An analysis of the Knights of Ren, the Church of the Force, and what they represent.

That certainly makes sense.
I'd also include The Acolytes of the Beyond in this discussion as well.

I'm thinking that they introduced the Church of the Force and the Knights of Ren to bring in a more religious element to the story. Using the duality of Anakin/Vader, he can become a messiah figure for both factions - the light and the dark.

I think the Acolytes' role in this could be in that they are the 'spiritual' component of the Dark Side faction (with the KOR being the militilistic side - mirroring church of the Force and Jedi). The Acolytes are simply believers in the way of the Dark Side and are devout servants to it. It would be interesting to see these regular, non force using people as part of the story. Perhaps they could take a role that symbolises the barbaric extremists that terrorise the world today? I think it would be great if they mirror the rise of extremism in the world today with more and more people supporting the 'dark side cause'.

These movies seem very much geared towards being about the legacy of both Darth Vader and Luke, so I'm guessing these two rival factions will play a larger role in Episode VIII.

 

The visual dictionary mentions the Church of the Force as non-Force Sensitive people who hold the ideals of the Jedi. They are not sabre wielders and force pushers but they believe in democracy, justice and compassion.

The Knights of Ren we know even less about ironically because there was more news about them.

 

1. do you believe age to be the relevant factor in sith training?
Count Dooku / Darth Tyranus

how old would he have been to have completed his jedi training?

2. i don't believe the New Cannon has established any real lightsaber lore yet and will be exciting to see how they handle it.

3. kylo ren has clearly constructed a crude saber so if he wanted them to posses one I'm sure he would teach them how to make one. there is a lot more to the construction of a lightsaber and the possession of one then has yet been delt with. do you agree?

As a last point when we see the younglings with the saber its worth keeping in mid they were under attack and had gone for there training sabres. i don't believe they would have been permitted to carry the weapon of a trained jedi, which was my origin point.

 

Sorry I'm less familiar with the Clone Wars, I'm a little familiar with the concept of the Kyber crystals, so once in position of a Kyber crystal, the crystal channels the force?

 

Great thread.

I personally love how "meta" some of these new aspects are.
Like how there are literally "fan boys" in the movie, like there are in real life.

And how Rey, as an outsider, gets to learn who luke skywalker is, just like a young kid that you take to the movies will learn who he is.

I think the KOR and church of the force are there to add mystery and a sense of history...

Also want to point out a possible distinction between the two.
The COTF worship the force.
The KOR worship kylo.
The distinction supports the premise for this trilogy (my speculation) - which is about inheritance.

Kylo, born of tremendous power. Falls from grace.
Rey, abandoned. Inherits nothing. Rises from nothing to become hero.

Once again, it's about the same wise perspective the the COTF have that the KOR do not.
The COTF worship the source of the power. The KOR worship the vessel of that power.

People are fallible. The force is infallible.

 

I always considered the introduction of "Knights of Ren" a narrative loophole in order to introduce more bad guys to the scene, leaping over the Sith rule of two, SO FAR everything KoR have done could be done by Sith in the very same order except if they were Sith it will be only Snoke and Kylo Ren and with the Knights of Ren we got Snoke and seven Knights of Ren (including Kylo Ren). I think in the long run the Knights of Ren will balance better the fight against the Jedi and the naming "Ren" could provide some interesting background to be explored in another media.

 

Ren= Lotus (Japanes), humanity (Chinese), the lotus is often used symbolically to represent 'eternal life' and 'immortality' in both western and eastern literary contexts.

There are 7 knights of Ren = In western literature the number '7' symbolizes the seven deadly/ prime sins in christianity. Equally it stands symbolical for "purgatory" (where the sins of man are cleansed and the soul is purified) and "resurrection" & "eternal life" (at the appearance of Christ at the last judgement)

Connection to Plagueis (conjectured as Snoke) and Kylo Ren: Plagueis translates as 'root/source/origins of evil/malice', 'chastisement' and 'root /source/origins of chastisement' in post-classical Latin. We also know that Plagueis held a special interest in trying to cheat death (Revenge of the Sith). It was also the carrot for Anakin's turn. Palpatine needed Anakin to be strong in the darkside in order to cheat death. This might explain Snoke (Plagueis) particular interest in Anakin's grandchildren: Ben Solo (confirmed), Rey (conjecture). From the new books released (visual dictionary and novelizations) we also learn that after the galactic concordance the Imperial remnant started to retreat into the unknown regions of the Galaxy to literally uncover the 'root/source/origins' of the Dark Side: i.e. Plagueis

The knights of Ren have a special interest in the dark quest for immortality. It also explains why Kylo Ren is their leader. Possibly the knights of Ren were created by Snoke. Ben Solo merely became its leader and assumed the title of Ren. Like Anakin, Palpatine and Plagueis, the Knights of Ren belief that if the darkside becomes strong enough, and they themselves become strong in the darkside, they will be able to achieve their own immortality. This also explains why they serve Ben Solo, because they believe like Snoke that he is the key person who can help them achieve this goal. If Ben Solo fails, the interest naturally shifts to Rey (conjecture-the other skywalker) who might help them achieve the same goal (Snoke to Kylo Ren- "Bring her to me!")
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As for the Church of the Force: perhaps a nod to the existing 'church of the force' in the UK today. Non force users upholding the principles of the Jedi and studying their knowledge of the Force without necessarily trying to achieve power or benefit from it.

 

With the fall of the empire, in aftermath, there is a group going around looking for dark side relics. I think that is the Knights of Ren or its beginning. Also, without the Empire stopping people from going to Jedi temples, there must be those who explore and learn about the old Jedi order. I like the idea that the Church of the Force is being established. It could open the Star Wars universe up for many intersting stories.

What is most interesting is what makes a person a Sith or Jedi, is it the use of emotion in battle or is it what one ultimately does with one's power? Use force lighting to kills a mass murdering sith as a Jedi, is that not a light side act? In the old Jedi Order, that would have been seen as going to the dark side. KOTOR set up some very intersting ideas about different ways over the years that the Jedi, limited the light side user's power because they feared absolute power corrupts absolutely.

It would be very neat to see a smaller force of Jedi and smaller force of Sith battling it out. Not just always this rule of two, etc...

 

@odmichael and @FreddieMac

Not a big fan of the force lightning, it worked for the emperor because he was old but by using it it drained him and F@*ked up his face.
it was a last resort rather than chanaling the force via the sabre, HE became the conduit of the force.

There is a interesting debate about the new jedi code, and how it should be felt with here.
https://thecantina.starwarsnewsnet.com/index.php?threads/lukes-new-jedi-code.8676/

It defiantly needs updating, the use of emotions, in the originals was more about mastering your fears, not surpassing your passions.

 

Actually the reason why his face melted was because Mace Windhe reflected it right back into him .

 

haha. no it wasn't.
"I'm to weak anikin help. i can't hold him" the power physically drains his life force.
Think of it as a bee's stinger. a last resort. thats why he has a sabre. to fight or he would just use the lightning all the time.

 

Yeah...that's what it looked like...Insaw ROTS today. Sidious's face is fine until he shoots lightning. He hits windy' saber and it's deflected back onto Sidious and Sidious gets weaker and is literally smoking .