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SPECULATION Ben's Redemption

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by The Last Deadeye, May 2, 2017.

?

If Ben is redeemed how will it happen?

  1. Leia saves him by appealing to him

    3 vote(s)
    4.5%
  2. Reylo!

    14 vote(s)
    20.9%
  3. Luke or someone else tells him the truth about Anakin/Vader

    2 vote(s)
    3.0%
  4. He realizes Snoke is using him

    21 vote(s)
    31.3%
  5. Anakin's force ghost appears to him and shows him the light

    13 vote(s)
    19.4%
  6. Some other reason (please elaborate)

    14 vote(s)
    20.9%
  1. Rhyoth

    Rhyoth Clone Trooper

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    Luke sure was more rash and impulsive back then. Still, his actions were not that irresponsible, considering :
    _ the whole "Endor group" was in danger due to his presence : since Vader could easily locate him, Luke would lead him directly to his companions, compromising their mission.
    _ once Luke surrendered to Vader on Endor, he was only risking his own skin. The main stakes in the throne room were Anakin's soul and his own life. The fate of the rebelion would not have changed, as they were decided by the battle on Endor and the space battle.
    _ more importantly, trying to appeal to Vader's compassion and his sense of family was uncharted territory : no one had tried that for decades, especially not Vader's own flesh & blood. (from Luke's PoV, maybe no one at all).

    Just imagine for a second another dimension where Luke failed to reach to his father, and Vader coldly executed him instead. Would you really expect Leia to try to reach to Vader again after that ?
    That's where we're at with Ben right now ...

    Having a family member trying to reach to Kylo Ren was already tried. It failed, and costed the life of one of our most beloved hero. It's time to move on and stop throwing away lives for a lost cause.
    I could accept Ben somehow finding a way to walk back to the light on his own (but the writers would need to be very persuasive to sell me on that). But i certainly won't accept any more sacrifice made for the sake of that little brat.
     
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  2. Choose Light

    Choose Light Force Sensitive

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    Plus that extremely mobile scar... :p
     
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  3. Maximillian

    Maximillian Rebel General

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    'Wont accept' any more sacrifice...Like in some way you're moral outrage will have an effect on the franchise?

    to be honest, I think you're feeling what the writers of TFA wanted you to feel. Luke managed to redeem his father with his love, but even Han's love of Kylo Ren couldn't sway his son. So in film sequel terms that means: The stakes are higher in the sequel trilogy. Which is really common. We've been shown that as an audience it would be even harder to bring Ben Solo back to the light, than it was to bring Anakin Skywalker back. my immidiate response to that would be: But somehow the hero's will find a way! but it could just as easily be: No Kylo Rens not worth it, lets not bother.

    Personally if you're not into the human, familial, love aspect of Star Wars, I don't really know what you're in it for. because my interest in it is based very strongly on the characters, their relationships to each other and the central storyline of Vader-Luke. without a redemption arc for Kylo Ren, or at least a suggested one, I don't think there is a plot in the ST.

    if you remove the idea that Ben Solo, (who is the child of two of the OT characters, and Luke Skywalkers apprentice,) can be redeemed then what you have is a more boring version of the OT with Rey, Luke, Finn and so on having to take out the F.O, Kylo Ren and Snoke. It just becomes a big space brawl, but what made the OT better than that was the character dynamics and especially Luke/Vader redemption/temptation arc.

    So I think its necessary for there to be a glimmer of Redemption for Ben, or else this is like a marvel film in space, with good guys taking out villains and thats it.
     
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  4. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 Jedi General

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    this was made before the unmasked Black Series Kylo Ren was released, so they used a Han Solo sculpt. wonder if they updated it since.
    if anyone is wondering, it's modeled off of this fan art:

    Screen Shot 2017-05-19 at 9.15.55 AM.png
     
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  5. Maximus

    Maximus Rebel Official

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    it's all down to Snoke. who he is, what he is, what he's capable of and what he has done/is doing to Kylo Ren.

    Whilst i know within my heart that Ben Solo will 100% be redeemed... it won't happen until every single audience member is pulling for him - and we're a long long way off that currently.

    It's so difficult to guess at any of this stuff without knowing a scrap of info about Snoke... but i've guessed before that perhaps we'll see Snoke punishing Kylo.. like, the sort of uncomfortable to watch punishment you'd expect from a powerful dark sider. perhaps we'll see Snoke finish Kylo's training... which could potentially involve something quite nasty and sadistic as i doubt they meditate and move rocks about.

    The audience has to want him to survive and get away from Snoke, and with what Kylo has done already.. that is going to take some doing.
     
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  6. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 Jedi General

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    well a good portion of the audience is already there. it's convincing the other half, really, and it might be a shorter trip than one would expect.
    particularly if Luke or Leia show Ren Ben the compassion he needs and he breaks for them, i can't see the audience not getting on board with it.

    like you said, the important thing is to see him struggle and to want for him to win against the Dark side. i know there are people who are rooting for him to go even Darker or be the biggest baddest villain that ever was in the history of villainy, but the marshmallowy side is most likely going to win because this is Star Wars--not to mention--everyone involved in the film has already hinted or outright said that Light conquers Dark in this narrative. Ben's redemption is logically part of that.
     
    #146 FN-3263827, May 19, 2017
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
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  7. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Sensitive

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    I wouldn't limit the story Ben might be redeemed.

