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Alien invasion,is this the shocking truth?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by McDiarmid, May 22, 2017.

  1. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Lol no not by the time of ANH seven since clones age twice as fast as normal humans. Apparently what I read as canon months ago is no longer there. .
     
  2. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    , but indeed, since we are derailed anyway, why would Kylo treaten Hux that Snoke could use Clone army if such possibility is not an real option, or not debated?
    Hux is obviously desturbed by the possibility his trainees be replaced with clones.
     
    #42 McDiarmid, May 24, 2017
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
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  3. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    it was a tongue in cheek/throw away line by jj abrams.
     
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  4. Rufus2fist

    Rufus2fist Rebelscum

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    I dont know how I feel about it , but I definitely think this is the direction we are headed. Maybe not exactly, but if not this something very like this.
    the way I am trying to think about it (prepare my self as a '77 first dayer)
    the universe we know and love is really just the micro to the macro
    Micro it is the west: old dusty and slow, bad things, really bad things happen but it is a simpler time a "the good ol' days"
    Marco to me being a larger world, the fast paced city (philosophically to the viewer)
    so to speak

    maybe Palps use all his might (and next the the lightening rod of "the Chosen One"), felt out to the deepest/darkest
    both physically in the canon EU but in areas still left to imagine
    To cheat death, HE reached out and felt forever
    and the IT was "awoken" by the pleagius/palps/vader trio

    or

    the midicholians were just the radios and the jedi/sith where the teenage kids of the 50's listening to rock n roll for the first time. only a few could really hear it and being the equivalent of repressed hormones exploded in the jedi/sith sock hop dance
    they thought they could control it, but maybe it was controlling them from the outer verse


    Snoke is so powerful he reached out all the way to an unborn child from basically no where
    you think he is the only one out there? imagine thousands of his kind
    hell they could be the living embodiment of the force for all we know at this point.
    they are the real band playing our loved ones like a fiddle

    How do you fight something that wields the force so freely or is literally has been the force all along. Does it even matter to be the last jedi, has LUKE found ancient truths or discovered new ones to recognize this insignificant existence ? maybe being the last Jedi is a burden knowing the truth "being enlightened" to know your family and those you love are all just Pawns.
     
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  5. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Snoke is powerfull indeed. His influence over Ben while still a baby is extraordinary capability.
    I will not be surprised if Rey, which is some year younger, was hide there at Jakku, from Snoke's influence to.

    Jakku is one big anomaly of the Force, it has a Planet core that is active and "alive" according to Aftermath novels, which means( I believe) it could mask the presence of Force sensitive being on its surface , putting it out of the reach of Snoke's remote sensing.
     
    #45 McDiarmid, May 25, 2017
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
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  6. BespinMinersUnion1138

    BespinMinersUnion1138 Force Sensitive

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    No. I'm no Vong hater. But. No.

     
  7. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    No Vong, Vongs are ugly. I noted in original post this is some a general idea how would story about axtragalactic invasion go.

    This ours story in the film, if true, is onviously reacher than Vong story already , since we have Firss Order as puppets of the invading race, and behind this is Snoke's jet not indentified Race.

    I mean, Snoke already is an Alien,isnt it?, and one of a kind which race can not be indenitified jet.
     
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  8. NotQyteNeo

    NotQyteNeo Force Sensitive

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    "His influence over Ben while still a baby is extraordinary capability."

    How did you learn that Snoke had influence on Ben as a baby?
     
  9. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Aftermath: Empire's end


    Thus: there are 3 books released subsequently in the last 3 years, and this books are foundation of new Star Wars canon, they are explaining the saga from the Return of the Jedi (episode VI) to just a few years before The Force Awakens(Episode VII).


    This is a highly recommended read for any Star Wars fan.

    [​IMG]
     
    #49 McDiarmid, May 25, 2017
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
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  10. NotQyteNeo

    NotQyteNeo Force Sensitive

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    I read those books. Where did it say Snoke was influencing Ben?
     
  11. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    I am sad to conclude you did not read it entirely or did it but didn't understand the subtleties.

