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Biggest Misconceptions About Star Wars

Discussion in 'General Movie Discussion' started by LadyMusashi, Sep 10, 2021.

  1. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Official

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    The story of Anakin's betrayal of the Jedi is reliant on the Jedi requiring celibacy. No matter what they said later on in the Clone Wars because it opened up story option that were otherwise closed.

    The plot of the prequels revolves around it.
     
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  2. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    Many people think this way, but this is very much the Anakin point-of-view. It's clear his attachments were a problem. Anakin kills an entire village because of his attachment to his mother. This is why attachments were forbidden by the Jedi. Anakin could have simply left the Jedi Order to be with Padme. Why didn't he? Because he liked the power and prestige of being a Jedi. Almost all of Anakin's problems were rooted in selfish desire. Desire to be loved, desire to be powerful, and desire to control.

    If the Jedi would have approved Anakin's relationship with Padme it wouldn't have changed where Anakin was headed.
     
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  3. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Crazy Old Wizard
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    I forgot the Jedi's name, but there is a male Jedi who was the last male of his species, and his duty was to impregnate females of his species in order to further his species survival. With a duty of this kind, attachments would be the least of his problems... hehe
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 14, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 14, 2021 ---
    THIS:

     
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  4. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    IIRC: the Noveliztion covered this inside a Kenobi quote about Anakin being more loyal to people, than codes.

    Heh. The deleted scenes show how petty he'd become, controlling even. I think Lucas painted himself into a bit of a tight corner with the final merge of Father Skywalker/ Anakin/ Darth Vader.... the novel makes more sense than the movie and neither were as good as the First Draft; having Anakin BETRAY them all was far more compelling to me than "el dupo muhst be evul 2 save u from dying", but I digress.

    OG turn.jpg

    Cereans. Master Mundi was allowed to do the Humpty Dance.
     
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  5. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Crazy Old Wizard
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    https://images.app.goo.gl/tb5Y9LQUYF6odNpr8



    Attachment is forbidden. Possession is forbidden. Compassion, which I would define as unconditional love, is essential to a Jedi’s life. So you might say, that we are encouraged to love,” Anakin Skywalker tells Padmé Amidala in one of his many excruciatingly clumsy forays into foreplay in Star Wars: Episode II -
     
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  6. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    One big misconception about Star Wars that even some creators (particularly in Legends) have is that the Jedi are warriors, and that their worth is based in martial training and "leveling up" their powers.

    Another is that the pre-Disney trilogies stuck to a strict storyboard treatment that was established before production. The original trilogy, perhaps above all, went through so many rewrites even right before ROTJ.

    Finally (for now), stormtroopers aren't jokes. It's a shame, because the movies kinda had to feature enemies that were imposing but also ultimately didn't fulfill their goals. But now we have Ezra and the gang watching stormtroopers reenact vaudevillian physical humor as they trip over each other, while the stormtroopers in Fallen Order comprise the easiest enemies in the game (vastly overshadowed by a kinda big frog). I feel like the movies maybe should've set the tone of stormtroopers being much scarier, while using Imperial Army troopers as the cannon fodder... but then again, featuring them so heavily did make them iconic, so maybe they made the right choice after all.
     
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  7. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Official

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    I don’t think he remained a Jedi for selfish reasons. Leaving the order to have a normal life is never discussed with Anakin. Even though Obi-Wan can see what’s going on, he just expects Anakin to get over it. There’s definitely a sense that leaving the order would be letting a lot of people down. Including Qui-Gon. Even the Chancellor.

    Ultimately, keeping a secret proved to be somewhat of a selfish act because it compromised him, and the Jedi, with Palpatine who reveals that he knows he has disobeyed the code. (But that’s all kind of bundled up in the other motivations like Anakin’s sudden belief that Obi Wan wants to take Padme away from him, and the fixation on special powers to prevent Padme’s death, aaaand being convinced that the only answer that the Jedi will give to Anakin’s role in Windu’s death is to kill him and all the senate. Based purely on being upset that the council asked him to spy on Palpatine, which lead to him discovering that the Jedi’s suspicions were right. And that they didn’t make him a Master even though he was already guilt ridden at secretly betraying the code and surely had doubts about his own fitness)
     
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  8. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Crazy Old Wizard
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    For some strange reason, this reminds me of why I signed up for the special forces when I was in the military. Some of the common soldiers/grunts joined for the wrong reasons, I just want to see the world... I need 3 good meals a day and a place to sleep... Would I entrust some of these grunts to have my back? What about friendly fire? hey dude, I'm on your side... Anyway, the Death troopers were more of an elite band of soldiers, specialized stormtroopers with distinctive black armor... Still, I believe their stormtrooper's depictions in Rogue One and the Mandalorian were a bit better... it's a shame I agree, they should not be depicted as jokes but more imposing.

