A few things that left me wondering... huh?

I always assumed using the Force was something Leia did subconsciously by instinct rather than by trying to do it. She wasn't trained like Luke was (even if she did receive minimal training), nor did she have the desire to be a Jedi. She chose a different path.

 

Its not a retcon. In legends she may have been however its no longer canon, get over it.

 

Yes Sherlock we know it's not canon... Why should I get over it? I still remember and prefer the other version, if star wars is rebooted again in 20 years I would not simply forget everything that happened in this version.

 

So its not a retcon then is it Watson....

And they haven't rebooted star wars, they just got rid of the chaotic EU of which 90% was absolute garbage.

 

So we are nitpicking on the term "retcon"? It seems like a retcon to me but I'm not really interested in discussing semantics.

retcon: (in a film, television series, or other fictional work) a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events, typically used to facilitate a dramatic plot shift or account for an inconsistency.

 

The de-canonization of Legends "retconned" it, not The Last Jedi. As is, there is no "previously described events" because we didn't know what happens to Leia in this canon. There was nothing to go off of.

But I think we all know what you mean.

 

There's no inconsistency if the material its inconsistent with is no longer considered canon. Thanks for defining the term retcon for me although I think your the one that would benefit in reading it as your the one using the term incorrectly.

 

Agreed, never said it was retconed in TLJ.

Never said it was inconsistent, read the definition again: "a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events"

In previously described events Leia was a jedi knight, now in current canon she started training but gave it up.

 

Can someone please clarify what I saw with the battle scene of the "skimmers" before Luke confronts Kylo on the surface of Crait?

I've seen the movie twice but this part makes absolutely no sense at all to me. Visually its quite the spectacle, but logically it's insane! The rebels make it to the base with the Imperials now on the surface of the planet advancing towards the rebel base. The last of the pilots and the heroes then jump into some rust bucket "skimmers" to kick up dust in front of the advancing column of Imperial heavy assault vehicles? Why? No weapons on those skimmers either. What was the point of kicking up the dust that just creates drag on skimmers making them slow easy targets for the assault to pick off. I was wondering, does the dust create a volatile environment that the machines would seize up, or maybe the battering ram canon would ignite an explosion from the dust mixing within the atmosphere? That entire scene was just insane and ludicrous! What was the point of them doing that? That's the answer I'm looking for. I mean it's as if I saw an entire line of Military class vehicles and tanks headed toward my neighborhood after they pretty much annihilated my entire towns population and I see a bunch of old Huffy bicycles and tell everybody of fighting strength to jump on one and tie pretty streamers to the backs and ride them toward the enemy. What?

I've scoured to see if I could find anything on what the dust might do to turn the tides in the rebels favor, but all I can find is the red is under a layer of salt and what the color stands symbolically. Nothing on what it does or can do to to warrant the skimmers kicking it up. Anyone?

 

It's because they tried to have their cake and eat it too and failed spectacularly at it. One, they tried to pass off a nonsensical and half-assed version of the Battle of Hoth.

Two, they included a scene of a Rebel (Resistance? I don't know.) soldier who just licks the salt on the ground to show why "IT ISN'T A TOTAL COPY, GUYS! DON'T WORRY!". That was the whole purpose of it.

 

Here's the answer.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/V-4X-D_ski_speeder



Cheers,
Jayson

 

I don't see how that's anywhere near sufficient enough to repel assault vehicles bearing this kind of armament.






This goes without mentioning the air superiority that the First Order possesses and the obvious fact that the amount of infantry at the First Order's disposal here makes the Resistance staggeringly outnumbered.

You also don't address the fact that on top of them falling apart, they also leave an obvious trail that makes target acquisition for the First Order incredibly easy.

 

They all knew it was death. They basically just weren't wanting to stand around and do nothing.
Because this was Poe's flaw in the first half - he couldn't just sit still and be scared. He had to jump up, and do something; which was usually a long-shot, or nearly no-shot odds, plan that ended up nearly killing everyone; twice.
Then he gets here and he's faced with the same exact situation, but this time everyone's with him - they all want to do this crack-head idea. To die trying.

