SPECULATION Ben's Redemption

It's okay--no fathers were actually murdered in the making of The Force Awakens, I promise.

 

Or the last I bet!

I'd guess most people are happy defining redemption along the lines as "that one transformative act that pulls the soul up from a state of moral degeneracy". After this the fan opinions vary wildly.

The pro-strong-villain camp are likely to debate the "fairness" of such a transformation, highlight any consequent trust difficulties, and argue the lack of an ideal antagonist. Meanwhile the theologians, psychologists, and armchair philosophers can debate whether the transformation came from "within" or "without" (or both)!

 

http://www.starwars.com/databank/kylo-ren

Official databank updated in February 2017 with these new lines:

"Kylo swore his loyalties were only to Snoke. But he was intrigued when he captured Rey, a Jakku scavenger whose Force abilities were raw but very powerful. A mysterious connection seemed to link the two."

"He sensed his destiny and Rey's were somehow intertwined, but how?"

"But this shocking act of patricide didn’t make the former Ben Solo feel stronger – somehow he felt weaker. Kylo Ren had hoped to end the conflicts that caused him so such pain, but found he remained at war with himself, more lost than ever."

Screenshot used by the official site to show the relation/mysterious connection between Kylo and Rey:


From the canon novelization:


From Episode 2:


cough redemption arc for Kylo because of his sentiments for Rey cough

cough Kylo will become loyal to Rey and no more to Snoke cough

 

Wow, there's so much in that article that hints at things I didn't realsie about Kylo Ren/Ben Solo.

Like the fact he thinks fullfilling the legacy of vader means destroying the Jedi. and seemingly thats it, I thought he wanted to rule the galaxy like vader did. but it seems to say he's only interested in eleminating Jedi. That would make sense though as all he does through TFA is try to get back to Skywalker, to kill him no doubt.

But thats even more interesting in regards to 'the Jedi must end' does that mean Luke intends to let Kylo Ren kill him Obi Wan style just to prove to Kylo Ren that killing all the jedi wont bring balance to the force?

hmmmmmm

Editied coz I just read a bunch more from his file on that site, and it confirms that he's made it his goal to wipe out all the jedi in the galaxy. So that begs the question: Why? just because Vader almost did it? or is it because he knows something about the Jedi that Snoke told him, something Luke's looking for the answer to?

Also mentioned many times on the site are Kylo Ren & Rey's mysterious connection which sounds like more than just a romantic one. I'm gonna bet on a Yin/Yang co-dependancy set up of some kind, based on their outfits and general parralles.

 

I think he will be redeemed. Kylo Ren will be figuratively killed to bring back Ben Solo. And I think it will be because he will see the truth, that he can accomplish so much more without being a puppet to Snoke and the First Order.

One of the main reasons I think this is because of what George Lucas has said in the past about the meaning of Star Wars.

• "Friendships, honesty, trust and doing the right thing, living on the light side, avoiding the dark side. Those are things that it was meant to do."

• [On religions] "Everybody expresses it differently but it's still 'basically don't kill people and be compassionate and love people.' And, so that's basically all Star Wars is.

I don't think having killed Han Solo automatically disqualifies him from redemption. We want to think this because we have come to love Han as a character. But more than out own self-interests, Han was Ben's father, and he feels so much more conflicted than we like to give him credit for. Han died touching his son's face, believing he still had light in him. I think not redeeming Ben will actually go against Han's memory and his ultimate decision to save his son.

 

The Death of that star and subsequent darkness created a disturbance and imbalance in the force, pushing Kylo Ren over the line to the Dark Side, upon which he killed his father Han Solo. Prior to the death of the star, Kylo Ren was teetering between light and dark. Kylo Ren was able to achieve for the Dark Side (and for Snoke) what his uncle Luke could not do in killing his father. Kylo moved deeply into the dark, just as Luke would have had he killed Darth Vader.

Neither Luke nor Anakin actively sought to join the dark side, rather they were both tempted, one fell and one did not. Kylo Ren on the other hand seems to be a balanced person who is actively pursuing the Dark Side of the force. He is trying to shed his light side. Kylo is TRYING to be dark, not just being tempted. If anything the movie portrays the light side tempting Kylo Ren toward the light rather than the dark tempting Kylo toward the dark.