    Anakin is a great character, ( I understand why some would sympathize with his dilemma ) in other circumstance his relationship with Padme could have been accepted.

    For example: n I, Jedi, written by Michael A. Stockpole RIP, Corran Horn must develop his Jedi powers in order to save the life of his wife, Mirax Terrik. One of my favorite Legends novels, a Jedi is married and does what has to to save his wife. Corran turns to Luke Skywalker, the only remaining Jedi Master at the time, for help. This coincides nicely with the master's timing, as he is seeking students for his new Jedi Academy on Yavin 4. Corran knows that he is Force-sensitive, and that only with the Force as his ally can he track down his enemy.

    But in this era (the PT), the Jedi believed attachments would cause conflict. Anakin loved Padme, and should have withdrew from the Order as Ahsoka did. Ahsoka continued the fight against the Empire but could not not see herself as part of the Jedi Order. She felt betrayed. If Anakin believed in the Order why did he defy one of their most sacred rules? Why did he stay? He remained in the order and continued his betrayal.

    All Anakin knew was being a Jedi. He knew nothing else, beside being a slave. I think he should have found a life with out dogmatic restraints, seeking freedom to live his life as he saw fit.

    Luke also loved his father, and saw good in him, he wouldn't fight his father even though others believed otherwise. Yoda would have been against this decision. Yoda had someone else in mind if Luke failed.
     
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  9. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Official

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    Because he felt that turning his back on them and the Republic when they were fighting a war would be letting them down.

    Because he was a key figure in many of the Republic's victories, including rescuing the Chancellor and defeating Darth Tyranus.

    Because he was confused about Jedi dogma to love everyone and no one.

    Because he thought he could handle it.

    Because he was "the chosen one".
     
    #29 Martoto, Sep 15, 2021
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  10. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    Oh, they were sleeping together, 100%. The way that arc was written in The Clone Wars showed quite a lot of passion/sexual attraction on both sides. They were both younger when they've met as well, so there must have been some fireworks there.

    But, in the end, they were both part of something bigger than themselves. Satine didn't ask, so Obi-Wan didn't stay. But, it's important that he says to her that he would have left the Jedi Order had she asked. He didn't say: I would have had a secret relationship with you while I go about my Jedi duties if you asked. That's the key difference between Anakin and Obi-Wan. Anakin wants it all, to be a Jedi and to have a family. In the end, he betrayed both.

    There is a lot you can sympathize with when it comes to Anakin. But, in the end, it weren't the Jedi, it wasn't even Sheev who pushed him to the dark side. It was his inability to let go, his possessives and selfishness.

    I many ways, Obi-Wan is a model Jedi in my eyes. He is not rigid, but he is loyal to a fault. He believed in Anakin to the very end (well, end of Republic era at least, Darth Vader was Luke's task). He is warm and selfless, but also knows when to bend the rules. Wicked sense of humor and perfect wielding of sarcasm help too. :D
     
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  11. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    Anakin systematically killed an entire village. This isn't nuanced. That is an unspeakable act of evil. People pay too much attention to the relationship with Padme and not enough attention to the slaughter on Tatooine. Anakin does these things for himself.
    As Luke says, "It was a Jedi Master who was responsible for the training and creation of Darth Vader." He also mentions 'hypocrisy" and "hubris." Hypocrisy that they became an arm of the military and hubris than they thought they could train Anakin even though Yoda knew the child was too old to be trained.
     
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  12. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Official

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    We were talking about the conflict caused by his relationship with Padme in the context of it being forbidden by the Jedi code. We were discussing it because it's supposedly a misconception that Jedi were supposed to be celibate.

    Anakin taking revenge for his mother's kidnap, torture and death is entirely separate. It was terrible but that's not what we were talking about.

    How do you know it was systematic? It happens off screen. And Anakin doesn't go into detail of how it was done for Padme?

