy after his current project? Wouldn't their media team not say anything about it? You may dislike TLJ and Rian (and that's okay) but it's hard to fire a dude that was easy to work with, made them stupid amounts of money (1.3 billion is very good for SW, I don't care how you try down play it) along with the top selling bluray of 2018 so far. I'm sorry Bob statement isn't strong enough to make that conclusion. Had it been at a SW event, then you may have a strong case and I quote Sherlock Holmes

"Never theorize before you have data. Invariably, you end up twisting facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

 

It was a somewhat unexpected decision to have the villain Kylo being the product of the original three’s bad choices... but it works I think. It adds an unexpected depth to the story. A depth that, if I’m honest, I didn’t think it was going to be there before I saw the fist ST film. I was very pleasantly surprised after TFA and, in that sense, even more after TLJ.

I always give things that mean something to me a second chance. I am glad I rewatched TLJ a couple of times. It helped me understand some of the (at first sight) oddest choices, such as Luke tossing the saber... when I saw that first I could hear alarm bells in my head saying: “wait a minute, is this wise? Is RJ mocking JJ’s climatic ending?” Now I see it differently. RJ just had to play with that moment. A lot of speculation had built about it and he needed to do something visual that communicated Luke’s state of mind. Tossing the saber was the most effective. I see that now.

I would never see the ST as a diminishment of the OT. Heroes don’t last forever and it’s better to see the original three displaying all their imperfections than not seeing them at all... I’ll be always glad that the ST happened and brought Luke, Han and Leia back, warts and all.

 

Please provide the press release which says that, because I don't remember reading it in the press release. A couple of magazines mentioned it, but that's miles apart from having it mentioned in a press release.

You would do well to read that quote you just gave us and consider how it applies to your own statements.

I made my prediction and I stand by it.

 

https://deadline.com/2018/09/daniel-craig-rian-
johnson-knives-out-james-bond-25-star-wars-the-last-jedi-toronto-film-festival-auction-1202456539/

Variety also mentions it as well which both places has been legitimate in the past about SW news. They hold more weight than your assumptions.

Why would the article say that he's going to work on his SW trolilogy after this film if that wasn't the case? Why would two major publishers state that? Also read RJ's Twitter page. He can confirm it and there's link to it in one of the other forums (you're a smart man, you can find it). If there was any hint of his trilogy being canceled, why would rian continue to confirm it if it wasn't true? Wouldn't he just ignore or it try to beat around the bush?

I'm basing my information on articles and numbers of TLJ. You're doing exactly what that quote said. You're taking your feelings as fact when the media and numbers don't align. I posted facts, you just choose to brush it off without providing anything to counter my point. Your prediction isn't fact. You may think it is but the rest of the world don't. Even the creators of this website don't even support your views, they always been in the middle. Please show me a legitimate source that supports your view? Why would a company fire a director that made them crap load money??? I backed up my statement and I stand my post until you can show me facts that proves me wrong. Why don't you man up and ask the man himself?

I need something more real than bias feelings, until you can provided factual evidence (which i asked many times and you still haven't), I'm done with this topic. Wait until Celebration next year to see if you're right or not? Until then everything is just hot air.

 

You obviously didn't read what I wrote. There is nothing in the studio's official statement that mentions Star Wars. That's just something that the writer of the article put in there.

Well, when I am proven right, you can reassess that statement.

Is there a reason you've decided to lob sarcastic personal attacks at me?

With all due respect, I don't think you understand the concept of what a prediction is. A prediction, by its definition, a statement about what will happen or might happen in the future (Mirriam-Webster). By its definition, it cannot be a "fact". It can, after a period of time, be proven right or proven wrong.

What in the heck are you even talking about here? Who is "the man" and what, precisely, am I supposed to ask him?

Since you're done with the topic, I will conclude this discussion with the final word:

I have seen the writing on the wall. I know how the industry works. I know how people at Disney feel about the situation. Hear me now and believe me later: There will not be a SW trilogy helmed by Rian Johnson. Sure, he may get a throwaway "Produced By" credit somewhere along the line, but he will not be writing/directing 3 future Star Wars movies.

Why my simple prediction makes you so mad remains a complete mystery....

