HUMOR Can Rey trully handle herself or she just thinks she can?

I think we are so far off topic of this thread that it has started to confuse people. I personally dont mind cuz i can differentiate between what someone is arguing as opossed to what they should be arguing, but do you think we should switch to a new/different one in order to deconfuse others?

I don't think his reasons are personal trauma solely, that would make him too emo for my likings.
And think about this: "he justiffied it in politics" politics is a ground in which all who dabble in it end up tainted. No matter their original motives. Cuz that is how the system works. It is impossible for the 'good' guys to win there by playing fair. So they resort to fighting the 'evil' using the same modus operandi as the bad guys. But i ask you this. If you at one point do the same sith hlike the bad guys do what differentiates you from them? Your nobility? Where is it, if its tainted by guilt and responsibility of colaterall damage?

I dont think Kylo is mentally ill. And i find the motives for his downfall a crucial point in his redeemability in my eyes. Simply. It has to be more than 'this is all only about me'. I think he witnessed the good guys doing sith. Actuall objective sith. Not something dubious that "Snoke" manipulated him to see that way. Something that was so horrific that made him question who are the good guys here?

I see kylo as a man who is willing to go beyond and above for what he believes to be right. Sacrificing himself for it. Why is he with Snoke? I hope we find that out. He needs to have some noble motive, or in my head cant be a hero.

Snoke is a bad guy. Evil incarnate...lets do him in, burn him and cleanse our world of all evil cuz evil only exists in bad guys? i wish it were that simple.

If his motives are only oh im so dissapointed with how the world is treating ME than....ugh and blah.

Oh the sins of our fathers! Every parent's nightmare. Fighting their inate instinct to protect the children from bad influences of the world by hiding them away cuz of your noble intentions of protecting them from harm. But is it really noble or just easier? Cuz how can your kids be veary of the evil if they dont know it? Kids dont learn to walk unless they fall many times? A good parrent does not put cushions everywhere but rather is therle to land a comforting hug for the pain and a hand to get them back up on their feet.

I dont know. I think killing snoke will be Luke's responsibility. During what he will probably perish. In a selfsacrificial act of sorts. That would be in charachter for him. I just hope if it goes that way that Kylo is not somehow left to be blamed for it.
However, I think it is crucial we are shown that kylo wants to kill snoke. And that he even tries to do that in some noble way, but then Luke saves him. Directing the ga towards thinking better of kylo. Or something like tgat.

Have you ever wondered why does Snoke hate the Skywalkers so much? Luke especially? I feel its personal to him.

Yes. Important, but not most important

Luke was a Space Jesus. So completely planar in his goodness. I always found that boring cuz it seemed unrelatable to me. He is what most people think they are about themselves. Only in RotJ he was a bit more interesting, probably just cuz he wore black
(I jest about clothes, hope you can tell )

Not caring in a sense oh you bad boy come ye here to kiss me and make some sweet love to me. But rather...damn...i think there is more to him than meets the eye and my instincts say i should be sorry if he dies now and i dont ever have a chance to find out what that is?

Its okay to disagree and please do say all you wish. I promise i wont tantrum

Compare? No. They are fundamentally too different charachters to be compared that way.

When it comes to morality i have a problem with how in most people's minds it is percieved through not only a charachter's actions but also his bona fide relations. Case in point: resistance are the good guys hence all they do is deemed good and justifiable. While FO are the bad guys and all they do and are seems horrific and condemning. Even if objectively that might not be the case.
Poe blew away a planet. Fux blew away a planet (well planets, but still)
Resistance soldiers aka 'villagers' deaths are 'worse' than any stormtrooper's demise. Even if Finn showed us that every stormtrooper is a person with his own story.
One of the few things of R1 that i actually like is how it shows the ambiguity of the 'good' guys. Cuz things are never black and white and good guys do sith too that is always 'excusable' in people's heads JUST cuz they are 'good' guys....blah

I had made a thread a while back on some other forum about the ambiguity of good guys in sw universe. I am thinking of copy pasting it here. I worry about intelectual copyright tho....but If I wrote it then it is mine?

 

@JoJoPenelli
When you dont quote i am not sure i get right at what do you refer, hopefully in following, I did not misunderstand

Well, i cant say that i know how exactly did you understood what i exactly meant with this thread, but i know what I meant by posting it. To discuss personal perceptions on the topic of Rey's ability (or lack off) to handle her business going about living, working and interacting with other charachters she meets in SW world.
Those are Unkar Plutt, Finn, Han, Chewie, Kylo, Leia and Luke.
Bb-8 I dont consider as charachter cuz he is a droid.
Unkar Plutt is plain disgusting so I dunno what would I say about him.
Her interactions with Luke i also dunno what to comment atm, so I didn't.
My comment to FN-3263827 was about how in our latest posts we are more into dissecting who Finn and Kylo are as people than how they treat Rey. Such things happen a lot to me cuz i am known to delve into certain aspects of our (her and mine) conversations that in the moment resonate with me. That was not directed to you. If it was I would tag and quote you

Okay! I did not know there are formal rules of a conversation
Are you a lawyer? Or just like to watch lawyer shows a lot?

