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Thread for those who loved the movie

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by The Last Deadeye, Dec 15, 2017.

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  1. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    But there was a debate, and nobody knew for sure. I remember someone had a theory that Jyn Erso was Rey's mom. Again these are crazy theories, but it sort of proves the point that there was no consensus to the fates of the R1 characters. Plus, we are conditioned to believe in Sequels so many just assumed they wouldn't kill every main character for that reason too.
     
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  2. Unseen

    Unseen Rebel Official

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    I recently watched TLJ for the second time to see if it played differently if Luke somehow knew Rey and was trying to save her by pushing her away. I admit, it made that part of the movie more tolerable.


    However, the B plot might even be worse on repeat viewings. I’m curious if any of these issues were addressed in the novel, comic, etc-


    Why doesn’t the FO just light speed ahead of the Resistance and accomplish what they have been trying to do for a long time- wipe out the Resistance? Why is Hux so patient when he could get it over with and please his boss?


    Why doesn’t the Resistance just split up? Go in different directions so only 1 ship can really be tracked?


    Why not jump to friendly territory, and have “friends” waiting to help?


    If Poe can get a message to Maz, why can’t he get a message to friends of the resistance?


    If you accept that he can’t because of some reasons, Why can’t Maz pass the word on for help once she is done with her problem?


    How does Poe not know Holdo, if the Resistance is small? (Why didn’t they just make her a Republic holdover? - that would have explained the conflict between the two as well. “You didn’t believe us, now you want to take over?”- at least that would have made sense)


    Why didn’t Holdo just tell everyone here plan? The rebels were never secretive with each other before.


    Why is Holdo dressed for prom?


    Where is the rest of the resistance, like JJ’s friend?


    Why does Poe send Finn and Rose on such an important mission? Why not go himself or send more experienced people? He obviously had other friends, and he wasn’t helping there.


    If Finn and Rose can get away, why doesn’t everyone pack into small ships and split up?


    Why do Finn and Rose just give up on finding the code breaker? Once the stutter guy gets them out, why just shrug and say “this guy says he can do it, he seems nice”?


    When did the stutter guy make a deal with the FO?


    Why didn’t everyone climb into small ships, and Holdo could “light speed” into the main ship at the beginning? Then, they could all jump away without being tracked?


    If jumping into light speed through a ship can destroy it, why didn’t the rebels do it to the deathstar? Or the deathstar 2.0 in TFA? Fewer people would have died.


    Why did the FO not destroy Holdo’s ship once she was in range?


    Why wasn’t Kylo helping? When he wasn’t skyping with Rey, what was he doing? Its odd he was so involved in tracking the Resistance up to that point. I suppose you could say he figured it was a matter of time, but why would impatient Kylo not force Hux to jump ahead of them and get it over with?


    Kylo literally knows Rey is coming, since he is prepared to greet her. Why did he let the Falcon get away?


    I assume Chewie and R2 noticed the situation that Resistance was in when they “dropped Rey off (lol)”, why didn’t they go call for help?


    Why did an FO ship with all that sophisticated tracking, etc- not notice the Falcon and/or track it when it left?



    I’m honestly curious if any of these were addressed because that is a lot for HALF a movie. Every movie has stuff, but this is HALF the movie.
     
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  3. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Most of them are addressed or are just absurdist nitpicks in the vain that could be made for any sci-fi fantasy film.
    You either accept it or you don't.

    giphy (17).gif
     
    #843 RoyleRancor, Sep 22, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
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  4. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    @RoyleRancor addressed most of these nitpicks. Most of these can be answered by simply watching the film.

    Hux tells them to ignore the ship and it was too late by the time he realized what she was doing.

    FIRST ORDER OFFICER: Sir, the Resistance cruiser's preparing to jump to lightspeed.
    ARMITAGE HUX: It's empty. They're just trying to pull our attention away. Pathetic. Keep your fire on the transports.

    There is a minority out there who don't like this film who are surprisingly don't know much about The Last Jedi. It seems to me based on conversations with some people who don't like the film it's mostly about Luke. If you were more invested in Luke and really didn't care that much for the new characters you're gonna hate TLJ. TLJ is about Luke, but it's not about Luke being superhero. Luke is the hero in the end, but not in the way some wanted.
     
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  5. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    Hot take - The Last Jedi isn't interested in how the Jedi Order was organized or whether it failed or not. The Order is just a scapegoat used by Luke to rationalize his failure at the moment he turned his lightsaber over Ben and his exile onto Ahch-To. Also - if you replace "Jedi" with "me" in Luke's dialogue you'll get what he truly meant.
     