And then he redeems himself, under the film's moral themes at least, by calling it off. Which ended up saving lives that would have been lost.
Which reverses his previous disposition to just go all in even if it looked like you were likely going to die, or even if everyone else around you was going to die. Remember, he lead a similar team at the beginning in and won and yet, most of his team died.

It wasn't suppose to appear to be a well thought out, and well equipped plan. That's pretty much every plan Poe had in the film.

1st time: Permission Denied. Success can be a failure. - beginning of the film
2nd time: Permission Taken. Failure. - middle of the film
3rd time: Permission Granted. Failure can be a success. - ending of the film

Cheers,
Jayson

 

I have a hard time suspending my disbelief when it comes to this specific battle if I'm being honest. At least they still had a fleet in the beginning and the means with which to destroy a dangerous component of the First Order's fleet. Was it a foolhardy decision? Yes. However, unlike the battle on Crait, he accomplished his objective. On Crait, he has no possible means with which to combat this kind of combined-arms force on a planet's surface. He has no significant firepower. Just outclassed infantry and totally outdated assault vehicles that are, at best, anti-infantry which doesn't help in this scenario. I get the theme here but the conflict in which it is explored feels contrived and ridiculous even for a character like Poe who often takes risks. Sure, he's cocky but he's also an expert and even he'd realize how ridiculous something like this is.

This seems like another recurring thing in this trilogy. Even the battles seem like vacuous facsimiles of the ones they're meant to mirror.

 

They are not going out in the skimmers to fight off the walkers, that would have been foolhardy and pointless indeed. They try to get close enough to the cannon to fire upon it. Because if they don't they're dead anyway, the cannon will blow the door open. Then Luke comes along.

 

It's a symbol.

Have you ever seen Butch Cassidy and the Sun Dance Kid?


They are beat. Held up in a shoddy fortification.
Horribly outnumbered and outgunned.

And they run out in a 'blaze of glory' and die.

That was their entire plan. "We're screwed. There's no out to this. We're not going to sit down and take it though. Let's go out in combat."

This isn't only in movies, various humans all across history have actually performed this behavior.
It's something some people can relate to, and others cannot.
Some people would do this. Others wouldn't.
It appears to be a sort of fear related response when there is a gap of time which pressed weight on the stress of knowing death is coming, and seems to compel the likely candidate for death to leap to death rather than waiting (WWI saw a LOT of this in the trenches. Men would freak out and just jump up over the wall all on their own and run straight toward the enemy and of course get killed).

They aren't going out there in hopes of actually winning, or accomplishing anything other than to fight on principle of not dying sitting around waiting to be killed.


Which was exactly Poe's problem. He's like Butch and Sundance. And he was just doing what Butch and Sundance types do, and then he had an epiphany hit him on the way because he recalled the guilt he felt after Leia pointed out the losses value of his first success and how that was not worth it.

It doesn't matter if you or I think what he did was worth it in the bombing run; it matters only what the Star Wars parable is and thinks of his bombing run - what does Leia think? She thinks it was a waste and a failure.

Cheers,
Jayson

 

The Resistance was waiting for the FO to setup the canon that would blow open the shield door. They were staying back until the canon was placed, then they were going to try and destroy it. Finn states that it’s heavily armored and you have to hit it straight up the barrel in order to take it out. The Speeders are armed. Finn even says “weapons are hot”. Once they realized the firepower was too much Poe ordered them to pull back but Finn ignored the order and almost sacrificed himself for nothing. If you look at the wide shot, the speeders are far from the Walkers. Then when the FO launched Ties, they were toast. That’s when the Falcon came in and drew them off. They made a point to tell us that the canon was very heavily armored, which ruled out Rey and Chewie blasting the canon.

All of this is in the dialog of the film.

 

Leia's purpose in this movie is:

a. Poe (Poe needs to become a leader, the young brash fighter, needs to learn the wisdom of restraint from the old guys/women. Young wisdom versus senior wisdom
b. Luke (Rey's arrival reminds him of another woman in need which started his journey. "she needs my help".
c. Rey (Leia functions as Rey's 'real mother'. Each of their scenes expresses familial warmth)
d. Kylo (Leia is their to show that Kylo isn't completely "a monster" and to raise the prospect that he can be turned)

There you go. Leia is pretty instrumental for the functioning of the main plot structure.