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Battle in the Throne Room

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Moral Hazard, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. ReyErso5280

    ReyErso5280 Rebel General

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    I loved this scene. some may call it corny but the minute the force theme started to pound out of those speakers and Rey turns around to look at him in shock...then seeing his lightsaber light. i loved how in the wide shot the music almost takes a deep breath in tandem with them and then BOOM!

    I literally was going ape over this scene and had to restrain myself from jumping up and down in the cinema...i love it was raw (to quote snoke) and i loved how intense Rey was. i never thought about her taunting the guard back. oh hell yeah! i grew up on the prequel trilogy (had seen the original first) and i always hated no girl Jedis...

    I love they are sweaty, out of breath, and she is bruised at the end. you never used to see that from fight scenes (star wars or not)

    I could go on, but thanks for this thread (and the GIFs)
     
    #21 ReyErso5280, Feb 12, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
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  2. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    [​IMG]
    Soulless

    versus

    Soulfulness
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. BobaFettNY21

    BobaFettNY21 Force Attuned

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    Unfortunately there wasn't enough Ackbar to go around.
     
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  4. Chise

    Chise Rebel Official

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    [​IMG]
    Just sayin'
     
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  5. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Oh god not this again
     
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  6. M70ko

    M70ko Rebel Commander

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    Lol xD
    I agree with this new battle style being what we needed...
    It's always cool to see some Force moves... But I couldn't even remember about it then, it was nice that way, cause they showed us they just needed their will to win this together...
    @Moral Hazard I just loved Adam's little eye tic! And that thing he does with his mouth when he is under pressure.. (Right before breaking his mask in the elevator, when he is about to kill his mother, and during his proposal to Rey)
     
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  7. srg

    srg Force Attuned

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    Spectacular scene. Intense, exciting and fresh. One of TLJ highlights. I like the brutal, dense choreography, it makes the scene juicy. You can feel the danger. Huge props to Adam (the man kills it in the fight scenes - no pun intended) and Daisy but also to the stunt guys playing Praetorians, because they probably couldn't see much and the costumes must have been uncomfortable.

    It's worth pointing out that it's not only the fight itself, but the camerawork, the design of the location and the guards, the colours and the idea for the red curtain burning down, which made the vibe of the whole scene evolve in a clever way. Ah, the more I think about it the better it gets.

    2 minor gripes:
    - The scene could use a more epic cue. At least at the very beginning, after the slow-mo shot. I still dig what we got, don't get me wrong. Especially the longer version from the FYC soundtrack. And, on a side note, "A New Alliance" is a great title.
    - I wish we got a few more glimpses at Kylo's lightsaber badassery, because for the most part we see him grappling with the guards.

    Now I'm leaving this thread, because I want that scene to remain fresh in my mind until I see it on Blu-ray (i.e. I don't like cam gifs). :p
     
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  8. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    To be honest, and this is only from my perspective and not meant as a knock on the movie, I found this to be one of the least interesting fights in Star Wars. I had a hard time investing. I mean, how differently would events have turned out if this fight didn’t happen? If the Praetorian Guard weren’t even in this movie? The net result would have basically been the same.

    The meat of this plot development is what happens between Kylo and Rey after Snoke is killed. The fight is effectively flashy filler that happens between these two points. I didn’t, for a second, think either character was in any real danger. So there wasn’t any real suspense for me. It was just spectacle then - a fight for the sake of having a fight. There’s nothing wrong with that, but personally I was just waiting for it to be over so I could find out what happens next. Do they join forces or not?

    I apologize if that perspective on this sequence rubs people the wrong way. I know how positive the reception has been. I appreciate how much visible effort went into it, but ultimately I didn’t see the point and had a hard time caring.
     
    #28 eeprom, Feb 12, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
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  9. ReyErso5280

    ReyErso5280 Rebel General

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    when i saw that hip grab the first time I was like "wait did i see that right. second viewing i was like "oh get it girl!"
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 12, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 12, 2018 ---
    Fret not friend, i feel this is what its all about, everyone is entitled to their perspective. I know some of my friends said it was like dancing with the stars in Star Wars. and I don't agree but hey, that's the beauty of this franchise and films in general.

    thanks for your perspective x
     
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  10. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I read it more like this-

    It's not so much the fact that the death of the Praetorian Guards is meaningful, but that it does two things:

    1) Established a working partnership between Rey and Kylo. Whether or not this idea will ever be revisited, this is something many fans were expecting, and TLJ teased it at least. The killing of Snoke wasn't so much Rey and Kylo working in tandem, but Kylo making a decision on his own. To show the two working together, the Throne Room scene was necessary.