    He might end in exile a dark lord without a kingdom. Who might return in the future.

    He might come to his senses and regret his choices but go out with everyone but hom believing he can return to the light.

    He might die at the hand of his own schemes. As his futile and tempestuous nature leaves him making a decision that leaves him within the threat range of his own weapon. Hpoing to strike at his enemies but they escape.

    A return to the light is a strong option but not necessary.
     
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  8. Maximus

    Maximus Rebel Official

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    absolutely... anything is possible at this stage.

    My only issue with some of those alternatives.. is that when the curtain comes down at the end of ep 9, it will feel like a big fat tragedy if there isn't a Solo celebrating. It won't matter if Rey/Luke has won and Snoke/FO is gone or whatever... it would be an unhappy ending to the saga, for me anyway.

    The split second that he killed Han, i immediately had the opinion that Ben HAS to come back from that... it's the most important thing now.
     
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  9. Choose Light

    Choose Light Force Sensitive

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    What I find interesting is that the left fist that's so often clenched? Here it's clenched around a blaster. Nice detail. :)
     
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  10. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 Jedi General

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    a Han Solo-style blaster, of course!
    kind hard to see him running around with a blaster to be honest. but who knows; it might suit him! : D
     
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  11. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Sensitive

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    I understand @Maximus I guess I see Rey as Luke's student and the heir to the legacy even if her name is wrong.

    She's weilding excalisabre.
    She's the Jedi (or light side force user)

    I think a return to a nobody saves the galaxy feels important. Sure Luke was nobody once till we learned he was sombody. Then Anakin looked like nobody but was created from th ed force.

    Now everything could hit the fan. Rey fall to the darkside, Kylo killed or possed by the parisitic alien that resides in the decaying corpse we call Snoke. And Luke has to storm the new star destroyer with Maz, Chewie & Finn.
     
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  12. Maximus

    Maximus Rebel Official

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    i don't feel that differently to you. It certainly does look at the moment that Rey is the hero and will defeat King Vortigern... oops wrong movie, that's your fault for the excalibre comment :p

    to add to the mix... i had/have huge hopes for Finn to be the main hero by the end of the trilogy.

    i know... i want too much.
     
  13. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Rebel Official

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    Sure but why does it have to happen in 9?

    In theory, Anakin took 6 episodes to be redeemed.

    Why shouldn't Ben have that sort of progression as well?

    Let him stay evil. Let's hate him the way we all hated Vader.

    I have thought for awhile this would more mimic the PT from a story structure point while being more visually appealing to the OT.
     
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  14. Maximus

    Maximus Rebel Official

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    omg... you want me to watch him tormented for 6 movies? lol

    at the end of ANH i hated Vader. at the end of ESB i hated Luke's father.. i had dropped the name 'Vader' in my own head, but i hated him more because he was Luke's dad. The split second Luke said 'There is still good in him', i believed him and i wanted him to save his father.

    that changed my whole conception of the dark side of the force. anyone can come back from it..anyone. that's what i got from episodes 1-6... anyone can fall, but they can come back.

    'Let him stay evil' ? i just don't see him that way.. the LST kill was pretty brutal granted lol, but i don't get that vicious bad guy vibe that clearly others do.



    He will never be as strong as Darth Vader*


    *in my humble opinion, but i'm not really sure
     
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  15. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Rebel Official

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    Yes. I want everyone to suffer. Feel the dark side. Let it consume you. (emperor)

    He may never be as *iconic* as Vader, but if you let him stay evil, you can make him as feared and as revered as Vader.

    I'm just talking from a story/film perspective.

    In the last 25 years, who are the best NEW villains to emerge compared to what came out of the 70s and 80s?
    There aren't too many.

    Kylo could be a new villain for a new generation. Why not shoot for the moon?
     
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  16. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Sensitive

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    He may not be more iconic but Vader wanted order.

    Kylo strikes me as much more unstable. He could be more destructive.
     
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  17. Choose Light

    Choose Light Force Sensitive

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    In April, Kathleen Kennedy said this: "Inside Star Wars are values that mean something to people. It's aspirational. It's full of hope. These are oddly values that we don't see in a lot of tentpole movies anymore. I don't know why there tends to be a more dystopian, apocalyptic view of the world. The great thing is, that's not what Star Wars is, and that's why it appeals to people."

    In my view, this is a primary reason why Ben Solo, the beloved son of Han Solo and Princess/General Leia and the last Skywalker,* is not going to be an ubervillain who stays mired in the dark. The hope is for his redemption and the restoration of the Skywalkers--Luke included--because of the actions of the hero, Rey.


    star-wars-the-last-jedi-poster.jpg


    There's still light2.jpg
    Luke and Padme weren't wrong, and neither is Leia.


    * Known Skywalker. Everyone stay calm.
     
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  18. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Rebel Official

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  19. AfroJedi69

    AfroJedi69 Rebel Official

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    THE GUY KNOWINGLY MURDERED HIS OWN FATHER! HE HAS NO REDEMPTION COMING TO HIM!:mad:
     
  20. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Sensitive

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    Unless he turns it around. Any can.

    Let go of the red faced rage give forgiveness a shot.

    I better save this . . . Wouldn't be the first time a SW discussion sparked a sermon.:p
     
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