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Alien invasion,is this the shocking truth?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by McDiarmid, May 22, 2017.

  1. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    One thing about this idea is that it assumes Snoke is the real antagonist of the ST and not Kylo. Kylo might betray him and take the throne. At which point Sn9ke remains an imperial remnant figure who rose to power, a regional governor that rallied the most support, some sort of undead revenant strong with the dark side.
     
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  2. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Snoke seems to me to powerful to be overthrown like that. I still can't comprehend how was he able to influence Lea's own baby over that distance. Lea felt his grip on her throat and pressure in her womb... this is described in Aftermath Empire's End. Besides, Snoke can be clearly indentified as this "Dark presence" in the Unknown Space that only Palpatine felt .

    How can some local governor or, Kronal like character (I thought that once) became so powerfull.? Good old sick perverted Plagueis could ascend to such levels,indeed he is the only from known galaxy that could match this, but as we know he is dismissed as possibility.

    If it is some Emperors dark Side prophet or governor , that is shaping Lea's fetus after became so powerfull in his later years, it is than overstretch, and mr. bad writing indeed, and I hope Story department have aknowledged that already..

    So I strongly believe Snoke is powerfull being from Unknown space. I also believe he will do something horrible to the level that Kylo will turn against him for doing that, and I believe this turning factor could be Snoke's intention- of genocyde over the entire known galactic civilization.

    Or Rey is Kylo's gorgeous little sister and we will have one big nooooooooo! and Snoke thrown into some shaft...:D
     
    #82 McDiarmid, May 29, 2017
    Last edited: May 29, 2017
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  3. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    I was unaware on canon Snoke was actually identified as the disturbance Palpatine felt. I thought that was a possibility?

    How he is so powerful will depend on what his back story is. Also different powers don't automatically equal greater powers.

    But if he's some undead darksider then he is powerful and ancient now released from his prision in a world out beyond the Chiss.

    If he is a regional governor perhaps he was always facinated with the force but never wanted to give up political power he was smart enough to back Palpatine hence he was a goveror. When the imp remnant rallied in secret he rose to political control and poured through all of Sidious'dark side acrane secrets.

    When we know more the other pieces fall into place.

    I think that. Ham's warning will sit heavy on Kylo and Snoke will think he is easily controlled and over confident. 1 lightsabre temper tantrum and Kylo is running the 1st Order.
     
  4. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    We will see into it.
    Kylo first needs to prove he can beat...the girl.
    Than he must challenge, or evade the challenge, aginst mighty Luke.
    He also must dispose Hux , making Force grup and cutting of Hux into peaces to look like an accident.

    Only than may he challenge Snoke:D
     
    #84 McDiarmid, May 29, 2017
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  5. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    The girl is off hiding windsurfing with ole Luke. Snoke is right in front of Kylo in another derogatory riff on how pathetic he is. Kylo has his sabre the old geezer is right there.
     
  6. Darth Daigo

    Darth Daigo Rebel Official

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    It is clear that many questions surrounding Snoke are still unanswered (and, judging from Rian Johnson's recent comments, many of them will remain unanswered after watching TLJ). However, I fail to see how they would be answered by making Snoke a creature from another galaxy (rather than a creature from the Unknown Regions).
     
  7. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    I will be the best answer, in my opinion, to question why is Snoke so powerfull and ambitious jet never detected over milenia , as well as why everything that happened in last 50-100 years in the galaxy is known to him. He and his force came into galaxy relatively recently and started probing and gathering inteligence data in his preparation to strike.

    He is able (repeating many times never heard alternative explanation) to influence trough the Force Lea 's baby which was on the other side of the Galaxy.??? So he obtsained this power now ?

    I am just speculating I hope that truth about real Snoke in the film will shock me in positive way.
     
    #87 McDiarmid, May 30, 2017
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  8. Darth Daigo

    Darth Daigo Rebel Official

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    Millennia? I seem to recall from Empire's End that Snoke had "witnessed" the rise and fall of the Galactic Empire from afar, which suggests that he has been around for 50 to 100 years. I cannot recall any source for Snoke existing thousands and thousands of years. Could you tell me where you obtained that piece of information? Furthermore, unless I misunderstood, you seem to have difficulties with the fact that Snoke influenced Kylo Ren in Leia's womb from the other side of the Galaxy but not mind that Snoke influenced Kylo Ren all the way from a completely different Galaxy.
     
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  9. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    If Maz Kanata is 1000+ years old,and it is, believe me Snoke looks even older. Of course I could be totaly wrong, however this assumption looks to me most plausible.

