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After seeing The Last Jedi, JJ Abrams stock up or down?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by stencil, Dec 18, 2017.

?

After watching The Last Jedi, my opinion of JJ Abrams has gone...

  1. Up

    39 vote(s)
    45.3%
  2. Down

    10 vote(s)
    11.6%
  3. Stayed the same

    37 vote(s)
    43.0%
  1. stencil

    stencil Rebel General

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    After seeing The Last Jedi, has your opinion of JJ Abrams and The Force Awakens gone up or down? For me, my opinion of JJ has actually gone up. Watching TLJ has given me a new appreciation for all of the things JJ is good at.

    Don't get me wrong, I really like TLJ a lot. There were lots of interesting ideas and we got a fresh, complex plot. But I also see areas where JJ's strengths possibly exceed RJ's. To me, The Force Awakens was meticulously crafted and just moved from scene to scene so effortlessly. TLJ was a little uneven in quality to me. Some scenes and story lines were not so strong and there were effects sequences that were just not up to snuff.

    I've seen a lot of talk over the past year or two about what a hack director JJ Abrams is and how unoriginal The Force Awakens was. That we were about to see what a master storyteller and true filmmaker like Rian Johson can do with The Last Jedi. What I've seen is two great filmmakers with different strengths making great Star Wars movies. What do you think?
     
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  2. IlhamKamaruddin

    IlhamKamaruddin Rebelscum

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    There are quite a number of obvious differences in the way TFA and TLJ is crafted, made and told. One was considered too safe, while the other was considered too different. While both have been loved by the majority of fans and audiences worldwide, it has its problems respectively. I am happy JJ Abrams is coming back not just because he has more experience ( RJ too but in a different light ), but he also said in one article he has learnt from his mistakes from TFA, and hopefully learned from Rian Johnson too ( both the good and bad lessons ). Episode IX has the chance to get the right amount of balance ( no pun intended ) which all fans have been waiting for. :)
     
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  3. stencil

    stencil Rebel General

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    Yeah I love that JJ has always been willing to admit his mistakes. He admitted to too much lens flare in Star Trek. He admitted the plot was too similar in TFA. His being willing to hear criticisms and learn from his mistakes is probably what has made him into the master craftsman he is.

    I agree that hopefully he can combine the wrinkles provided by Rian with his own understanding of the tone and feel of Star Wars to make an amazing conclusion.
     
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  4. IlhamKamaruddin

    IlhamKamaruddin Rebelscum

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    Exactly! Now, I cannot wait for Episode IX. Oh, also, I am pretty sure we will get a Star Wars Episode IX teaser in December 2018 like how we got for TFA. Plus, we won't be having Star Wars for Christmas next year so it'll cover up instead. :)
     
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  5. Zyloren

    Zyloren Clone Commander

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    Yeah, I can see JJ working on the criticisms he has received. I'm confident that IX will surpass TFA as a piece of cinema. The only thing I'm worried about is how well it will conclude the Skywalker saga. TLJ was an alright film, but I don't consider it a worthy addition to the saga. It's very much RJ's own thing, which I expect he only got away with because he had a lot more leeway with being the middle entry in a trilogy. I believe that JJ and the story group are going to have to be a lot more disciplined when it comes to IX in order to weave everything into cohesive whole.
     
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  6. BaranDo91

    BaranDo91 Rebelscum

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    That is one thing I will give credit to Abrams, acknowledging criticism. It's very rare that I find directors and creators are open about that stuff. Because, let's be honest; criticism can suck. Especially, if it isn't constructive and really just people yelling/ whining. The question will be whether or not he will follow through on it.

    And that could be complicated, depending on the second-weekend box office drop. I wouldn't be shocked if Episode Nine undergoes a massive change, beyond just dealing with Fisher's death. And really, given the fan divisiveness(which yes, this movie is polarizing. I still enjoyed this movie, in spite of its flaws).


    My worst case situation is that LF forces Abrams to do another TFA and play it safe. But I'm hopeful for a more middle ground approach in that make Episode Nine a bit more traditional, but also keep a lot of what transpired in TLJ. This could be bringing back Lando, but I can actually see Luke Skywalker being more prominent in Nine as a Force Ghost or if so, maybe JJ brings him back.

    The good thing about Luke's death(or ascendance to the Force) is because of how open-ended that is, you could do anything. And if JJ wanted to resurrect Luke, you could do it like Gandalf in LOTORS where Luke went on his own spiritual journey of sorts. Maybe, to Mortis? And then he emerges as a changed individual?

    Regardless, I do not envy JJ Abrams' position. Yeah, I may not like him as a filmmaker, but knowing just how divisive TLJ is, more so than TFA(Never though I'd see that); the pressure is on. Big time.
     
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  7. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    I love The Force Awakens, I absolutely love The Last Jedi. I absolutely love The Force Awakens more because The Last Jedi. I'm also glad people are no longer talking about Rey being a Mary Sue and Rehashes. Because, as The Last Jedi showed, Rey is neither a Mary Sue nor is TFA a rehash.
     
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  8. JTerry

    JTerry Clone Trooper

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    Rey sums up how I feel about Abrams when I saw TLJ

    After seeing TFA
    ‘That one’s garbage’

    After seeing TLJ
    ‘The garbage will do’
     
    #8 JTerry, Dec 19, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
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  9. CnlSandersdeKFC

    CnlSandersdeKFC Rebel Official

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    That's a perfect metaphor for the ST in general. The quad jumper is the trilogy we thought we wanted, the Falcon is the trilogy we're getting. We thought the quad jumper, the one we all ran to, would be the superior vessel, but then it get's blown up by TLJ, and now we're going to realize that the Falcon was always the better ship.
     
