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Battle in the Throne Room

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Moral Hazard, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Oh yeah. That, along with some of the lightsaber forms, is something that's always seemed really retroactive to me.

    Maybe I'm wrong and the forms are actually something that were always planned, but I always thought they were names that were retroactively applied to the actors' own sense of style in combat.

    Ah, true, but the ability to rationalize does not make you intelligent. :p

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    lol, that was exactly how I had always interpreted the Obi Wan versus Darth Vader duel.

    [​IMG]
    It looks quite hilarious.......
     
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  3. M70ko

    M70ko Rebel Commander

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    "You crossed the line scavanger, now you better rule the galaxy with me!" XD haha
    We needed that scene guys don't deny it xD
     
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  4. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Yeah, but it's about as good as it could have been all considered. I still love it for what it is no matter how goofy it looks though . . . but, man, it does look goofy :)
     
    #44 eeprom, Feb 12, 2018
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  5. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    Kylo is like"You ain't nothing, punk." stabs the guard through the heart which is his favorite move and tosses him like a sack of potatoes.

    Then when Rey drops the saber and catches and takes that guard out was so bad ass.

    The whole thing was like poetry.
     
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  6. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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    Make like you're trying to bite your opponents eyes.
    It may be impractical, but if you want to come off as crazy... :D
    Ha! I figured this choreography is a statement about their similarities in fighting style and how even a match they are in terms of power.
    I think they only used one camera in this scene too which is rare for a blockbuster fight scene. I believe i heard Rian mention they had a B camera with a wide angle set up for long shots but didn't really use it.

    When I see scenes like this it doesn't take long for my thoughts to drift to risk assessment. Anyone who's been involved in a shoot knows how much work is involved just to satisfy the insurance folks!

    I felt similarly during my first viewing too. There was so much to take in during TLJ my brain was hanging onto the main thematics and wondering how things were going to play out after this scene.

    But I do think there were other things about this scene that were important to the story. Having the anti-villain and protagonist bond through working together like @cawatrooper mentioned is one.

    Ever since @FN-3263827 mentioned (just after TFA came out) that Kylo is reminiscent of a curious cat playing with a fun new toy the metaphor has stuck with me. That dynamic of fun and prey. The fight as allies may be important for the story and his love/hate relationship with Rey. She's some scavenger who's somehow equal to the dark prince grandson of Vader - living his light side life (with his parents, his saber, his ship etc). He's obsessed with her and having a positive experience playing with her may further complicate his already unstable mindset.

    There's also other readings on a Force level that may be happening in that scene and it provides an opportunity for the next director to explore if they want.
    Another member made this great observation in another thread...
    ...anger...aggression...the dark side of The Force are they.

    fear, anger, aggression.gif

    ...calm, at peace. Passive. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.

    calm, at peace, passive.gif

    Edit: wrote TFA instead of TLJ
     
    #46 Moral Hazard, Feb 12, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
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  7. M70ko

    M70ko Rebel Commander

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    Loved this!
    And that part where they're both stuck with a guardian, and they focus on Rey and then focus on Kylo.. Then back to Rey and suddenly she drops the saber and grabs it with the other hand.. I think maybe she "force-downloaded" this move from Kylo... Or they could've somehow communicate through these scenes... And she was like: I'm trapped what do I do?
    And he's like: Me too, you still have a weapon, drop it! XD
    Cause she was struggling and then she reacted like : Oh yes, that! xd
    But I'm just saying! Haha :p
     
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  8. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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    That's an interesting read!

    Speaking of focus, I'm not sure which people were operating the camera in this scene but the focus push and pulls deserve mention too. It's an underrated skill and they were really put to the test in some of the shots.
     
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  9. M70ko

    M70ko Rebel Commander

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    Absolutely! They emphasized their team work very nicely ;)
     
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  10. KyloRen1981

    KyloRen1981 Rebel Commander

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    I was almost in tears during this scene. I didn't want Kylo and Rey to team up before the movie, but after this scene, it's all I wanted. Then when it all fell apart moments later I was crushed. =\ I don't even like Rey much - I find her character flat and boring. But, her sympathy for a broken person like Kylo made her interesting. So, I was on board. Ultimately, this is currently my favorite scene in all of Star Wars. ... despite the crushing disappointment it lead to.

    EDIT: I would have really loved one or two force uses though. Kylo shoulda used dat signature FORCE FREEZE!
     
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  11. ReyErso5280

    ReyErso5280 Rebel General

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    absolutely agree with the camera operating! i think it helped guide the brawl feel chaos on top of the choreography.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 13, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 13, 2018 ---
    I agree on all points here. (except i did like Rey from beginning) I think what I like about the ST is we are right there learning with Rey about EVERYTHING! but as an audience member we also have the third eye experience and sometimes when we are like "oh he ordered the destruction of base on Crait, he knew his mother was there. oh he knew Rey was in the falcon, he loved her one moment then wanted to destroy her the next."