    Anyway, Snoke's ability to sense Force sensitive being from other side of the Galaxy is extraordinary. In fact to act,not just sense, make Lea feel his grip on her throat and in stomach. wow. However from the material I dont know for sure is it a canon now - we know galaxy is surrounded by a fearsome Energy field-a manifestation of the Force in extragalctic dimensions, that protects the galaxy. Trying to get in or get out of the galaxy requiers navigating trough weakspots or" gaps" in this Field, called vectors. We can presume Snoke would have difficulty in his remote sensing outside the galaxy.And we have a hint---Rey has been hide on Jakku.And Jakku has high concentration of the Force in ts core, which probably masked Rey's presence and protect her from Snoke's remote sensing--ha?

    Was he born 100, 80, years ago in the UR of this galaxy? Possibly. Extraordinary force weilder in this case, more Powerfull or at least as powerfull as Palpatine, and Anakin.. Was he ancient but he was sleeping, awakened, again why he knows everything that happened in last 50-100 years?

    So we have only 2 options:
    , he was born "100 or less" years ago in the UR as a very powerfull Force weilder with extraordinary skill.
    Or he came from abroad 100 or less years ago,probing, waiting to strike.

    Now imagine to have such power, and gathering information, and to be inactive for decades, this means to me waiting to execute strike in critical moment.

    And we have new information, that almost certainly Snoke ,or more likely some force affiliated to him, was troubling Thrawn's race for decades already, which very well fitts to the theory of invading force that is scouting and probing the galaxy. It is indicator Snoke is not lonely Dark Side being discovered there in the UR by the First Order, because obviously even before he became boss of the First Order he coordinated some other mean forces.

    He can be from UR, but I find it will be more plausible story if he came from the other Galaxy.
     
    #89 McDiarmid, May 30, 2017
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  10. Burter

    Burter Clone Commander

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    Great post there McDiarmid. It would be very interesting to see if this played out as you said. The only thing I see differently is what you say about the Yuuzhan Vong almost destroying SW as I really think that this is not the case. You should know by now that SW fans are some of the hardest fans to please and many of them argue that they hate so many things about SW yet blindly gobble it up and enjoy it while saying they hate it. Can we really say that fans hated it to the point of SW being destroyed when said series was so well recieved by fans that it spawned 19 novels? Not only that but various comics, action figures and books as well and they were even going to be featured in the CW series.

    Something deeply hated by fans would not receive such approval and would have just been dropped when fan interest began to wane. Just look at the PT as an example. Fans flooded the theatres and watched said movies over and over again and they own the films in DVD, Blue Ray, Steelbook and every other thing available and yet ask them on a forum and you will still get the whole them hating the PT arguments.

    But back to your theories which I greatly enjoyed, I can really see all of that coming together and you gave me a few things to think about. Could Snoke be the same as Onimi? We all know that Snoke is deformed yet he can manipulate the Force and the very same thing happened to Onimi. While he was deformed when he tried to graft Yammosk tissue onto his brain and became a Shamed One, that very same process let Onimi regain his connection to the Force. It was he who masterminded the whole invasion and he did it all from the shadows just like Snoke has been doing.
     
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  11. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

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    you are quite right about SW fans... we are a passionate bunch, and we are at the far end of the scale in terms of what we want/love/hate from the saga.

    I have backed the Vong idea to an extent (always being careful not to upset my fellow fans lol), but we need to realize that whether an EU story was a success or a completely ridiculously crazy failure... they will pick bits and pieces from potentially all of it and make something new for us.

    They won't introduce us to the Vong, or the Krath etc, but they may pick bits out of lots of EU stories to make something new that will blow our socks off. The knights of Ren could quite easily be a small part of a larger force.. something Vong like. Snoke could well be something like Onimi, or perhaps a mix of the dark sorcerer Ommin and something else.

    If they do it, it will be new. We would spot an EU copy a million miles away, so they would have to heavily disguise and ideas they use from that material.

    If they cherry pick stuff from stories about Revan, Nadd, Vong, Krath etc etc... i would be a very very happy ikkle star wars fan !
     
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  12. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I think at the very least, it's not unlikely that Snoke is from the unknown regions. After all, looking at the current canon, here's essentially what we know:

    1. Empire is beaten back and eventually retreats into the Unknown Regions.
    2. Some time later, the First Order rises from the Empire's ashes.
    3. During that time, Snoke had presumably arisen to lead the First Order.

    So, while the Imperial remnant was out in the unknown regions, a being named Snoke comes seemingly out of nowhere and takes control. It's certainly not out of the realm of possibility that Snoke called the Unknown Regions home before the Empire arrived. Perhaps even his resources out there helped get the Empire back on its feet, which helped give him the leverage to gain power in the First Order.

