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Biggest Misconceptions About Star Wars

Discussion in 'General Movie Discussion' started by LadyMusashi, Sep 10, 2021.

  1. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    The title say it all.

    What are some of the biggest and most persistent misconceptions about the world of Star Wars?

    I'll start.

    The belief that the Jedi are celibate and/or can't love is one of the most persistent misconceptions about the Jedi, even among the fans.

    In an interview to BBC in 2002, the Creator himself said:

    "Jedi Knights aren't celibate - the thing that is forbidden is attachments - and possessive relationships."

    During the story meeting for The Clone Wars, he said:

    “You’re (Jedi are) allowed to love people, but you’re not allowed to possess them.”

    I am always bemused that anyone would believe this when Obi-Wan exists. ;)

    So, hit me with others!
     
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  2. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    This is a great post and has me thinking….

    ….not coming up with anything (yet)…..

    maybe the misconception that Chewie is some mean monster??
     
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  3. Embo and His Pet Anooba

    Embo and His Pet Anooba Force Attuned

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    zygerrians suck. in actuality...
    no they all suck


    hmmm....
    no i am your father
     
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  4. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    That Star Wars (particularly the ST/PT/OT/whatever the person is deciding to hate on) is bad because its science is inaccurate. Star Wars is a fantasy/fairytale that takes place in space with space stuff instead of normal fantasy stuff - there are laser swords, magic powers, and SOUND IN SPACE. The science only matters when the story wants it to matter. Anyone who says otherwise isn't worth engaging with.
     
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  5. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    @Use the Falchion Yes, that is a good one!!!!
     
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  6. Anubis78

    Anubis78 Mad we are all mad here.... Now time for tea
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    The idea the Jedi are the good guys. Are they? we are just hearing the story from their.
     
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  7. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    Tell me that you are not serious? Please?

    Because if you are, that's another common misconception, usually born out of misguided sympathy for Anakin (I'm not saying that's the case here, just usually it is), that Jedi are somehow bad guys and oppressed the poor boy. Poor boy was given every tool and opportunity to make the right choices, but instead participated in a genocide, destroying the entire culture and ushering a totalitarian regime led by a Sith and Jedi are somehow bad guys?

    Please, again, tell me that you are not serious.
     
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  8. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Probably stemming from the innate contradictory nature of it. How can someone genuinely love another and not be “attached” to them in some form or another?

    That’s what I interpret as the major flaw of the prequel era Jedi. They were so fearful of negative attachment that they demonized all attachment. And, in so doing, distanced themselves from the people they’d sworn to protect. Their calling compelled them to be compassionate and empathetic, but that deliberate distancing from attachment inherently negated that empathy and created a discipline that was unsustainable.

    In the end though, the Jedi are redeemed through the love of a son for his father and that of a father for his son: attachment. It can be a weakness that corrupts, but it can also be an immense virtue that saves. Only a Sith deals in absolutes after all ;)

    Anyway, to the thread topic - I’d say one of the bigger misconceptions I’ve seen is that the original 1977 film is viewed as apolitical. That it was just a ‘feel-good movie’ meant to distract everyone from the social upheavals of the 70s instead being an intentional allegorical commentary on them. Star Wars was always political. That didn’t just happen. It was baked in from the start.
     
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  9. Anubis78

    Anubis78 Mad we are all mad here.... Now time for tea
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    Well now i have to keep you guessing. :p
     
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  10. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    Oh, touché. Well done.

    hat off.gif
     
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  11. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Official

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    But people mainly watch the films and in the films what Anakin and Padme do is explicitly said to be proscribed by his vocation and has to be kept secret.

    There's also a story meeting where George explains that a Jedi must be selfless and that seeking the affections of any one person for oneself is the path to selfish desires, and to wanting to possess the object of those desires and then to fear of losing those desires, and then to hatred, and then to suffering. And so on.

    When the main character is compromised by having to keep relationship a secret, then it's hard to fault people from inferring that Anakin and all Jedi are expected to be celibate.

    It's not so much a misconception as a case a lot of fans who didn't tune in to Clone Wars to see that the position explicated in Attack Of The Clones and Revenge Of The Sith had been amended by George. If that's what it does.
     
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  12. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Especially considering this early exchange:
    ___________________________
    ANAKIN: I'd much rather dream about Padmé. Just being around her again is...intoxicating.

    OBI-WAN: Be mindful of your thoughts, Anakin. They betray you. You've made a commitment to the Jedi order, a commitment not easily broken.
    ___________________________

    I’m not sure what George was exactly intending to convey there, but it certainly gives the impression that a young man having sexy thoughts about a young woman is, at least in some way, frowned on by the Jedi. It certainly has that priestly flavor of ‘vow of celibacy’. Doesn’t it?
     