Please again, do not presume my intentions. Ask if you have doubts
And how exactly am i responsible for what people may or may not percieve? That falls in the responsibility domain of the perciever, I think

Or stating that this treated her like that while the other treated her like that?
As per bolded and underlined: selfexplanatory. It is your impression that you got probably by taking some of our words in a conversation out of context.

Did I say that? I posed a question about it cuz I like to discuss things that makes me personally raise an eybrow
And hello to another false presumption. I am arguing ambiguity and grayness of the ways good and bad guys behave and their modus operandi in the context of SW universe. With the emphasis on discussing the resulting double standards that may or may not be there.

I saw tht he likes to play with ambiguity of not only whole armies but also individuals
And, following that reasoning, are rebels in R1 then portrayed as terrorists?
This is a legitimate question. I only saw that movie once, but what it stuck with me how the whole conflict there (the part in that desert world, i forgot the name), the way it was portrayed, looked like a critique of some US Army foreign affairs and conflicts. Specially Cassian's story.

Agree to disagree?
Relax a little JoJo...and cheers, we are all friends here

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 11, 2017, Original Post Date: Jul 11, 2017 ---

Can we discuss that question without considering her interactions with others and how others treat her, tho? Handling one self in the world is goverened by the way we are percieved, no? She is a part if the world, not a hermit. I dobt see how can we discuss it without discussing how others treat her?
I dont think she is the most important charachter if the ST, no. At best she is equally important as kylo, the last Skywalker. With the way i am seeing where story is headed now. I am in the camp of there is no sw without Skywalkers and legacy and duty means something more in fictional stories such as this. If it turns out that she is one or kylo turns out to be plainly boringly evil, then i will change my mind, probably. It is hard to form such overrwaching conclusions based on one movie only, i think.

I used that with a kind of negative connotation in the sense if his motivation for all this sith he is doing is him only and how HE was hurt. Then he is an emo and i dont see justification for him being with the FO. It would mean he is just acting up his emo sith....i presumed you used the 'emmotionally weak' term in the similar context in one of earlier replies.

What is this guy's story? I haven't read Bloodlines

Oh no. I never said you said it! I said if it turns out to be only about him then im not gonna be able to stomach all he did as kylo. Noblesness is something important to me in heroes. Complete lack of it means one is not a hero. Thats why it is so important to me that we are disclosed all the background of his downfall.

But unrealistic. How can you find inspiration in a charachter's actions if he is unrelatable cuz he is so good that absolutely no one in real life can keep up with it? Or is it just the idea of it that is admirable?

I dunno what it will be. Hopefully interesting and epic and have everyone approve of it despite their initial abhorrence? Lolz...i dunno if thats possible with only 2 movies left in st. Perhaps in beyond st?

 

Hey hey hey....YOU kept on insisting finn's lies are excusable so that drove the conversation elsewhere.
I like talking about Rey. Specially on how others treat her cuz of her gender and stature (being a poor scavenger cuz of her principles mist probably, even if she is clearly capable of more, like being a pilot). Cuz that is so familiar. But i hate glorifications of ANY charachter. She isnt perfect. She can be very closeminded imo, in the sense that she mostly uses someone else's judgement about a person than her own personal experiences with that people. If you know what i mean.
I dont put ren on any pedestal either. I like to asses him objectively. I acknowledge his faults abd his evildoings, but try to justify them by offering deeper reasons for his apparaent evilness cuz i think there is more there than meets the eye and also there are not many that do that for him. Unlike they do for other charachters such as Finn or Poe that belong to the good guys. and yes i may defend him in things in an overprotective manner at time.

Me neither if we talk about a real person. But i just cant and never could do accept a movie charachter as a hero that would excuse stuff like 'kill them all' with...oh i am so hurt and in such pain cuz no one loves me so im gonna be a bad emo evil lord. There has to be objective nobility in his motives as well...for me.

I am so far behind on my reading. Could you just give me your take on the subject in short? If you dont want in public you can pm me if you wish to go into it

When i wrote 'relatable' i meant saw a parabol between your own actions in some things you did irl and the charachter's actions he did in the movie. Not that i ever killed or tied up anyone to a chair, i mean downplayed to non criminal actions lolz...like for example...i feel ren's lonelyness and disapointment with his parent(s) and the rest of the world that seems to have different priorities...and the resulting emmotional pain...i feel it acutely and chronically. And thats why i relate to him. I will also always aspire to be a space jesus like Luke. Thats different i think.

I hear you. Thats why it takes me AGES to write back! Also correcting my numerous typos that i make so often that my autocorrect now offers as spelling options, hahaha.
But this site has an excellent feature: 'save draft' so not all i write is lost if my internet connection breaks for example....which is a thing that made my replies sound harsh on some other sites whe often i had to retype all few times...phew...

