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A few things that left me wondering... huh?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Crusifix, Dec 19, 2017.

  1. Crusifix

    Crusifix Rebel Official

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    1. It was apparent that everything the Resistance set out to do in TLJ failed. Running away.. Canto Bight mission... Crate suicide run at the battering cannon... etc, etc. That is Until Luke showed up and saved the day, which I appreciate more now after multiple viewings. Had he not delayed the FO, then all would have been lost.
    2. Leia was useless. I loved her character, don't get me wrong. She was portrayed amazingly. However, other than her Superwoman flight, she showed no other powers in the force. The largest hangup I have is during the retreat when they came to the collapsed exit portal in the mine. Poe was devastated... They all were devastated! There was nowhere to go, and no way to turn back and face the full force of the FO coming right at them... But wait...They have Leia..Right?? Nope, she just stands there like she has no abilities. I am sure that if she can survive space then surely she can move a couple dozen boulders.. Right? Nope, nothing. If it hadn't been for Rey, then all would have been lost. I don't get it. Had I been the director I would have had Leia start moving the boulders, but with the FO getting closer, to the point that she wasn't going to be able to move them all in time. Then have her sense Rey outside doing the same. She could have then looked over and Poe and had this dialog.
    Poe : The First Order is right on top of us. We can't make it!
    Leia : "Don't give up yet! We have help outside"...
    Poe : "Luke...?"
    Leia : "Not this time. Another"
    Immediately after saying this, the last stone moves out of the way...
    Leia : "Rey".
     
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  2. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Maybe Leia can't use the force at any time. She can only use it in emergency situations.
     
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  3. DigitalMaster37

    DigitalMaster37 Clone Commander

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    The thing about Leia is that though she has the bloodline, she is not nearly as force proficient as Luke. I don't have much to back this up as I haven't studied leia to the extent I have others and their abilities. To me it just seems her powers are more dormant and her force abilities enhance her ability to lead. This seems to be pretty consistently throughout her entire storyline. She has literally never been force proficient in the same way as other force users.

    I understand your thoughts, but I think she is powerful in her own "different" way, though completely useless toward the end, but I think she knew. She is not Luke or even nearly his equal in the force.
     
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  4. Aglarion

    Aglarion Force Sensitive

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    To me Leia will always be a jedi, I don't buy this retcon that Leia never had time to train.
     
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  5. DarthNorgaard

    DarthNorgaard Rebelscum

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    I believe that she used the foce as a last resource for surviving like her body reacted to survive as our bodies do when we are about to die and they enter into shock and emergency mode or how we run faster we are in danger. Same thing with leia and the force.
     
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  6. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    It wasn't that she didn't have time. She gave it a shot and decided it just wasn't for her. Simple as that.
     
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  7. Aglarion

    Aglarion Force Sensitive

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    I still think it was a foolish and unnecessary retcon.
     
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  8. Crusifix

    Crusifix Rebel Official

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    But surely she can move rocks... It was made out by Luke to be the most simple and trivial thing previously in the same movie...
     
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  9. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    When was it Retconned? At least in Canon her flying through space is the most power she has shown. Let alone what power it took to stall death in the vacuum of space. She was obviously wounded at that point. Clearly projecting himself off world took a toll on Luke. Kylo and Rey's connection was strengthened by Snoke. Kylo mentioned that it takes great power to project yourself that far. Perhaps her conversation with Luke also drained her.

    But the stories where she learned the Force with Luke are no longer canon.
     
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  10. Aglarion

    Aglarion Force Sensitive

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    By retcon I mean Leia had always been a jedi until they made all the old EU into legends. Sorry I have no idea what you are talking about in the rest of your post.
     
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  11. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    I hear you. I was simply pointing out flying through space was the most power she has shown in canon, now that the old EU is legends. I also assumed that considering she survived the vacuum of space at all suggests that some manifestation of power.

    As for the rest. Luke died from the exertion of his conversation with Leia and confrontation with Kylo. Kylo even mentioned that projecting one's self over great distances like that required immense power. When Leia spoke with Luke I think they held hands that might have required a measure of power on her part.
     
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  12. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    If I had to guess I’d say it’s unlikely. We know she tried training with Luke for a short time at some point, but it just didn’t work out. Could be they never got around to the all-important handstand/rock stacking phase before calling it quits.

    Mary Poppins style zooming through space is probably the pinnacle of her Force abilities and not something she managed deliberately. That's just my take though.
     
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  13. Talon Karrde

    Talon Karrde Rebel Official

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    This is kinda like the questions at the end of TFA.. Luke not saving the day, Chewie more interested in Finn..
    I think they just needed something for Rey to do. Continuity is the strong suit of this movie.
    Also, do bear in mind that nobody knew she was months away from death when they wrote and filmed this. Rian probably figured Colin would appreciate the leeway.. don't forget Colin needed two scenes with Leia to make his version of 9 work.
    At least she did something; doing nothing. in retrospect, would have been far far worse.
     
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  14. BobPontes

    BobPontes Rebelscum

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    Let me just point out that the EU was never canon. Canon Leia was OT Leia, who never showed any Force power other than being able to "listen" to Luke.
     
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  15. Aglarion

    Aglarion Force Sensitive

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    Who cares about the differents level of canon in the past, Leia was as jedi in almost all EU material, I never said it was "canon".
     