    Here I will pay my debt for lectoring my English, so you don't need to read it yourself again (in best intentions).
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Excerpt 1:

    Luke. She reaches for him but doesn’t find him.
    The dark, now lit with stars. One by one, like eyes opening. Comforting at first, then sinister as she worries. Who is out there, who is watching us? Hands reach for her, hands of shadow, lifting her up, reaching for her throat, her wrists, her stomach -
    Inside, the child kicks. She feels her baby turning inside, right-side, up and down, struggling to find his bearings, trying so hard to find his way free of her. It’s not time, she thinks. Just a little longer.
    Leia.
    Luke, she wants to cry out. But her words don’t come. Her mouth is sealed, a hand pressed over it. One by one, stars go dark again, winking out of existence as if by a hand slowly closing over them -
    Leia!
    She gasps and wakes. Han. It’s just Han. He’s by her side of the bed, rousing her, gently shaking her shoulder.
    The dream recedes like a wave going back to sea.
    Hi, she says, her mouth tacky, her eyes full of sleep. Her middle twists too - it’s not the baby. It’s some unseen fear uncoiling. The remnants of the dream haunt her - but they break apart like a sand castle as she sits up and clears her head, doing as Luke taught her to do.
    Breathe in breathe out. Be mindful of the world, the galaxy, your place within it. Everything will be OK. The Force will be your guide.

    Excerpt 2:

    He is less a human shaped thing and more a pulsing, living band of light. Light that sometimes dims, that sometimes is thrust with a vein of darkness. She tells herself that it’s normal - Luke said to her, Leia, we all have that. He explained that the brighter the light, the darker the shadow.
    Right now, her son is upset, tumbling inside her as if he can’t get comfortable. His light, flickering with dark. She centers herself and concentrates. The walls of the room fall away. Everything is white and then it’s black. Then she’s in the calm, airless void. As Leia finds her peace, so does her son. He stops turning…
    Then he gets the hiccups.
    Hic.Hic.Hic.
    She sighs and it brings her out of it. But she laughs, too. Because the hiccups tickle her. They are like bubbles inside - a curious effervescence like nothing Leia ever felt before.
    My son is alive. The future is bright.

    The baby turns inside her again, troubled by something she cannot feel and cannot yet understand.

    -------------------------------------------------------

    Also, this dialogue from the TFA novel(first book)

    “Leia bit her lower lip, refusing to concede. “No. It was Snoke.”

    Han drew back slightly. “Snoke?”

    She nodded. “He knew our child would be strong with the Force. That he was born with equal potential for good or evil.”

    “You knew this from the beginning? Why didn’t you tell me?”

    She sighed. “Many reasons. I was hoping that I was wrong, that it wasn’t true. I hoped I could sway him, turn him away from the dark side, without having to involve you.” A small smile appeared.

    “You had—you have—wonderful qualities, Han, but patience and understanding were never among them. I was afraid that your reactions would only drive him farther to the dark side. I thought I could shield him from Snoke’s influence and you from what was happening.” Her voice dropped. “It’s clear now that I was wrong. Whether your involvement would have made a difference, we’ll never know.”

    He had trouble believing what he was hearing. “So Snoke was watching our son.”

    “Always,” she told him. “From the shadows, in the beginning, even before I realized what was happening, he was manipulating everything, pulling our son toward the dark side.”


    So Snoke was watching our son.
    Always,” she told him. “From the shadows, in the beginning, even before I realized what was happening, he was manipulating everything, pulling our son toward the dark side.”(Aftermath, the first novel).


    [​IMG]

    --- Double Post Merged, May 25, 2017, Original Post Date: May 25, 2017 ---
    Snoke is unlike anthing we sough before in terms of the subtleties of his knollwledge of the Force.

    There was never a Force user that was said to been able to infleunce fetus of unborn child in a womb of another Force sensitive woman, doing it from the other side of the Galaxy.

    Extraorinary being. From my point of view his knowledge is anlike enything that was ever met in this Galaxy.

    It is the fundament of the Dark Side that is "comming from the space beyond the border of this Galaxy", as the Emperor Palpatine foreseen in the Aftermath novel.
     
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  12. NotQyteNeo

    NotQyteNeo Force Sensitive

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    @McDiarmid: I did not read the TFA novel - looks like I need to. The context in Aftermath says someone or something - seemingly dark - seems to be influencing or bothering unborn Ben. It does not say it is Snoke. So I would counter that you knew it was Snoke from reading the TFA novel. And with that knowledge(which i did not have when reading Aftermath), you saw those passages in Aftermath as reaffirming and building upon the fact that it was Snoke - correct?
     
    #52 NotQyteNeo, May 26, 2017
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  13. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    This explains why you thought it is not said.

    In the first novel Lea mentions to Han that Snoke was influencing their son from the begining....when reading this in 2015 I was not aware of the entire magnitude of the significance of this line. Nobody was.