It is an odd thing really as compared to Anakin and Lukes paths, Kylo Ren is not being tempted to join the dark, he is actively pursing it, personally wanting to be dark.

 

Just tossing this out.

Right before the scene on the bridge. Poe told the other pilots, "When the sun goes the weapon is charged, so as long as there is light we stand a chance." One of my favorite lines. Then on the bridge the sun fades the blue light hitting Kylo is gone and he kills Han.

Was that s signal that his redemption is impossible because the light is gone?

Or that as long as Rey or Leia or Luke have the light of hope Ben can come back.

 

Ultimately there appear to be two main protagonists being developed within this new story arc, Rey and Kylo Ren/Ben Solo. Just like Luke, Rey is the personification of hope. Just like Vader, Kylo Ren/Ben Solo is not the ultimate big bad guy, rather a tool of the ultimate big bad guy, with links to the "good guys".

What ever happens, the story appears to be about them.

It's a Hollywood movie, so Kylo Ren isn't going to win by killing Rey. Therefore logic dictates that either Rey kills Kylo Ren (which would negate a lot of the back story and ideas of 'conflict') or Rey saves Ben Solo.

The nuclear option is that nothing is resolved. There is a franchise to keep going after all.......

 

I don't think resolution is a necessity in this trilogy.
In the PT there was very little resolution. Only from what we knew of the OT.

This is the "PT" of the new characters IMO.
We will get another trilogy closing their stories.

 

Even if he gets redeemed Kylo which he might not. He is an antagonist for now.

He is Vader's legacy in a reverse mirror of Luke. So unless they subvert the initial direction they have laid out. He is being set up to refuse the light and declare himself a dark sider like his grandfather before him.

 

There are already two protagonists. Don't need a third.

 

The light did go out, and Kylo Ren murdered Han. And then...that light burst forth into a brand-new star...

 

I don't know if anyone ever brought this up in here but do you guys remember the interview with Adam Driver and Larry King?
When Larry King asked Adam Driver if Kylo Ren lives through TLJ, Driver responded with “it depends on your definition of living”.

IMO that's a big clue for Ren's redemption and this is why:
Joseph Campbell states in The Power of Myth, the hero has to die in order to be reborn. Kylo Ren (who sees himself as the hero) will die in TLJ and Ben Solo (the true hero) will be reborn.

This is the art of story telling.

 

Or if you look at it as isolation and devoid of friends and family...is that any way to live?

 

Or he continues his hate filled anger romp to face the heroes once more. TLJ is Act 2 of the ST still a long way to go.

 

I still like the 'jersey switch' idea I had a year ago, but if there is no rule of two issue which all indications say then Snoke would have no reason to expell Ren.

 

Even good Sith don't follow the rule of 2.

Maul was being groomed as an asset while DP was still alive. Dooku was being turned against the Jedi and Syfo Dias was ordering clones from the Kamino.

After the advent of ABSOLUTE POW'A Sidious took on Vader, started the Inquisitors, had a side project of AI/alien force users in the Cylo project.

So rule of two is practiced only from a certain point of view.

Also the 1st Order strikes me as a neo- Imperial cult, the have a Supreme leader, indoctrinated soldiers, a religous not political overtone. This makes changes in ideology very possible. In the old EU comics Darth Kryat declared himself "The One Sith" and gathered a whole cadre of Dark Lords loyal to him. This gives me visions of Kylo yelling at Snokes corpse "I AM THE SITH." After Snoke outlived his usefulness as master and prodded his ego in a volitile place.

 

In Canon Plagueis is already dead when Palpatine starts training Maul.

 

Yeah I don't think the whole galaxy would ever forgive Ben Solo, same as they never would have forgiven Anakin, but I don't think thats what anyone is asking for with Ben's redemption, I think its just so he can go back to his mother, and luke and so on and earn their forgiveness and start to make amends. if he did manage to achieve redemption in their eyes, his own and the audiences then I don't think the rest of the galaxy would matter. if he went to live in an uninhabited planet and started training jedi, or practicing the light side of the force then I think that would be a fine outcome for a 'redemption' ark. I can't see him ever being re-intergrated with the majority of the resistance but maybe with Luke & Rey in a jedi order.