Will Ben Solo be Redeemed?

I guess we can count on that to happen. And I'll agree, it will help a lot, it surely will leave Ren devasted, 'cause the saddest thing about betrayal is that it never comes from your enemies... xD

 

I'm not a shipper of Reylo... I'm just seeing what's happening on screen. Reylo and Kylo's redemption was heavily hinted. Personally I would also love an evil Kylo Ren who dies as the villain.

 

I think that's very much open to interpretation. My take on Kylo's struggle was to lure Han in. I had no doubt he was going to kill him. I never got the impression that Kylo almost didn't kill Han. Not by a longshot. I guess that could be a watershed moment that splits fans on Kylo, whether one believed it was a ruse by Kylo (his action in TLJ reinforces that imo, trickery to kill Snoke), or if he really did struggle.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 22, 2018, Original Post Date: Sep 22, 2018 ---

I think it's more likely it would happen from the KoR. Kylo doesn't inspire me as a leader. He's hot tempered and hasn't demonstrated a very keen intelligence. He's not stupid, but he's no criminal mastermind either. He seems a little simple to me, intellectually. His personality is complex, his intelligence, not so much. I could see a KoR, now seeing the throne available, turning on Kylo, maybe with Hux's support.

 

I also knew Han was dead at the second he reached out for Kylo by calling his name. But it was still intense. You know why? Because of the great use of suspense. JJ used a technique by Hitchcock (the master of suspense). We all knew what would come and still we hoped it didn't go that way. Great storytelling by Kasdan and JJ. And he struggled alot. Adam Driver's acting shows that (and it's confirmed by the novel).

I think Kylo won't care about the First Order (hence Hux will turn on him) and Darth Vader (hence the KOR will turn on him), he only wants to find Rey. Thus Hux and the KOR will overthrow him.

 

Oddly enough, I've never read the novelization of any SW movie. I've owned the books of the OT, even tried reading them, but to me its intended format is film. I read LOTR because it came out as a book series first. SW I simply feel since it comes out in movie form first, that's its intended medium to reach its audience. It's a little silly for sure, as books always deliver more info, but for me it's simply a SW thing. So basically, the acting has to deliver what the book says, or else the movie trumps the book imo.

I wasn't convinced by Drivers acting that he was truly torn to kill his father. He struck me as a man on a mission to be evil (which in itself I found a little strange and still do) and willing to use whatever means to achieve his goal. I felt it was a ruse, or as Ackbar would say lol... we know what Ackbar would say haha. I don't even know what JJ or Driver could have done differently to show more turmoil. I guess it's tricky, if you get the impression that Kylo is faking (ergo, acting) torn, while Adam is truly acting torn, it's pretty easy to feel confused and misinterpret that scene. Up until that point I really had no reason to believe Kylo would repent. In TFA there was little to no reason to believe Kylo had any good in him other than him being a Solo/Skywalker and that final scene. I guess it just didn't work for me and his similar ploy with Snoke has cemented that idea in my mind. He's a backstabbing, manipulating POS lol. He doesn't even do it in a cool way like Sidious.

If I had to compare Kylo to a villain, I'd use Wormtongue from LOTR. Which I think can be interesting had Wormtongue killed Saruman, it would have been a different, if possibly less threatening story from that side of the war. I kind of feel that's where the ST is right now. No Sauron and Saruman just got killed by Wormtongue. The interesting thing, is that because the threat is no longer as dire as it was, quite possibly the Elves and Humans don't unite to fight the darkness. That's kind of how I see the story of the ST right now. The good guys are squabbling because there's the lack of a big enough threat for them to unite. Wormtongue just isn't impressive enough to get them to put their differences aside.

 

Really? That's new for me. But each to their own.

If Kylo Ren had wanted to Kill Han, he would have done it immediately. Just use a force push or order the Stormtroopers to open fire. But no, he was Ben Solo at this moment. He knew what to do, but he was scared about it. JJ said in the commentary that Kylo Ren or Ben Solo actually thought he could go with his father, but then the light of the sun vanished and with this the light in Ben Solo. => Poe: "As long as there is light (referring to the sun), there is hope."

This scene was amazingly well written.

I think this is where you are wrong. The Resistance only contains of about 14 members. So, the FO is a huge threat for them.