    Second book: nothing to "hang on "about this.

    Than in a last book in trology it is described how dark presence literally "grasps her womb", making fetus of Ben desturbed and all other things I cited.
    Than you back to First book Lea's statement and its absoluetly clear.

    Now, let this stay in between us(;)) I am still not sure after few readings of this pinpointed lines, is it even possible that Lea says that she actually felt this destrubance in her stomach before she felt that Ben became live fetus for the first time (which will imply direct Snoke influence on Ben's fetus becomig alive...this is here now overstretch and I can not say I can find this is exactly said in the text....but.
     
    #53 McDiarmid, May 26, 2017
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  14. NotQyteNeo

    NotQyteNeo Force Sensitive

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    "Yea this could explain why you thought it is not said."

    Just to be clear: it's not that I did not think "it was not said(that it was Snoke)". In Aftermath, it was not said. It was said in the TFA novel. It was alluded to in Aftermath.

    Having said that, and learned what is in the TFA novel - you are correct. Snoke is extremely powerful - seemingly way more powerful than Sidious. Which is why we need to get his backstory in Episode 9(since we now know it is not in TLJ).
     
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  15. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Snoke is immensly powerfull. Most logic "arc" is that he is that Dark Side source Palpatine was mentioning in the First Aftermath.

    That Aftermath (novel 1) is pivotal book now It is clear, for it to be undestand other books were needed, those that followed, and than we were able to go back to understand.

    From the Aftermath novel (1):

    “No Sith remain,” Tashu says. “And the lone Jedi that exists—the son of Anakin Skywalker —possesses an untouchable soul.
    At least for now.
    We must instead move toward the dark side.
    Palpatine felt that the universe beyond the edges of our maps was where his power came from.
    Over the many years he, with our aid, sent men and women beyond known space.
    They built labs and communication stations on distant moons, asteroids, out there in the wilds.
    We must follow them.
    Retreat from the galaxy.
    Go out beyond the veil of stars.

    We must seek the source of the dark side like a man looking for a wellspring of water.”

    Perhaps, since I am not native English speaker, I am rare one who thinks that , "beyond the veils of stars"..."retreat from the galaxy", means without a doubt we are talking about EXTRAGALACTIC thing in its origin, not a thing from Unknown Regions of this galaxy( though Snoke now already is in the Unknown Regions ,obviously)
     
    #55 McDiarmid, May 26, 2017
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  16. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    That's flowery language meant to obfuscate the meaning it is an attempt to be both sciency and mysterious. Which is exactly what Star Wars should be. "beyond the veil of stars" given they have said that out side the galaxy is wild space, black hole and stuff doesn't necessarily mean another galaxy. Retreat from the galaxy is a euphemism for hide. They are hiding in the wilderness and they believe something is out there. Here there be dragons. It doesn't necessarily mean that some bad guys from another galaxy are going to show up and run amok. In a galaxy of thousands of worlds brining in something from another place seems unnecessary.

    In KOTOR the Rakata Prime Empire had something way out on the edge of the galaxy as well as ruins through out the galaxy. I believe Revan and Malak left the known galaxy and returned.
     
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  17. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    "Retreat from the galaxy"
    "beyond the veil of stars"

    that is what is written in Aftermath.

    I said English is not my native language and I can accept there could other meanings of "retreat from the galaxy" and "veils of stars".
    But it sounds to me as obvious referring on intergalactic space.

    Which means that Dark source Palpatine felt (around 40 years before New trilogy), in that moment was still not within boundaries of the Galaxy or he sensed this entity originated from the outside of the Galaxy.


    Now, that "Dark presence" is apprently in new trilogy already within the Galaxy, which is interesting possible dynamics that reminds me of , well of this thread OP.;)
     
    #57 McDiarmid, May 26, 2017
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  18. Rufus2fist

    Rufus2fist Rebelscum

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    So if rey was put on JAK to hide, why wasn't Luke there too?
    I mean wouldn't it have been easy for Snoke to reach out and find luke? does the tree help hide him?
     
  19. NotQyteNeo

    NotQyteNeo Force Sensitive

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    @McDiarmid uses the term "Extragalactic" which means "outside the galaxy." This could include other galaxies, but this does not explicitly mean "another galaxy". I think he is just referring to the dark, unknown space outside of the galaxy.
     
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  20. BespinMinersUnion1138

    BespinMinersUnion1138 Force Sensitive

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    It's entirely possible Snoke is the reincarnate of Brother from the Mortis Arc.
     
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