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  6. Adam812

    Adam812 Rebel General

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    By the end of the film, Jake Skywalker becomes Luke again.
     
  7. Angelman

    Angelman Servant of the Whills -- Slave to the Muses
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    A large portion of TLJ haters seem to confuse subjective disappointment in the movie's artistic direction (a fair enough point) with proof of the film being objectively bad.
     
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  8. LarsSkywalker

    LarsSkywalker Rebel Official

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    Why doesn’t the FO just light speed ahead of the Resistance and accomplish what they have been trying to do for a long time- wipe out the Resistance? Why is Hux so patient when he could get it over with and please his boss?

    They would over jump them by a significant amount. That's why lightspeed is only for long distances, not short ones.

    Why doesn’t the Resistance just split up? Go in different directions so only 1 ship can really be tracked?
    The FO has more than 4 ships. It's their whole fleet. The Resistance would still be overwhelmed if their 4 ships split up.

    Why not jump to friendly territory, and have “friends” waiting to help?
    That's just it. There are friends. The destroyed Republic fleet was it. All other Resistance resources, such as Holdo herself, were called in to help Leia remove remove their resources from their main base on D'Qar.


    If Poe can get a message to Maz, why can’t he get a message to friends of the resistance?
    They have to shake the FO first. If I call you up and say the mob are on my tail, can I stay at your house. Are you going to let me come over now and let the mob destroy your house to get to me. Or let me dodge the mob first and then come hide at your place.


    If you accept that he can’t because of some reasons, Why can’t Maz pass the word on for help once she is done with her problem?

    To who? While Maz herself is good, everyone she deals with are neutral and don't want to be FO's target. Especially after just killing the capital planet.


    How does Poe not know Holdo, if the Resistance is small? (Why didn’t they just make her a Republic holdover? - that would have explained the conflict between the two as well. “You didn’t believe us, now you want to take over?”- at least that would have made sense).
    Like I said above, all Resistance resources were pulled together to help with D'Qars evacuation.


    Why didn’t Holdo just tell everyone here plan? The rebels were never secretive with each other before.

    The Rebels weren't under a chase siege. Holdo also didn't know how the FO could follow them through lightspeed. For all she knew, there was a traitor on board feeding them this information. This is why Poe should have let Finn and Rose tell Holdo about the hyperspace tracker.

    Why is Holdo dressed for prom?
    Why was Mon Mothma in RotJ and Rogue One?


    Where is the rest of the resistance, like JJ’s friend? Read the Poe comics. Leia sent the 4 other best pilots besides Poe, to go off and try to gain allies.


    Why does Poe send Finn and Rose on such an important mission? Why not go himself or send more experienced people? He obviously had other friends, and he wasn’t helping there.
    He hadn't to be the one to stay and have the ships go right into lightspeed as soon as thenplan worked. Finn and Rose couldn't have done it. Plus, unlike them, Poe already got into a small tassel with Holdo. And she was most likely keeping tabs on him.

    If Finn and Rose can get away, why doesn’t everyone pack into small ships and split up?
    Not enough small ships like Rose's which has a small camouflage aspect.

    Why do Finn and Rose just give up on finding the code breaker? Once the stutter guy gets them out, why just shrug and say “this guy says he can do it, he seems nice”?
    Did you forget the part where the police blow up Rose's ship with cops chasing them, so they have to choice to escape the planet except go with DJ.

    When did the stutter guy make a deal with the FO?
    After they got caught. When Finn is being lead to execution, you see that he, Rose and DJ have been separate from each other (between getting caught and being sent to execution)

    Why didn’t everyone climb into small ships, and Holdo could “light speed” into the main ship at the beginning? Then, they could all jump away without being tracked?
    They weren't near the salt planet yet. Only a couple small ships like Rose's could go light speed. The rest of the small escape pods are barely able of normal speed. The Resistance still needed a location close to escape to.

    If jumping into light speed through a ship can destroy it, why didn’t the rebels do it to the deathstar? Or the deathstar 2.0 in TFA? Fewer people would have died.
    This sounds bad. But in real life, why didn't any terrorists fly into a big large occupied building before 9/11?i don't know.

    Why did the FO not destroy Holdo’s ship once she was in range? They were too busy blowing up the escape pods at that point because they know they were occupied.


    Why wasn’t Kylo helping? When he wasn’t skyping with Rey, what was he doing? Its odd he was so involved in tracking the Resistance up to that point. I suppose you could say he figured it was a matter of time, but why would impatient Kylo not force Hux to jump ahead of them and get it over with?see above.


    Kylo literally knows Rey is coming, since he is prepared to greet her. Why did he let the Falcon get away?
    It came and immediately jumped into lightspeed before they were able to track it.

