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Can IX conclude the saga?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Jaxxon, Sep 9, 2018.

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Can IX conclude the saga in a satisfying way?

  1. Yes, it's right on track

    10 vote(s)
    20.8%
  2. Yes, but it will be tough

    29 vote(s)
    60.4%
  3. No, not a chance

    9 vote(s)
    18.8%
  1. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Green Space Rabbit

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    This is a different question than "do you like the sequel trilogy." I personally love TFA and TLJ.

    But thematically, TLJ seems to leave us in a place a bit adjacent to the rest of the saga. There are no immediate, specific conflicts left to resolve, other than defeating the First Order in general.

    But is defeating the First Order really a noble end to the whole saga? Wouldn't that feel a bit beside the point of the saga? Wouldn't that feel more like a little epilogue than a final chapter? Shouldn't the final victory deal with something connected to the previous two trilogies, not just a new threat invented for the sequels?

    The end of the saga needs to feel grand, cosmic, with implications for the galaxy and even for the Force itself. But such an ending doesn't seem built into the sequels yet. To get that kind of ending, they'll need to create the buildup and payoff in the space of one film.

    Not impossible, but difficult.

    What do you think? Can IX wrap up the entire saga in a satisfying way?
     
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  2. Jack_Forest

    Jack_Forest Force Sensitive

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    If it's the Skywalker family saga we are talking about, then - yes. There is only one Skywalker left and one Episode is more than enough to resolve his storyline one way or the other.
    If it's Star Wars as a whole we are talking about - then no, and why should it? Sure, one movie can resolve the First Order conflict (although it would be tough), but I'm sure we all want to see some more wars (in the stars) down the line, so there's no need to resolve everything and make it final.
     
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  3. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    If "Episode IX" supposed to conclude the saga, why bother making more STAR WARS movies? Don't you mean conclude the Sequel Trilogy? And in regard to this third trilogy, I'm sure that Lucasfilm and Abrams will conclude it. But honestly? I have such a low opinion of the first two ST movies that I doubt very much that if I like this third film, I will change my view of the trilogy overall

    I don't want to see any further movies about the First Order. The whole thing is not only a crap fest, but a second-rate version of the Empire. As for the end of the Skywalker saga, I regard "Return of the Jedi" as the end of that story arc.
     
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  4. ObieKenobie

    ObieKenobie Rebelscum

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    I think the sequel trilogy's thematic place in the sage becomes clearer when the films are considered in release order, rather than chronological order. The OT ends with Luke refusing to kill father, and with Anakin/Vader sacrificing himself to save his son, leaving us with a "Love's conquer all" type message. It's Love – Luke's for his father and Anakin for his son – that defeats evil in the end. Then the PT comes along and undermines this message: we learn that it was Anakin's love for Padme that lead him to the dark side in the first place. Suddenly Anakin's sacrifice rings hallow. If the situation arose, would Anakin have turned back to evil to save Luke's life? Has he really changed? It's now up to the ST to resolve this dilemma: how can "love conquer all" if "love" got us into this mess in the first place?

    So far, the ST has been restating/reestablishing this dilemma within the context of the new characters. Han's conversation with Ben on SKB echoes the ROTJ throne room scene: Han refuses to fight Ben the way Luke refused to fight Vader, and he is willing to sacrifice himself for the person he loves. But unlike ROTJ, Han's heroic gesture fails: not only does he not save Ben, but Ben actually kills Han himself in a (failed) attempt to prove that he no longer loves his father and that he's committed to the dark side. The scene in Snoke's throne room even more closely resembles the ROTJ scene. This time Ben kills Snoke to save Rey, just as Anakin killed the Emperor to save Luke. But this time Ben doesn't turn from evil; instead he invites Rey to help him destroy the past.

    Ben has been hurt by the people he cares about, the ones who are supposed to care about him, so he'd rather let it all die and remake the galaxy the way he wants it. Ben’s answer to the question posed by the first two trilogies is fundamentally destructive: he rejects the terms of the dilemma and tries to free himself from the bonds of love and family altogether.

