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Ben Solo and the First Order

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by DarthSnow, Jul 30, 2018.

  1. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Brood Brother
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    After the events that transpired in The Last Jedi, Kylo Ren reigns supreme over the First Order. But, what if it was "Supreme Leader Ben Solo" instead?

    I know I know, it's the same person. But, does the galaxy know that?

    Much the way it was not common knowledge that Darth Vader was Anakin Skywalker, does the GFFA know that the leader of the First Order is actually the son of Han Solo and Leia Organa? While the circumstances are different in that Vader's true identity only had impact on the galaxy after his reign because of his children, Kylo Ren's true identity has impact now, because of his parents.

    The reason I'm getting into this now is because it seems to me that it would be strategic to use that to the First Order's advantage... "Look at us, we are led by Ben Solo - son of two galactic heroes - and we clearly want what is best for the galaxy and its people... you should all trust us!" Or you know, something like that.

    So I guess the big question is: do you think Kylo Ren's identity would matter to the general public of the GFFA?
     
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  2. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    The identity definitely matters and that's also something I really dislike about the ST. We just don't know the answer. In my headcanon Poe knows that Kylo Ren was once Ben Solo and they were even friends at some point. #WishfulThinking

    The general public probaby doesn't know Kylo Ren's true identity. It would be pretty bad for Leia's Resistance. Storywise it would be a nice callback to the Vader reveal of the novel Bloodline.
     
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  3. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    People complain that the scope of the ST is small, that there isn't enough politics, we don't see enough of everyday life, etc. but when we do get glimpses of that, like with Canto Bight, then the problem is that it's not deep enough, that someone saved animals instead of children and how cruel and insenstivie that was (if someone will point this out once again I will hit the ceiling.) The truth is - this the most we can get out of such stories if we don't want to sacrifice what ACTUALLY matters, which are characters and their development. Everything else is just window dressing.

    Would I like something like this to be explored in a SW film? Sure, why not. But I am also a weirdo who loves watching Extended Editions of Lord of the Rings for their obscene length and inclusion of plotlines like that one would bloat the runtime considerably. Would I be happy to watch a three-and-a-half-hour long SW film? Yup. I would. But not many people would as well. No other member of my family has been willing to sit with me throughout any of the LotR films despiite my heaping praises, even my sister, whose taste in film probably matches mine the most. A true SW epic would a tough sell to the general audience, to cinema owners and to the big-wigs at the top of Lucasfilm and Disney. Granted, people seem more lenient with respect to long runtimes, so maybe a true SW epic sis coming soon towards us. But, there is one more problem with this storyline I want to discuss and that problem is...

    Luke and Leia's legacy. If this becomes a part of Episode IX's storyline, then we'll turn them into Harvey Dents, i.e. false symbols of hope. Such a revelation would plunge their popularity ratings into the depths of the Sarlacc pit and telling a story that convinces the audience that the Skywalker twins did in the duration of TFA and TLJ is enough to repent for their sins is enough would require a damn fine storyteller. It would require a person who is able to convince all the people disappointed with Luke in TLJ that they are in fact wrong and, as we've seen, this hasn't happened and I'm positive Abrams is not a guy who'd be able to do such a thing. So, instead of focusing of people whose minds won't likely change anytime soon he should just move on and tell the rest of the story of Rey & co.

    PS. Ooo! If you crave more public perception of poolitical events in SW, watch A New Hope, especially its beginning.
     
    #3 Pawek_13, Jul 30, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
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  4. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    @DarthSnow: the reason i think he wouldn't exploit this is because his own perception is that his parents were actually traitors and terrorists to the "true" ruling class. i think for him to use the Solo/Organa name to now curry favor would be really Machiavellian in a way that he just hasn't demonstrated as of yet.

    so unless he really has totally lost his way and is no longer an idealist, but an opportunist who doesn't actually care about order in the galaxy, i can't see him doing anything but sticking to his own vision of ruling the galaxy out from under the shadow of any of his predecessors (which is what he was preaching to Rey).
     
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  5. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Brood Brother
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    I totally get all this, it makes a lot of sense. Except for when it doesn't. :D

    I keep getting hung up on the fact that if Ben truly wanted to ruin his family-of-heroes, he would certainly exploit his name, resulting in:
    I mean, yeah, at this point in the story it probably doesn't make as much sense. It should have been one of his first moves if he was going to do it. So instead, he takes a new name and essentially shields his family from any of the outcry that his future acts would cause. And instead of destroying the hope of a galaxy by revealing its heroes to be failures who couldn't even do right by their own son, he allows them to continue to be idolized.

    On the other hand, it could work to Ben's advantage (and in turn the Resistance's) if he somehow finds that path to redemption and is able to fully separate Ben Solo from Kylo Ren. If that happens, it gives hope to a galaxy who has just seen Han, Luke, and (presumably) Leia all perish. I mean, talk about despair. But wait! Who is this Ben Solo? Han and Leia's son, you say? I like him already! What, you heard that he killed Kylo Ren! Wow!

    I'm having a tough time organizing all of my thoughts here. Hopefully some of what I am trying to convey is coming through. But really, I think it is fascinating that someone in such a position of power can be so... anonymous. And how much impact a name could have on this entire story, if they chose to go that route. Maybe its more telling than anything else that the name is purely a formality... at least so far.
     
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  6. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    that makes sense post-redemption: absolutely!

    it also pretty much eliminates the problem of society accepting Ben Solo back into the fold (and leaves a dark secret for later exploitation by storywriters ~ hahaha).
     
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  7. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    “Sure, we blew up five whole planets because we ‘suspected’ they were up to no good, but we’re under new management now! This guy hasn’t murdered NEARLY as many people. Like, triple digits, tops.” What’s not to trust?
     
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  8. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Brood Brother
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    Hahaha, but seriously!! It would not be hard; if Kylo Ren becomes Ben Solo, and the First Order becomes Galactic Alliance or whatever, the people would buy it! You would have rebels putting their blasters back in their closets saying, "Eh, actually, this whole thing doesn't sound so bad anymore."

    Again, you have to think that Ben would be aware of this. And by assuming the name of Kylo Ren, he was providing himself with at least some semblance of an "exit strategy"... do you think that post-redemption Ben would still have the mentality of "Let the past die" ? i.e., if he is redeemed, would it go against his nature to then re-assume the name of Solo?

    Perhaps we'll come to find that the only reply this thread ever needed was:
    [​IMG]

    :D
     
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  9. FN-3263827

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    i honestly don't know if Ben Solo thinks that clearly or strategically. but it would definitely work! XD

    also, his mother saved this list of his very clearly delineated goals in her hope chest from when he was a child:

    Screen Shot 2018-08-01 at 1.23.00 PM.png
     
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  10. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Just from a public relations perspective, it would be pretty hard to walk back a 5x global annihilation. There is rebranding I guess. “No no no, you see, we’re the SECOND Order now. Totally different thing.” :D
     
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  11. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Brood Brother
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    I totally agree, but yeah rebranding happens all the time. I guess not on planetary destructive scales though...

    Quick story: There was a local construction company that was in with the gas and oil industry around here. They did some not so kosher things to the environment where it got to the point that they couldn't really even drive their company trucks around without getting into some sort of altercation with the local people. Then, they changed their company name. Suddenly, they no longer had issues with the public.
    :D
     
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