 

I just wanted to add something: Rian Johnson is only responsible (and always was) for the first movie of this so called "Rian Johnson's trilogy". The other movies will (most likely) be directed and written by other people. Rian will have the function of an Executive Producer. Yes, he's about to write a treatment for the overall story, but it's up to the directors and actual screen writers of the remaining two episodes of that trilogy to stick with Rian's treatment.

 

I'm curious. What is it you actually don't like about that scene? I'm guessing you're taking issue with the idea of somebody doing a taste test? Personally I think it's an important bit of exposition which lets us know this is not another Hoth. Without it we could be left assuming it's snow. It shows Rian Johnson thought about it.

That aside, a qualified geophysicist and sci-fi science consultant has Tweeted about how that is actually quite plausible.

I doubt it's going to make you love the film now, but perhaps it could be one less thing to hate.

 

It's badly executed it was a light in the sky to say hey guys : This has nothing to do with Hoth !!! This is salt !

...

Come on.

 

I don't agree that it even comes close to being executed badly. It certainly didn't jump out at at me and take me out of the film or affect my enjoyment of it. It's certainly not the clunkiest, worst bit of expositional dialogue I've ever seen in a movie, and feels fairly natural for the moment.

I suppose if you're already hating every moment of the movie up until that point then I guess it might seem a lot worse than it is.

It's a criticism I wasn't even aware of until recently, but I do think it's a really petty thing for people to be bothered about.

I mean, come on...

 

It was actually the first time I had heard this complaint about the “salt” too... I don’t really see why it is that bad... what type of exposition would have been better in this situation? The red in the planet was not only visually beautiful but also had a place in story telling as Luke did not make a red footprint... explaining the physical composition of the planet made it more real and its use less gimmicky IMO.

 

This my first time ever hearing that complaint. Not even the PT got scrutinize this bad (RLM did it pretty well but not to this extent). I have never seen so many petty complaints about a movie before. Disliking TLJ because you didn't like how they treated Luke is one thing, but complaining about a 2 second scene about a planet is beyond petty. I hated The Twilight Series with passion, but you don't see me analyze those movie frame by frame to find faults.

 

Gee, and I thought this thread was for those who disliked this movie. By the way, "The Last Jedi" is not the first movie ever or in this franchise that has received so many complaints.

 

Tell that to the haters, the PT in their eyes is perfect compare to some of the stuff people are complaining about. I think TLJ is mediocre so I'm allowed to he in this thread. My real distaste of the ST is actually from TFA not TLJ. I guess they forgot how people reacted to Episode 1. It's not much difference except they were pretty much limited on venting to their social circles.

 

If you hated the entire Twilight series, then that's a bad analogy. I daresay that all of us in here who disliked/hated TLJ love other parts of the Star Wars saga. That's why we are in here and that is why we will continue to discuss even the smallest details contained within the movies.

 

I agree. The complaining of haters with this Twilight (or any other franchise comparison) rationale doesn't make any sense to me. It's really very simple. We're 7-8 movies in and like or love most of it. This series was supposed to be closer to the OT, which most SW fans love. Then we get TLJ which is debatably more divisive than any other film in the franchise. I think there's a deep sense of disappointment by all fans, because I think we all believed this trilogy was going to unite us all like the pre PT days. Instead, we got the opposite. From there, both sides blames the other.

I mostly agree with those who love this movie that the whole salt thing isn't that big of a deal. That said, I did chuckle and roll my eyes upon first viewing that scene as it does come off as a bit corny or contrived, like an afterthought. Personally, I think it would have made more sense and felt more natural had someone asked how the salt would effect their equipment (rust, absorbing moisture ect...). It wouldn't have been quite as on the nose. To each their own though.

Personally, I just wish fans would do less name calling, as in calling someone or a group petty, and more shrugging and allowing others to feel as they do without the need to demean their opinion.

 

I agree with this 100%. It wasn't that big of a deal, but it was a bit contrived. It was a scene in a movie where I feel the actor may as well have just looked right into the camera and given the audience a wink and a nod since it was so obvious that that is what was going on.

(I also feel the same way when Maz Kanata said in E7 "that's a story for another time!" regarding Anakin's/Luke's Lightsaber )