 

See, I don't consider the "good guys" merely the Resistance. I see the whole of the New Republic as the "good guys", but most don't have the will to act for what's right. When faced with Snoke and SKB, this might have been because of fear of their wrath, a feeling of hopelessness, perhaps also a little pampered (let someone else handle it). Now, with Snoke and SKB gone, I would assume the people would consider the FO much less of a threat with those 2 huge losses. To the people of the New Republic, the threat has largely been dealt with. So even by the end of TLJ, there was little reason for people to unite behind Leia and squash evil once and for all. I really doubt people of the SW universe see these conflicts the way we do, because they don't have an inside look of the personal issues. All they know is that there's a war and it might get closer to them. Until it's on their doorstep, most people would rather just live their every day life. That's my take anyways.

 

The New Republic was pretty much destroyed and the remaining planets don't want to help anymore. It's pretty much a dead end for the "good guys".

 

This is why some form of time jump is important in my eyes. By jumping forward In time some it allows more systems in the galaxy to see the threat that the FO is and allow the Resistance to be build some.

 

I re-watched Avatar: The Last Airbender recently and I feel like Prince Zuko’s story arc is similar to Kylo Ren’s.
Zuko’s arc begins as a crazed lord out to destroy the avatar (which is a balancer of peace, similar to a jedi) and by season 3, he learns to not only accept the avatar but join forces with him for the greater good of the world.

 

please, what does "POS" mean, i don't get it, thank you

 

piece of .... another word for feces

 

I have a really cool (well In my eyes anyway) and abstract image of how I’d be happy for episode 9 to end.

Imagine it ended with both Rey and Kylo having to (somewhat) sacrifice themselves and preserve their bodies/consciousness in a state of forever stasis, in the temple on Ach-To with the prime Jedi mosaic and both Rey and Kylo forming both sides of the prime Jedi forming perfect balance in the force, both light and dark, ying and yang.

While this is happening the force ghosts of Luke, Yoda, obi wan, anakin, mace windu (can’t think of who else) look on as balance has finally been achieved.

 

thankyou @Sparafucile

 

Actually that's the point of redemption and forgiveness. That doesn't rule out consequences and naturally we scream 'kill him' but but forgiveness and redemption should be stronger than revenge and punishment.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
There is another ... Skywalker

 

And just to be clear, I don't say that in any way that is derogatory to Adam Driver or his acting. My take is that this perception of Kylo is at least partially intended by at least JJ. With RJ we get more mixed signals of what he wants us to think of him, but I think POS still fits by the end .

 

I'm afraid don't get what you want to mean do you think
1. Kylo Ren (the character) was actually torn, but Adam Driver (the actor) failed delivering that - so the scene seems fake to you?
or
2. Kylo Ren (the character) was faking his turmoil, in order to get his father in a trap, and Adam Driver (the actor) succeeded in delivering the scene?

 

I think Adam portrayed Kylo’s interior torment exquisitely. His acting was very restrained in that scene yet very powerful. I think he deliberately didn’t want to give clear indications of his intentions such as: “now I will kill dad, now I won’t kill him, now I will kill him”, but rather concentrated in his feeling. “i’m torn apart, I love my dad, and I need him, but he’s holding me back. I don’t need him. I need to be strong”.

Kylo talked to Han in the way a person who doesnt know himself or his true feelings talks. In that scene I feel Kylo has importar syndrome.

Don’t forget: “I feel it again. The pull to the light.” Crucial scene.

Interrogation: “you’re afraid... that you will never be as strong as earth Vader”. His doubts about not measuring up to the big bad guy make us think that Kylo has good in him, somewhere.

Also snoke pointing out that killing Han Solo will be a tough task somehow gives away how unprepared kylo truly is to confront his own heart.

 

I'd say more of 2, unless that wasn't the intent. It gets complicated and convoluted. If Adam Driver was supposed to be torn, then for me it kind of got lost and I read it differently. Whether that be Adam's fault or mine could be debatable. If he was supposed to be faking he was torn to draw his father into the trap, then he sold it for me. In that scenario others may have lost track. So yeah, more of 2, but it's definitely debatable.

It all comes down to interpretation. In one scenario, yes, Adam played it exquisitely. In the other, Kylo did (and by extension Adam). His fear of not being Vader doesn't necessarily mean hesitation to kill his father. As for Snoke pointing out the difficulty of that task, that could be interpreted that Kylo could mislead Snoke even before TLJ.

As for the pull of the light, I personally think it's more powerful that he consciously denies it. That's a powerful message, he wants to be evil, thus he wants to kill Han, thus there was no real struggle. Mind over heart. Will over feelings. Dark over light.