    Anakin slaughtering the sand people gives us a foreshadowing of what he's capable of when his friends and family are horribly murdered. But it does not provide him with motive for betraying the Jedi as he does later. There's virtually no connection between that massacre and anything that comes later. Even the Jedi temple massacre was strategic. Not an act of revenge against the Jedi.
     
    #32 Martoto, Sep 15, 2021
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  13. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    this 3.png

    He slaughtered a village over being unable to save his mother & destroyed the Jedi for preventing him from doing the same for his wife.

    Jedi Rave Sticks.gif
    Consistent, his character arc was.​
     
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  14. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    I fully agree with your post up to this point. I believe we’re supposed to factor his fear of their reaction into the equation. He had tendencies, that were natural to him, that were forbidden, that he had to hide and be made to feel guilty over. That breeds resentment. If the Jedi had instilled greater trust and understanding from the start, I feel that would have made a significant difference. The Jedi aren’t to blame for his downfall. That’s on him. But they were certainly accountable by not creating a safe environment where he could honestly express his feelings.
    That’s debatable. It’s not explicitly in the text, but the premise is that Anakin had been experiencing visions of his mother’s peril for a while. If he hadn’t been so mindful of the Jedi’s negative perspective on that relationship, then he might have acted sooner. He might have saved her. That HAD to be in his mind somewhere, right? That, if not for the Jedi’s morally superior code, his mom would still be alive? From a twisted mindset, he could easily rationalize them as being culpable in her death. That’s some sound motivation for betrayal. Just sayin’.
     
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  15. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    How much more detail do you need?
    My broader point is that people blame the Jedi code for Anakin's inherent problems. The problem with training Anakin was that he was trained by his brother (Obi-Wan) instead of his father figure (Qui-Gon). Filoni has covered this very well. Obi-Wan trained Anakin out of duty, but Anakin needed more attention than someone who considered him "another pathetic life form" at first meeting. Given Anakin's obsession with Padme they should have kept him away from her or asked him to leave the order.
     
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  16. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    Yup. Anakin's arc in the PT is all about selfishness and greed in a way. Anakin can't give up one thing for another, and that selfishness (combined with an unsupporting (if not unloving) system) led to his downfall. Meanwhile, his redemption is found in the selfless love and support of his son.

    After watching the PT, I always associated the "hubris" with Obi-Wan thinking he was good enough to be Anakin's teacher rather than it having anything to do with Anakin's age. Or rather, it was the age of the Master that was the problem, not the Apprentice.

    I'm honestly surprised it isn't in the text, given the lack of subtlety George usually has. The Jedi failed Anakin once with Shmi, telling him to forget his dreams about her instead of confronting them or believing them. Soon, Anakin is having the same dreams with Padme...and by the time he's willing/scared/open/desperate enough to go to the Jedi to Yoda, the wisest and (ocassionally) most open of them all, the advice he gets is the same advice as before - forget your loved one and let go. It's almost a no brainer why he didn't seek alternative solutions earlier.
     
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  17. SKB

    SKB Force Sensitive

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    Biggest Misconceptions?

    ....that Star Wars is a sci-fi film franchise. It isn't, it's a fantasy adventure fables and mythology tales saga that happens to be set in a different time and galaxy. There's no "science" or exposition of scientific techno-babble like in Star Trek. Sadly, the sequel trilogy is of a completely different tone to the George Lucas era films, which is why they don't work and don't fit.
     
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  18. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    Not sure what the sequel trilogy has to do with Star Wars not being Sci-Fi? Questions of quality aside, the tone of all the films fits to me. Even on the films I really don't like they still feel like Star Wars.
     
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  19. MandoChip

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    The biggest misconception is how people think Jar Jar is just some daft comic relief character when actually he's the most powerful and evil being in the galaxy. Shows how well written he is as a Villain, even the fans can't see past his disguise! Pure genius from Lucas.

    L5net-pC_400x400.jpg
     
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  20. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Official

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    It's not as ethically clear cut as that though. It's just your employer telling you that you can't have a partner in a relationship because you're expected to be devoted only to your job. It's not a selfish desire. It just proved unwise to
    Funny because a criticism I've heard quite a lot is that Star Wars is more of a Sci fi franchise, or was under Lucas. In which the "non-lucas" films don't fit.

    But I disagree with either argument.
     
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