    I just want to shake people and go "We know that, the Characters don't, that's the drama!" Kylo watched his tie fighters blow peole out of the bridge, he didnt see space marry poppins happen. all he knew was Rey took Snokes ship and was heading down to Crait. I mean hell i thought about it the other day (but i could be wrong) NO one knew Luke saved Vader. it wasn't until i watch the OT again that i noticed Luke was alone when he burned Vaders body, and maybe that's how Kylo got the helmet. (not sure why Luke would keep it but i digress)

    sorry back to my point. I was ultimately crushed too after this fight. and was equally crushed with Rey when she admitted she was no one and her parent were no one. I was like WHAAAA? it was the only speculation i took part of and expectation. and because of that i was disappointed. but it worked because again we are learning about her along with her. (and actulaly I hope they don't backtrack and make it to where Kylo was lying...i have come to peace with it and now feel its the stronger choice)

    god Im sorry that was a bit of a long winded magical mystery tour there.
     
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  12. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    I honestly hadn't noticed that at all. That's a really interesting take.

    To me, it felt sort of like I was watching a TV show that ended a scene on a cliff hanger before going to commercial. "Ah, hurry up and get back to it!" I probably did miss some nuanced details while impatiently waiting.

    EDIT: Because the hamster keeps running on its wheel

    If that sequence was also meant to serve as further evidence toward their Force communion, then you’ve got my attention. The Rey and Kylo characters have been positioned as complimentary opposites in the narrative so far. They’re two figurative halves of the same whole. If that were literally true now, that because of Snoke’s meddling the two are actually joined in a way that makes each an effective extension of the other, that’s super interesting to me.

    These two can act as one. How does that then play out when they’re at odds with one another? How is that maybe a reflection of the Force itself and this "balance" we’ve heard so much about? Is this relationship essentially a metaphor: two opposing polarities, that could coexist harmoniously, being in conflict? Is that a part of the larger story being told? That has me excited to see what comes next.

    Thanks for that :)
     
    #52 eeprom, Feb 13, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
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  13. ReyErso5280

    ReyErso5280 Rebel General

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    Yes sir this is exactly how i took this scene and for me why it is also so heartbreaking. we (and them) get a wonderful glimpse of what they could achieve together and be unstoppable, but because of their conflict in themselves they aren't seeing the potential of what they both could be as one if they both just "let go"
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 13, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 13, 2018 ---
    so i may keep watching this fight on youtube right now (slaps wrist) yes i know its bad of me. but two things i noticed, one you caught in this GIF is Rey's little leg kick. makes me think of a kung fu move that is used to extend your body further when you cant reach a foe.

    what i also noticed is her moves are certainly less technical to Kylo'. There are parts she is literally just swinging the lightsaber back and forth. where Ben is paring and using the Guards weapons against them and using two at once.

    GOD I CANT WAIT UNTIL THE BLU-RAY!!!!
     
    #53 ReyErso5280, Feb 13, 2018
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  14. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Why didn't he used it? I don't get it. It should have worked against these guards. I also wanted Luke to use it during his finale scene. Instead of just standing there he should've force freezed all the laser bolts of the AT-Ats. It would have looked awesome, furthermore we would now know where Kylo Ren got this ability from.
     
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  15. PrincessLeiaCB3

    PrincessLeiaCB3 The Princess that was Promised
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    This has become easily my favourite fight scene of the SW saga.

    BWAHAHAHAHAHA I almost yelled and pointed to the screen: SHE GRABBED HIS TIGHT, SHE GRABBED HIS TIGHT!! but I didn't.

    Indeed!!!

    It was beautiful and poetic. Definitely.

    I noticed that too! They reached the other side of the Force while fighting.

    I am really looking forward to see this how this is developed.
     
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  16. M70ko

    M70ko Rebel Commander

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    That is what i try to keep in mind when I read comments about Kylo manipulating Rey... It all has been made to be seen through both perspectives I think.. But this scene its just them, actually complimenting each other... A scene that even some of us think as unnecessary ... I love what they can give us through these two... I hope with every cell of my body for this to become true..!
     
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  17. Lazlo

    Lazlo Rebel Official

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    Before you posted this, it hadn't occurred to me that Rey is now a legend just like Luke. It doesn't matter that it was Kylo Ren that killed Snoke, everyone in the Galaxy believes that she was the one that murdered him.
     
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  18. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Alt
    Ah yes. It probably was a Force Catch. Although it wasn't the best duel it was years ahead better then TFA.
     
  19. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Why would that be an important thing to know?
     
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  20. ReyErso5280

    ReyErso5280 Rebel General

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    I have considered that. Because again as the audience member we’ve seen Rey use the force and kylo and Luke have...that’s it. No one from the resistance knew, Finn never knew, Leia didn’t know. SO Rey’s “coming out” was the lifting rocks. And now she carries the heavy burden of being the hero and legend when maybe she doesn’t even want that or even knows what that entails. now she has the pressures and expectations against her...and I wonder in the next ep we see that take a toll. She certainly saw how it made Luke a broken man. This is why I don’t think she will start her own Jedi academy
     
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