    I assume Chewie and R2 noticed the situation that Resistance was in when they “dropped Rey off (lol)”, why didn’t they go call for help? Help how? What could they do at that point?


    Why did an FO ship with all that sophisticated tracking, etc- not notice the Falcon and/or track it when it left?
    Too quick. It came, dropped off Rey and hightailed it.
     
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  9. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    Yeah, TLJ takes risks that some people just won't like. That's perfectly understandable. I suspect in time some people will revisit this film in the future after the disappointment fades. Heck, the prequels were pretty bad, but I can enjoy them now.
     
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  10. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    But doesn’t that work both ways for the fans that loved the direction they took Luke as they were more apt to like the film? In saying that, I think that goes for ANY film as people like and dislike it because of their level of enjoyment, not the ‘artistic direction.”

    For example, there are 2 nominated Oscar films from the 90’s called Dancing with Wolves and The English Patient. I did not like either film as I found them completely overlong and boring. But I’m sure they well directed movies, but that doesn’t matter to me cause I didn’t like them.

    It’s no different then getting a Filet Mignon at a 5 Star Steakhouse and maybe I just don’t like Filet Mignon. But you would say, “That is renowned chef in there who took the time to prepare that perfect Filet.” That’s fine, but I still didn’t like the steak!

    So for everyone that accuses fans of not liking TLJ because of certain character arcs and plot points they didn’t agree, there are just as many fans who like the film cause they DID agree with the direction of character arcs and plot points. And if you didn’t, you probably wouldn’t like it either. :)
     
    #850 Jedi77-83, Oct 7, 2018
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  11. Angelman

    Angelman Servant of the Whills -- Slave to the Muses
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    @Jedi77-83, you’re making my argument for me. Not liking TLJ is an honest reaction, but that doesn’t make it “the worstest film evah!” and such. Many vocal TLJ haters seem to think it does, however, and try to convince themselves and the fan base at large that the move is terribly made because of it. There are certainly great films that I don’t care for (can’t recall any atm because I generally don’t keep in my head things I don’t like) and there are similarly pretty bad films that I love.
     
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  12. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I honestly ignore the 'worst film ever' crowd or the 'it's a masterpiece' crowd too, as that is a just a product of social media (they are both loud but both a small extreme just like everything in society). Most people who love and hate TLJ, love and hate 3 particular parts: Luke's arc, Snoke's death, and Rey Nobody.

    Most SW fans who seem to like/love TLJ likes Luke's arc and has no problem with Snoke dying and Rey Nobody. Most fans who seem to dislike/hate TLJ don't like Luke's arc, don't like Snoke dying and don't like that Rey is not related to a Skywalker/Solo.

    Do you think that is a coincidence that everyone's opinion of the movie line up with those plot points?
     
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  13. Angelman

    Angelman Servant of the Whills -- Slave to the Muses
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    Most people? Hm... could be. Personally, I think TLJ really IS a masterpiece, but not because of Snoke's death or Rey Nobody, or even Luke's arc, although I must admit it is pretty much #DefinitelyMyLuke. I think it is a masterpiece for its high drama, emotional dept, powerful imagery, great character development, and well-crafted story (even though I had to watch it a couple of times to get it all - it's a very complex piece below the surface). And I happen to also like it. Again, there's nothing wrong with not like Luke's arc, for instance - that's fair enough - but that doesn't make TLJ an objectively bad movie.

    ...and now there'll be a 6 page response by haters to this discusion trying to prove how Snoke's death makes the film a terrible piece of cinema, or whatever. Just wait and see :) (I'm gonna go obsessing over something else for a while)
     
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  14. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I get that you like the things you described about the movie, but Luke's arc is a HUGE reason fans love and hate it. The bottom line that you put in #DefinetlyMyLuke confirms my initial point.

    The bottom line is you can't find anyone who hates Snoke's Death, hates Rey Nobody, and hates Luke's arc, but loves the film. And you can't find anyone who loves Snoke dying, loves Rey nobody, and loves Luke's arc, and hates the film. One usually = the other.
     
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  15. Angelman

    Angelman Servant of the Whills -- Slave to the Muses
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    No, but my remark was not about hating or loving the film, it was that hating or loving it a film is subjective while quality is more objective. But we're going in circles so let's move on.
     