    So, to finally answering the question: Episode IX should conclude the saga with Rey and Ben together finding a constructive, rather than destructive, answer to this problem surrounding love and family. I think this involves Rey saving Ben from the dark side, but in a way that transcends the ROTJ throne room. I’m not exactly sure what that would look like; I have some ideas but this comment is already much too long.
     
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  5. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    Let me get this straight . . . the Sequel Trilogy is all about Ben Solo?
     
    #5 CTrent29, Sep 9, 2018
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  6. ObieKenobie

    ObieKenobie Rebelscum

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    Yes. The final chapter of the Skywalker saga is about the last living descendant of Anakin Skywalker. I know, it's a crazy idea.
     
    #6 ObieKenobie, Sep 9, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2018
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  7. Ben-K-OB1

    Ben-K-OB1 Rebel General

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    It's going to be tough. While I loved TLJ I feel like it left our heroes in such a depleted position that I can't see the way out. The ultimate goal has to be to defeat the First Order, set up a proper government and wrap up the Skywalker storyline, that's a lot to accomplish in 2-3 hours. I still wish they would split it into 2 movies, I think that would be epic.
     
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  8. Messi

    Messi G.O.A.T.

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    I don't think the First Order must be completely defeated in IX. They can leave this subject open for next episodes or for the EU for example.

    What I am really sure that it must be end is the Skywalker saga. Will Kylo be redemmed or he will die in the end, or both? What about Rey: She will continue the Skywalker (Lukee) legacy or in a crazy twist she will pass to the dark side?
     
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  9. Lylo Ren

    Lylo Ren Rebel General

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    I like the way you think regarding the whole saga.
     
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  10. metadude

    metadude Rebelscum

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    That's not necessarily true. The kind of build-up ending you're talking about can already be there in not only the previous two ST movies, but all of the preceding movies. It doesn't have to be built-up in the last movie, it just needs to be suddenly revealed, suddenly connecting all the dots and causing the audience to suddenly see the old with new eyes. Seemingly insignificant and ordinary things can suddenly become significant and extraordinary. All you do is remove the proverbial veil of mundanity that is covering them. With the right writers, I don't think this would be difficult to do in one movie.

    But those are the stories that, to me, work best. The ones that change the way you look at what came before, and the little things become the big things. We call them twist endings because of that twist of perception that puts everything you just saw and everything you knew (or, thought you knew) into a different point of view. I expect this is going to happen in IX. All of the pieces are already set up, they have been since VII began. IX will be a series of, revealing that which was hidden. Revealing the extraordinary in those pieces which now seem ordinary to us. But because the pieces seem ordinary to us, we're wondering, where does it go from here? We're working from the point of view that the ending "doesn't seem built in" (key word: seem) but I expect the ending is in fact already built in, waiting to be revealed in IX. Star Wars is no stranger to changing points of view and revelations of new information which alters perception of what came prior. Old becomes new. TLJ was pretty much built on that premise and I'll wager it's going to culminate in IX. That's why all of the subversion of expectations. To wipe the slate and set the stage for the finale.

    But because it's hidden we can't see it coming, and if I were writing this, that is exactly where I'd want the audience to be. Not expecting a single thing. Everyone loves a good twist that no one sees coming.

     
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  11. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Guest

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    On a personal level, I can't see how IX can complete the 9 movie saga in a way that I will find appealing, but that's my opinion because I'm not a fan of the ST. It would be nice if I was surprised and IX makes the whole of the ST better, I'm certainly open to changing my mind, but I don't see this writing group accomplishing that.