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  10. stencil

    stencil Rebel General

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    There is a difference between being open to criticism and pandering to what the fans want. JJ seems capable of re-evaluating his work based on constructive criticism but I absolutely hope he does NOT listen too much to the fans. I want him to make the movie he wants to make. I trust his feel for the Star Wars universe.

    It's so strange to me. All I ever heard about with TFA was how much people hate that movie and JJ. Now I'm hearing the same thing about TLJ. Yet presumably most people like these movies. I think if you listen too much to the "superfans" you get the false impression that people dislike these movies, when really they are very well liked.
     
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  11. BaranDo91

    BaranDo91 Rebelscum

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    You make some valid points. Indeed, the super fans I argue at times stare too close to the field to where any iota of change could be perceived as bad in that they want symmetry. And as someone who did enjoy TLJ, I appreciated the risks it did take but also rhyming in a cool way.

    But really, I do think there is some middle ground that can be achieved. Namely, in that JJ could listen to those fans, while also making the movie he wants to make. Obviously, you cannot please everyone, but I also argue things aren't so black and white in this case.

    Though, if LucasFilm does force JJ Abrams to make concessions based on these fans and the divisive nature and produce a much safer film, then my middle ground point won't be accepted.


    And yeah, I am with you, but I do disagree with you on the super fans. I wouldn't call it as so much of a false impression as in that this movie point blank is polarizing. As in, it takes a lot of bold risks and really challenges everyone's impressions of what Star Wars is. In essence, I call The Last Jedi a deconstruction of Star Wars.

    In that it addresses all the wonder and mythic legacy and then in turn pulls that all down and showcases a darker, more realistic, lack of a better word, take on those aspects. This being with Luke, The Jedi and Sith and how these elements are always doing a dance with each other. So to speak for myself, I enjoyed those elements.

    But I acknowledge that this movie as a followup to TFA is subpar. But as a standalone, I really did like it. As for what JJ Abrams does, who knows? But really, I do wish him the best of luck. Because, this film honestly makes me feel like Obi-wan atop Mustafar to Anakin when addressing the fandom. :)
     
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  12. PartyOnDarth

    PartyOnDarth Rebelscum

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    Up for me.

    TFA wasn't perfect, but JJ I think has a better grasp on star wars history, mythos and characters than Johnson does.
     
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  13. Finn is a Jedi

    Finn is a Jedi Rebel General

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    Whatever you think of TFA it definitely felt like a Star Wars movie, TLJ just didn't. Whether thats a good thing or bad thing is up to you. After seeing TLJ i was angry when I felt that TFA was a better movie than TLJ.
     
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  14. Bandini

    Bandini Force Sensitive

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    Post of the year :D
     
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  15. Finn is a Jedi

    Finn is a Jedi Rebel General

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    A variation of a Padme quote is how I feel about TLJ:
    "So this is how [Star Wars] dies, with thunderous applause"
     
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  16. Withred

    Withred Rebel Official

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    I'm worried as hell tbh, I'll explain why in a sec. For me TLJ was better than TFA because it was different. TFA, while decent, was same old same old to me.

    Instead of JJ, I'm more worried about his script writing partner, of Batman Vs Superman and Justice League fame, Chris "MARTHA, BAD ROMANCE AND CHARACTER ARCS, AND DON'T FORGET CRINGY VILLAIN DIALOGUE" Terrio.

    With JJ, he doesn't have a track record of creating good sequels. He directed God awful Star Trek into darkness as a sequel. He's great at first films in franchises, and produced lots of original stuff that's a mixed bag, but I think he stumbles in the sequel area.

    That's why I thinks people who hate TLJ now, and think it's bad, will hate IX just as much. Because of nonsensical plot, bad dialogue and crazy character decisions.
     
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  17. Finn is a Jedi

    Finn is a Jedi Rebel General

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    Chris Terrio also got an Oscar for writing Argo, and BvS while disappointing gets way more blast than it deserves. You also can't blame him (at least entirely) for Justice League when half the movie was rewritten by Joss Whedon. Star trek Into Darkness wasn't a bad movie, the problem was that they wanted to do a new version of Wrath of Khan (which no matter what wan't going to sit well with fans) and then continuously lied about Khan being in the movie.
     
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  18. Withred

    Withred Rebel Official

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    To each their own. For instance, I hated each of the movies in my post and yours, and Argo was underwhelming as an Oscar film. You can't deny BvS had a lot of stupid moments and bad dialogue though.
     
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  19. Flyboy

    Flyboy Force Sensitive

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    JJ's stock is the same.

    It always baffled me how much hate and "hack" comments he can get when all he's ever put out is consistently good work. Consistency might mean boring at times, sure... but it hardly ever means bad. You won't get the spectacular of Rian Johnson, and by spectacular I don't mean quality, I mean style of filmmaking... but honestly, that might be what the fandom needs right now, someone to reign the franchise back in.

    JJ's taken the criticisms and I don't think he's going to fall into the same hole he did with TFA. I'm excited to see what he does with 9.
     
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  20. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Argo portrays a Hollywood producer as a hero. That's all that is needed to win an Oscar sometimes...

    But seriously, make a fluff piece about Hollywood or the press and your Oscar nom is almost assured.
     
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