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  13. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    It definitely reads that way, and I'm not one to disagree on that. However, I can see it being that Anakin is being possessive in his dreaming of and thinking of Padme, to the point where he wants her, and only her, all the time. He wants to commit to being hers alone. Obi-Wan's words are then saying "you're already promised to the Jedi Order, so slow your roll." It's not Obi-Wan saying that Anakin can't dream about Padme, simply that how his possessiveness towards her is overriding everything else. I think that flows well with what George did with Padme and Anakin's relationship throughout the PT and TCW. Later on in AOTC we have the exchange below:

    Anakin: Put the ship down!

    Obi-Wan: Anakin, don't let your personal feelings get in the way. Follow that speeder.

    Anakin: Lower the ship!

    Obi-Wan: I can't take Dooku alone. I need you. If we catch him, we can end this war right now. We have a job to do!

    Anakin: I don't care! Put the ship down.

    Obi-Wan: You will be expelled from the Jedi Order!

    Anakin: I can't leave her!

    Obi-Wan: Come to your senses! What do you think Padme would do if she were in your position?

    Anakin: ...she would do her duty.


    Obi-Wan didn't necessarily dissuade Anakin and Padme's relationship, and TCW* (and specific lines even as far back as AOTC) made it seem like Kenobi knew exactly what was going on - indeed, the lines you quoted make it clear that Obi-Wan knows Anakin's intentions. But Obi-Wan is pushing back against Anakin's desire to fully devote himself to her, and I think that's the crux of the attachment issue. It's sort of like being married to a Superhero - you have to know that at the end of the day, if it comes down to remembering your anniversary or showing up at a work event, or saving the world, the world comes first. The Jedi knew this, and while they couldn't put an entire ban on attachments as that leads to apathy, they could heavily discourage it. Anakin wasn't at the point where he could do that, and everyone suffered.


    (As a side note, I love how arrogant Obi-Wan is in AOTC. It's hilarious.)

    *TCW I think heavily negates the idea of Jedi being as heartless 100% of the time as people think. They show fear, sorrow, joy, loyalty, admiration, and love. But they also try not to let those get in the way of their duties as Jedi. That is where Anakin failed. That being said, it's abundantly clear that the Jedi failed Anakin as well. Their dogmatic nature, distrusting of Anakin on principle, and permitting Obi-Wan to teach Anakin ultimately put The Chosen One in a situation where he was all but doomed to fail.
     
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  14. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Well, certainly obsessive. The kid starts out with "I've thought about her every day since we parted". It was ten years. That’s . . . uh . . . that’s a lot of days. Space wizard or no, it’s pretty unhealthy to be that fixated on someone you barely know.

    So, I agree, that’s probably where George’s head was at, but it doesn’t totally read that way. It sounds like Obi-Wan is saying that the only way for Anakin to act on his feelings would be if he left the order and that’s (for some reason) easier said than done. A sentiment that’s reinforced later when Padmé says “I will not let you give up your future for me.”

    So, no, not explicitly a ‘ban’ on intimate relationships, but the characters sure seem to be treating it that way. So, yeah, makes sense the audience would too.
    I can’t imagine it helped that it came as an ultimatum either. “I will train Anakin...Without the approval of the council, if I must.” The council was extorted into accepting Anakin. That had to have resulted in some shred of resentment in the crotchety old farts, I reckon.
     
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  15. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    The biggest thing many Star Wars fans get wrong is what the Jedi code is all about.... The biggest sin the Jedi made in the clone wars isn't allowing Anakin's secret relationship(which likely would have been forbidden in any era). It was the militarized use of the Jedi in the war. The Jedi Order's purpose wasn't to be a military force. They're supposed to be selfless and wise. Fighting and killing should be the last option. The best example of this would be how Gandalf was used in the Lord or the Rings.
     
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  16. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    Well, it's not exactly that they had other option after they tied their fate with the Republic and Senate as their oversight body. They had to follow the law of the Republic and the ambiguity and conflict with their own principles as well as influence of the dark side slowly ripped them apart. The other option was to leave the Republic and let it be destroyed in the civil war and have pretty much the same result => Palpatine's rule. Though if they did leave they would have still been branded as traitors. But maybe more of them would have survived, if they left the clones behind.