    Speaking of which... "First Order" of what? They're essentially the second incarnation of the Empire, which itself was brought about from the Republic. There's almost nothing original or First about it, unless you consider that it's original to the eyes of a different culture.
     
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  13. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Thank you for your support and your view on Yuuzhuan Vong from the pespective of Star Wars fan. Please note I do not claim there is consensus about the Vong Wars. As we see there are people who see the entire serries as a positive developement, and there people on the other corner of opinion.

    It is influential material-for instance I believe almost everything that happens with Jacen Solo in these books laid the groundwork for what we ended up getting with Kylo Ren. To be honest, and to tell my "little secret", this jacen Solo and Kylo paralels made me believe Story Department could use much more from this The New Jedi order series, and why not idea of extragalactic invasion, which is a centerpiece of it.

    I will post in here example of negative crtics about Vong, and I do not share same thoughts, just as an example. I believe series had its powerfull moments. I do believe however Vongs were not entirely balanced race, with, at some points, bringing out some "clishee's". However I do think it is a good reading and important material that certainly(as we already mentioned) hold ideas that were and will be used by Story Department and reintroduced in the Canon.
    Extragalactic invasion is thrilling development and would bring fresh air to the film witout a doubt.And I think it will. The second rodert is "second Empire"--here is se a clishee' on its own that should be refreshed by adding some alien invading force in to the story background.
    .I would personaly like using the idea in a somewhat "milder" version of this invader race to see in the film. Which I think already happens, since I think Snoke is more tactical and uses First Order to weaken galactic prior to final strike, which already points on changes(if I am right it is an invasion).

    here. read what guy had to say .http://www.huffingtonpost.com/inverse/star-wars-was-nearly-ruin_b_10832354.html
     
    #93 McDiarmid, May 30, 2017
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  14. BespinMinersUnion1138

    BespinMinersUnion1138 Force Sensitive

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    The Vong made the universe dangerous and made our heroes face death. The execution of it all was left wanting more overall. I thought it started really strong. But suffered from conclusion pains.
     
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  15. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Very concise opinion and I agree.

    On te other hand you see Jacen Solo was developed as a character in exactly those novel serries and Iaid the groundwork for what we ended up getting with Kylo Ren.

    So, we have "forensic proof" if I can say that , that Story Department ( or filmmaker ,whoever developed TFA concept) has already been in this material and used one its element, Jacen Solo as a base for Kylo Ren.. Could it be they also considered general concept of extragalactic invasion from same material ? Why not I think, I think its plausible assumption.
     
    #95 McDiarmid, May 30, 2017
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  16. BespinMinersUnion1138

    BespinMinersUnion1138 Force Sensitive

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    What I hated was that Jacen used the dark side to help the galaxy push back the Vong. It undermined the light side of the Force. The death of Anakin in the series was pointless.
     
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  17. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Yes, and if you think, in the Sequel trilogy again we have relativization of the Light and Dark sides, and in fact it could end in Kylo, as a Darksider helping the galaxy at the enmd I think.(just like Jace who fell on the dark side to help the galaxy).

    Death of Anakin is already pointless in Sequel trilogy as it brings Snoke, however if he is from the Other Galaxy, we can argue it is external new treat and former prophecy of balancing the Force was fulfilled but Snoke ( and his race?) came from abroad, bringing new inbalance.

    Having Snoke been born and lived in the same galaxy in the time and after the death of Anakin /Palpatine, makes prophecy of balancing the force pointless, from certain point of view.
     
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  18. Master Skywalker

    Master Skywalker Rebel Commander

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    What's funny is that, originally, it was Jacen Solo who was going to die during the New Jedi Order series; Unfortunately it was during the height of the prequel trilogy, which brought in Anakin Skywalker, and George Lucas mandated that Anakin Solo had to die, so as to avoid confusing the audience and younger consumers.
     
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  19. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Jacen and Kylo have very much in common, (obviously Kylo is Jacen modiffied, not a Sith which is main and almost only significant difference). Kylo does not need to die also if he turns against Snoke at the end, which will be preferable as he is the only son of Lea and Han, unless Disney/ LSL wants eternal stigma of those who made Skywalkers and Solo's families extinct even without Yuuzhan Vong genocyde.:confused:
     
    #99 McDiarmid, May 30, 2017
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  20. Master Skywalker

    Master Skywalker Rebel Commander

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    It's difficult to tell what Lucasfilm's aim is; I personally feel Kylo Ren will die as a villain, never redeemed. Luke may be the only surviving Skywalker after all is said and done, unless there's a familial revelation coming.

    I've always believed Snoke was some undead, ancient dark lord. Not Sith, but something older from the unknown regions. I do believe Snoke is what was waiting in the Unknown Regions, and the First Order are now his instruments of destruction.
     
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