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  16. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    The real question is: why doesn’t the FO simply call for reinforcements, surround those handful of ships and annihilate them? Answer: the FO is helmed by a bunch of comically incapable buffoons that can build an army, but not effectively use it. Viewed that way, the idea of a bus load of refugees somehow toppling them isn’t so farfetched anymore :)
    It’s stated that any ship can track them, they just happen to only be doing it from the lead ship . . . for some reason.
    It’s stated that their allies are in the outer rim. Their communications aren’t powerful enough to reach them there . . . for some reason. That’s why they’re heading to Crait.
    See previous.
    Because, despite saying in the previous movie that the fight against the First Order is the only one that matters, solving union disputes is an all-encompassing endeavor that requires every bit of her focus and attention . . . for some reason.
    Yeah, he didn’t even know what she looked like . . . a Vice Admiral in a rinky-dink militia. “Not what I expected.” Would you say she subverted your expectations then, Poe? :)
    Because people make mistakes. The actions she took in order to prevent a particular outcome (Poe doing something stupid), caused that very thing to happen. It was a failure in judgement - a reoccurring theme in the story.
    The character was originally supposed to be presented as more quirky and flakey. Giving another reason for Poe to doubt her competency. Her wardrobe served to reflect that. RJ tried that approach with Laura Dern at first, but tossed it out after conceding the characterization didn’t work. *OR*, there's no real dress code in this motley mishmash volunteer army. Wear what you like.
    It’s in a comic. It was some rather awkward dialogue to have Holdo say “We're the very last of the Resistance” though. Dramatic much?
    Poe’s a pilot, what the hell does he know about disabling trackers? It was their plan. They knew it best. Of course they were the ones that should go.
    . . . . . . . . . . . Fuel? <shoulder shrug>
    They should go back into the casino and look for this guy again, now with ALL the security trying to capture them? Doesn’t seem very smart. But, I guess, neither are they, so . . .
    Right after they got caught by BB-H8. I guess they were split up then . . . brought back together? <shoulder shrug>
    “I like where your head is at, but no. They'd only start tracking us from another Destroyer.”
    I’m gonna go out on a limb and assume proximity plays a part here. Logically, the farther away you are, the more difficult hitting your target would be. Nav computers would be designed to ensure you DON’T run into things, so you’d have to plot your coordinates manually (you’d think).

    In ANH, no large ship was getting anywhere near DS1, that was the point of the small fighters. In ROTJ, the Imperial fleet could have wiped them out whenever they wanted, but Palpatine wanted DS2 to pull the trigger (cuz symbolism and revenge and whatever). “We only need to keep them from escaping.” I imagine they would have disabled or destroyed ANY ship that was priming to jump away.

    Du-dun-du-dun, HEAD CANON TO THE RESCUE!!!
    You’d think they’d have enough bodies and guns to do both, but again, these guys are morons. So walking and chewing gum at the same time is beyond them. They can only focus on one thing at a time - the transports . . . it will be their undoing – mua-ha-ha-ha.
    I don’t remember Kylo being involved in tracking anybody. The story pretends as if there was no other way out of the situation, so what else was he supposed to do but sit around and wait?
    What would he want with the Falcon? Say “hi” to Chewy? Nab those super terrific dice?
    Who they gonna call? Great . . . now I got that Ray Parker Jr. song in my head. Thanks a pant load for that :)
    Who says they didn’t? Again, what would they want with the Falcon? It’s a hunk-a-junk with one Wookie and a bunch of puppet bird things on-board. Who gives a s***t?
     
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  17. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    The nitpicking about The Last Jedi is kind of comical. One of my favorite head scratching moments in Star Wars is the Han Solo rescue "plan" in Return of the Jedi. The rescue works and our hero prevail, but I've never seen a logical explanation of the plan. If you look at it from that perspective it doesn't make sense, but it doesn't really matter.
     
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  18. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Other than Luke miraculously predicting how everyone is going to react in each given situation (which maybe can be attributed to Lando being an unbelievably capable inside man), I’ve never had a problem with the logic of the plan. He tried negotiation first, then moved to infiltration, persuasion, ultimatum, and then . . . hacking fools to pieces and blowing everyone up. It’s not how he wanted it to go down, but he tapped out all the peaceful solutions before getting there. Tracks fine to me :)
     
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  19. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    It still doesn't make sense. They sent all those people their to fail first? To what end? They planned this a year in advance. Anyway, not on topic, but I've never seen a logical explanation of the plan. Luke just shows up and kicks butt.
     
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  20. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    Interesting. It's not that I don't see some ridiculous nitpicking of TLJ (it certainly exists) but it doesn't seem disproportionate to nitpicks of other movies IMO. If, from a certain point of view, you feel like there is more nitpicking with TLJ, might it not be due to an observation you've made here: That TLJ took more risks? Take more risks deviate from expectations and perhaps invite more scrutiny, no?
     
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