    2) It established Kylo's rule. I like that the PG didn't just immediately bow to Ren. I think it's possible that we'll see Ren have to fight to retain power in the First Order from now on.

    So yeah, I wouldn't look at it from the lens of "what significance do the PG have" but "how does this advance Rey and Ren's interactions?"
    Ultimately, Ren's usurping of the First Order was something that Rey ended up wanting nothing else to do with, even though she'd earned her place at its helm- a strange moment where, it's possible that Rey actually turned down Galactic peace.
     
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  11. ReyErso5280

    ReyErso5280 Rebel General

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    also to echo this, and this is something im covering in my own works is... Only the two of them (Rey and Ben) know the truth of what happened. what kind of burden is that? and how long do they keep the façade. I can only imagine if Hux finds out the truth it will be Ren's undoing.

    now some could respond that it would be assumed Snoke was killed when the supremacy was split in two and their wouldn't be a question...but yeah.
     
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  12. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Really what I’m getting at is that the scene doesn’t do much beyond reinforcing what had already been established. Rey was there because she felt ‘Ben’ could be redeemed. Kylo betraying Snoke lends credence to that notion but is then dashed when the actual motivation is revealed. The fight scene does serve to underscore that dynamic, but ultimately is only prolonging the inevitable. We’re left in relatively the same place when the fight is over as where it began. Aside from evidencing the legitimacy of a team up between them, and teasing that it could actually happen, that sequence could be removed clean from the movie with little to no impact on the story.
    Whether the guardsman, alternately not being present for that scene, would have followed him like the rest of the FO is sort of impossible to say. They challenge him because they saw him murder the guy they were there to protect. They didn’t know or care about the ‘why’ of the situation. That act made him an enemy. It makes sense they’d attack him.
    We really have no understanding of the FO power structure. The “Supreme Leader” seems to be just that. We haven’t been given any indication that Ren’s reaction to being confronted would amount to much more than “yeah, so?”
     
    #32 eeprom, Feb 12, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
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  13. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    Here are some nice killshots :p

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  14. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    The Snoke's guard are advanced sentinel droids.There is no blood, no voice from them, only smoke from their burned or cut parts, helmets or circuits.

    I guess this made them even more dangerous oponents.

    In any way I am ok with the scene, it was very well made.
     
    #34 McDiarmid, Feb 12, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2018
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  15. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    That's also a good point. There's almost an "I know what you did last summer" vibe to Kylo's rise to power. :p

    And I don't know- it's hard to see exactly what effect this will have, if any, on the series going forward. Worst case scenario, it was just an awesome fight with little external importance. And even then, I'm cool with it. It's Star Wars- if we can't have fun for its own sake, why bother?
     
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  16. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    I did really enjoy that the choreography didn’t come off as overly rehearsed, like some protracted dance number.

    Block, 1, 2, 3, slash, 1, 2 , 3, now duck, jump, and spin, 1, 2, 3 - ah ah ah, remember to only swing at your partner’s weapon now. Bravissimo!
    Wookiepedia says they were human and sites the visual dictionary as source.
     
    #36 eeprom, Feb 12, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
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  17. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    The funny thing about the lightsabre fights in the prequels is that most swings are not even directed at the opponent. They are intended to look fancy but are not meant to kill or injure.

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    The way the ST has handled lightsaber fights (Rebels Obi-Wan/Maul deserves major props too) is fantastic. There's a weight to them again.
     
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  19. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    I remember reading a theory a while back that explained this by claiming that Force sensitives use precognition to predict where their opponent's strike will be and preemptively counter it. So it only ‘appears’ like they’re swinging at the saber.

    I don’t buy it at all, but I was really impressed with the idea. Star Wars fans are next to none when it comes to rationalizing their franchise. It’s one of the things I love most about being part of this fan base.
     
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  20. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    The ability to rationalize things and irrationally hate other things is basically a prerequisite for being a Star Wars fan
     
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