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  16. BobPontes

    BobPontes Rebelscum

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    Sorry, I'm just nitpicking on the use of the term 'retcon' :)
    I wasn't a 'retcon' because the whole Leia jedi thing wasn't really canon.
     
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  17. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    There’s a pretty pronounced undercurrent to Claudia Gray’s Bloodline expressing Leia’s complete disdain for being Darth Vader’s daughter. She made no distinction between him and Anakin the way Luke did. The man was pure evil and she resents knowing he’s some way a part of her.

    My take: she sees her strength in the Force as something that came from her father. Because of that she can never truly embrace it. To me, that’s far truer to the character we met in the OT than floating some rocks around or whatever.
     
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  18. Darth Khel

    Darth Khel Clone

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    I remember when I read the Aftermath books, it showed that Leia did get a little bit of training from Luke, but eventually decided to stay with the New Republic. So even though she might not be as proficient as Luke it didn't surprise me that she was able to pull her self back to the door on the bridge. I think it was a last resort kind of thing, since the Resistance had already lost so many leaders, I think she relied on her force powers so that she wouldn't die and be there for those who survived the evacuation. So with that said I don't think she would have used her power's in any other case besides that. Not even on Crait, plus didn't she see that the Binary Tracking Beacon was active before they reached the entrance? She probably knew Rey was coming and since she was with Luke, Leia might have assumed that she received some sort of training or help, and would help the Resistance escape in any way she could, for example; lifting rocks.
     
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  19. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    This is true, mostly meditation so she could actively feel the Force. The new canon also suggests that her Force potential often reflects in her instincts, for example, in Bloodline before the 'napkin bombing' she feels that something is wrong and reacts quicker than anyone else, she can 'read' people, etc.

    I'd say Leia's Force pull stems directly from the danger she was in, like mothers lifting cars to save their children if they are in danger, I think all the barriers she had in relation to the Force dropped away, it was an instinctual thing. While she is not trained, her Force potential is equal to Luke's. In fact as we recently learned, Yoda initially wanted to train her - not Luke.
     
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  20. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    I do like the idea behind Canto Bight, how the rich feed off the backs of the poor but I would have handled this part of the movie differently. I feel that with some changes the Canto bight plotline could have been combined with the other plot developements more effectively, in a shorter time and with more impact on the overall story, he lack of which many people have been critizising, Here's how I would have handled Canto Bight while trying to stay true to Rians message.

    Alternate plot:
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    Finn and Rose need to go to Crait rather than Canto Bight and prepare the Rebel base there for the arrival of the rest of the Resistance. This would be something like activating a shield generator or powering up the defense turrets. On Crait they would get shot down and crashland nearby some recently built mining operation where many slaves are held prisoner, including stable boy. Finn and Rose have to escape the security personell of the mining guild that shot them down.

    Not far away from the mining operation we see a luxerious cruiser similar to Jabbas' sailing barge or the cruiseship we saw on Canto bight. It floats slightly above the surface of the salt lake stirring up red dust into the air foreshadowing the resistance fighters in the final showdown. On board of this ship there's a decadent party with fat and bloated aliens and a band and they are having a lavish dinner. The boss of these rich bastards sits in a whirlpool on the deck of the cruiser and laughes at the slaves in the mining trenches below him dying of thirst. The slaves help Rose and Poe get into the Crait Bunker and power up the Canons. There's a showdown between Finn and the 4 armed guy with the whip rather than a showdown with Phasma.* Stableboy helps Finn by tripping the 4 armed alien. Rose gives him her ring as a thank you** What little is left of the resistance arrives on Crait and hides in the bunker.

    Minutes later the first Order arrives and lands nearby the mining operation. The fat mining boss who sat in the whirlpool walks up to Kylo and says: Get off my property boy, I have exclusive mining rights signed by Supreme leader Snoke himself.*** I don't want any of his dogs strolling arround my mining operation. The alien is huge, far more massive and taller than Kylo. Kylo however only slightly moves his hand. The fat alien's head turns 180 degrees, instantly snapping it's neck. "I am the Supreme leader" Kylo says with a snarl. He tells his men to seize some of the drilling equiment of the mining guild****. The showdown we have seen in the movie takes place. Meanwhile Rey who has arrived with the Millenium Falcon frees the slaves in the mines. While the fight between force projection Luke and Kylo is ongoing the slaves help Rey to move the stones that are blocking the cave exit. While Rey does do most of the work she isn't stong enough yet to lift them all at once*****. We see Luke die on Anch-To. The resistance leaves Crait in the Falcon, the slaves take the ships of the rich people and can be seen leaving Crait in multiple different directions. They have all witnessed what forceprojection Luke did on Crait. A short montage shows how the slaves spread the legend of Luke like a wildfire. The movie ends with broomboy but he seems to be on some kind of farm on a green and tranquil planet indicating he has found a new home. Rest stays unaltered, Credits roll.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------



    *Phasma appears in this movie slaughtering many of the resistance fighters in the trenches like a badass. She doesn't die until IX
    ** explaining how the boy came into posession of the ring
    *** We get a hint at how Snoke financed the first order. On the back of slaves and children
    **** the huge ram-cannon thingy we see break through the door of the Crait bunker
    ***** which would put her strenght a little bit more in relation like we would expect it from her being still a force newbie
     
    #20 BobRoss, Dec 19, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 20, 2017
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