    As for the trilogy, there really isn't that much to tie up at this point, certainly not too much to tie up in one movie. The KoR don't need to be in it, but there is certainly room for them to be. Kylo and Rey have to resolve their issues. The Resistance needs to be rebuilt, but I assume that will be done off screen and that group of 12 will magically become 1000+. Poe will have a leadership mantle (At some point I fully expect there to be a need for him to jump in cockpit at the climax). Leia will be working mostly offscreen due to circumstances:(. Finn and Hux are both kind of ruined though I expect JJ will come up with something interesting for them, certainly better than TLJ. Rose will tag along with Finn or Poe, possibly something to do with payback to DJ. The droids will tag along with their masters and Chewie will remain as chauffeur, possibly a bit more with Lando in the picture. Sprinkle in Lando and some FG Luke and this will wrap up the movie.

    The FO does not need to be annihilated, just defeated as the Empire was in RotJ. Beyond Kylo and his knights, there are no other major big baddies to take down (unless JJ decides to reinvent Hux again). I don't see them chasing down the "system" and bringing down the arms dealers. That would be a little too complex of a movie I think.

    The only thing I can see them doing to extend this into another trilogy, if they decide to go that way, is have a 3rd party join the fray. Vong or Hutts or Chiss or some such and both the Republic and FO need to team up. Events happen, the Skywalker series ends with Kylo's sacrifice(thus avoiding Reylo) and Rey and company are propelled into the next trilogy.

    Personally I hope they keep it simple and just end this trilogy then move on to other periods of time within the universe.
     
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  12. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Green Space Rabbit

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    I agree with this. I'm just not sure where one such surprising connection would fit. The obvious potential points of connection with were Rey and Snoke, but we can't really use these as our saga connection without retconning TLJ, right? I'm just not sure what else in the new trilogy could serve as a potential "omg that's connected to the whole saga!" thing. Rey? Parents are nobody. Kylo? We know his basic story. Snoke? Dead. The First Order, Phasma, Poe, Hux? Explained in canon.

    So what I'm saying is, I don't know how they can connect something in this trilogy to the rest of the saga without 1) introducing something new this late in the game, or 2) retconning TLJ.
     
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  13. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel Official

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    What is the big deal? Why do people want to end the Skywalker’s? You can have Star Wars movies that don’t include Skywalker. Why do some people want to destroy the legacy? It made billions, it has fans the love it. Why the thirst to destroy success? You don’t have to watch it or any Star Wars if you don’t want.
     
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  14. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    It's not about destroying the Skywalkers, but ending them with honor and glory. And if we need the Skywalkers back, then we can easily do so.
     
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  15. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel Official

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    We did leave ROTJ Skywalker with honor and glory and Rian dismantled the OT by turning the hero into a homeless degenerate.
     
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  16. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    First of all JJ left Luke on that island and not RJ. Secondly even George Lucas wanted Luke to be a hermit in his version of Episode VII. I may not like TLJ, but Luke's depiction was the natural step for his character development. It would have been boring (and unrealistic) to have the same Luke of the ROTJ.
     
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  17. Jack_Forest

    Jack_Forest Force Sensitive

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    They say laughter helps people live longer, so thanks for this post :D
     
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  18. daRinze

    daRinze Force Sensitive

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    @ObieKenobie : what you stated here above is awesome. A-WE-SO-ME.
    Gimme your account number and your price, I send you a cheque, because I totally buy your theory. lol.
     
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  19. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    The more I think about Episode IX the more I come to the conclusion that it doesn't have to end in a manner that is conclusive. Can it? Sure it can. Episode VIII feels kind of like Finale - part I with the Broom Boy ending and after TLJ there aren't really that many dangling plot threads, so screenwriters for IX don't have many limitations in terms of increasing the scope of the story. The only thing that I believe is needed for this ending to be truly meaningful is for Ben Solo to return to the Light. By himself. Sure, it was impportant for Luke to believe in his father's redemption, but it was still up to Anakin to do the right thing. IX needs to double down on tht mindset.
     
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  20. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Selfish love versus selfless love.

    Anakin wanted to save his wife out of his desire to be with her. He didn’t want to lose her. If he had to trade his humanity away to do it then he would. Selfish possessive love.

    Anakin wanted to save his son independent of his own survival. For his son’s sake, not his own. If he had to trade his life away to protect his son’s then he would. Selfless generous love.
     
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