    In a perfect world where I AM the Creator (IT'S A JOKE), the Jedi are never part of any political or centralized power. The is no THE Jedi temple, but many Jedi temples through the galaxy (so the ideas aren't centralized either) and the Jedi are wandering warrior/monks/ronin. They are peacemakers and negotiators, but they will also defend the weak. Yes, that would make their relations with the Republic more complicated but they would be free to answer many smaller, 'unimportant' injustices (deemed so by the corrupt Senate) in the galaxy. Maybe the individual planets would not be so dissatisfied and the Separatists wouldn't have that much support. But, that's in the perfect world... :p
     
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  17. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Crazy Old Wizard
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    IMHO, everyone isn't suited to live the Jedi life or walk the path of the Jedi, so that is why we have fallen Jedi. As a fan who admire Jedi, Obi-Wan is my favorite. He cares deeply for Satine Kryze; however, he remains a close friend and confidant. He has mentioned, he would have left the Jedi Order to be with her, unlike Anakin, who remained a Jedi keeping his relationship with Padme an awful and burdensome secret.

    n fact, though Obi-Wan never engaged in an official romantic relationship, as far as we know, The Clone Wars animated series revealed that Obi-Wan cared very deeply about Satine Kryze, the Duchess of Mandalore. ... Satine had just become Duchess, and the two of them, along with Qui-Gon, spent a year on the run.

    At some point, during the Clone Wars, Obi-Wan came to secretly suspect that Padmé and Anakin were having an affair. He was only partly correct, as it was unknown to him that the two of them were in fact married. He never revealed his suspicions to the Jedi council, proving just how loyal he truly was to Padmé.

    In the High Republic novels there is a Jedi who cares deeply for another Jedi. I am very curious to see what route he will take with his feelings for her...
     
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  18. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    I’m not sure if being the guardians of peace and justice necessarily demanded they LEAD the war though. I feel what’s discounted quite a bit is the reality of who the specific opposition was. The de facto leader of the opposing force was a former Jedi who had undeniably embraced their antithetical philosophy.

    So, for the Jedi, this wasn’t merely a politically embroiled conflict. It was a personal one, a spiritual one. The enemy of the Republic was being led by a follower of the dark side. The consequence, if he won, was much more than secession. I think that’s a bigger motivator for their active involvement than anything else.
    To be accurate, Obi-Wan discloses he would have left the order had Satine asked. To the show's credit, it's aware what a s**tty passive-aggressive move that is. Anakin might have left too had Padmé asked. But she wouldn’t ever do that, just like Satine would never have asked that of Obi-Wan.
     
    #18 eeprom, Sep 13, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
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  19. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Crazy Old Wizard
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    IMHO, I believe Padme, had asked Anakin to leave all this behind, but Anakin was too far gone to see it her way... it was too late for Anakin and his secret forbidden love... and of course, Satine would have to have asked OB1, because Obi-Wan is such a good Jedi. He would not leave the Jedi Order for such things, and of course, this is how I interpret it, it doesn't have be acceptable to others with conflicting interpretations.

    Also, I, Jedi a Legends novel has a Jedi who is married so there are many types of Jedi... grey Jedi etc.
     
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  20. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    I'm a firm believer of the idea that Satine and Obi-Wan did have an explicit romantic relationship, official or not. It's just that TCW wasn't going to say either way about how deep the two fell, it being more in-line with a kid's show at the time the concept was introduced.* But when it came time to end it, Satine did so, for both of their sakes.

    There's still hope in a post-TROS world we may see that! A small, minute, sliver of hope...


    Ha! Story of the entire PT experience, summed up in one sentence.

    Isn't it? Isn't it easier to devote yourself to one thing than to split your attention with two, unless you've got a clear head of what those two things are and how to split them efficiently without crossing any boundaries? Isn't it easier to be a full-time student or a full-time worker, instead of doing both full-time? Obi-Wan knows what Anakin wants, but it's clear to the older Jedi (and Padme, but she's more willing to try than others) that Anakin can't have both without compromising the integrity of the other in those moments.
    The impending birth of Luke & Leia and the tragedy of the Jedi is almost a direct result of Anakin's inability to give up one for the other. Anakin can't be a good father or a father at all if he wants to be an esteemed Jedi with the respect of his peers, which AOTC and ROTS make it abundantly clear he does. Anakin can't be a good husband if he lets his wife die, but he can't be a good Jedi if he sacrifices everything to let her live. So after listening to their advice once led to the death of his mother and when the Jedi start betraying their own ideals, and the Sith offer a way, he takes it.



    *Well, that and the fact that Filoni really skirts around the idea of any characters sleeping together. I'm still peeved that apparently Hera and Kanan didn't hook up until Season 4 of Rebels (or at least romantically hook up) when it felt like many fans like myself and my friends simply assumed they were already sleeping together.
     
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