Yeah...i know. What i was trying to say. We all probably do it to some extent.

Yes that is so true! She is like a child in so many things. I often think that is why people tend to feel so over protective of her. At first I was a bit worried that she will stay like that forever....now I like this what you wrote about RJ taking her towards her adolescence. I am looking forwards to seeing more mature content coming from her (in a non sexual way)

I have no problems with disagreements. I have problems with insinuations about my integrity or charachter if the opposing arguer doesnt like what i write and resorts to that.

Oh...okay

Oh no! Is that a LEGAL document?? Please dont make me read legal documents....i cant cant cant understand that language...

(Im kidding...ill probably look into it later...when i catch some more free time )

Fair enough. But do bear in mind that you dont know me personally, who exactly as a person i am, nor you have acces to ALL of my reactions (unfortunate limitation of cyberspace) except the written word what can (and does) often causes misunderstandings of intentions. So you can be sure of my intentions, but your judgement of it can still be wrong

I thought I did the problem arose when FN and i got sidetracked from the topic i think... and also...i am not a formal debater...but some very smart people with loads of experience in it ALWAYS tell me that it is a responsibility of the challenger to prove invalidity of a point?
I like to think myself more of a moderator when i create a thread. One that asks interesting questions that provoke a debate. Sure i can have my own opinion on the matter as well...but the question is genuine and i am not trying to direct opinions just get a feed back. Also be allowed to give my opinion without being labeled as a space nazi sympathizer
Sometimes debates are not about winning as much as they are about acknowledging other people's povs

Thats cuz most people presume the worst about other people. It is a sad truth of our world, I think. But undoubtedly rooted in tgeir own experience. That can get them offended by a legitimate question because they spontaneously accredit intention behind it.

In refering to bolded and underlined in this:
"I certainly got the impression you were directly comparing Kylo and Finn, especially as the responses progressed. When one says, in effect, "X treated Rey this way, while Y treated her that way," you are drawing a comparison."

I was refering as selexplanatory that it is you yourself who said it was your personal impression. Please allow, that your personal immpressions do not make things true by default

I posed a question...and here drew a parallel between two opposing factions using the same means of fighting. What i asked for was an opinion about if anyone else noticed this and also i wanted a discussion about wheather the "intention" behind same/similar modus operandi (that is at least morally dubious) make it justifiable. Not excusable, please. Its never excusable.
My personal input on this is that 'good' guys need to find means to fight the dirt with clean hands! Imposiblle very often i know, but then it should be acknowledged. Not just hypocritically say...yeah but when we do it then it's fine.

I believe that no topics should be shy away from (shied away from...whats the correct grammair here?).
I also believe that posing questions to doubt legitimacy of certain claims and/or actions of good guys is not scary. Falls in the domain of free speech and having a critical mind, imo.
I do believe also that if you read something you are not comfortable to dabble in, look away do not ask for it to not be said out loud!

I just hate the impression i got that they did bad sh*t and thus deserved to die from a narrative point of view. Like it was used as some sort of justification why they 'couldn't' be saved. Im aware that thats the loophole of the story cuz of what was said in anh: many bothans died blah blah....but...it coukd have been made so that jyn and cassian at least secretly escaped their death cuz they certainly earned their right to live peacufully the rest of their lives in a quite corner of the universe not paying anymore attention to this stupid war that took all from them, even the parts of their humanity.

I cant say i like R1 much. It looks too much like a war movie at times that i had to remind myself this is a sw movie often while watching it.
I liked the robot best. He was ironically the most human of them all to me.

Then don't.

 

Question away. Thats where the fun starts the way i see and understand both charachters as in tfa, i beg to differ. For one...I bet that in a FO hierarchy going against direct Snoke orders can be considered gutsy. Do remember that we do not know what is kylo doing with the FO!

Strongly disagree! Finn lies to cover and/or save his ass. Kylo is self deluding himself at the moment that he is a Dark Side only warior. Probably cuz something happened to light side Ben who couldnt deny his darkness. So he felt like he must be evil? The Jedi logic demands it? Or for whatever reasons...i dunno. I think he will stop lying to himself when he acknowledges he is both...a lightsider and a darksider.

He doesn't admit them willingly. He is caught in them. Only when he is seen through does he stop and break the keyfabe (did i spell that right? hahaha) cuz there is nothing else he can do. Would he ever come clean unless cornered, I wonder.

"I have no recollection of this" *puffs smoke*
Killing of Han had, in my honest and humble opinion, NOTHING to do with Snoke. Its his pain pain pain only. Such a beautifuly honest emotional moment between the son and the father. Undeniably shown that the father somehow hurt and disapointed the son who wanted to end it all for himself at one point (when he gives him the lightsaber, cuz without redemption by some grand act of valor there is no life for ren outside of FO, only death). No Snoke there between the two man on the bridge. Unless you mean that Snoke somehow brainwashed Ren to feel the pain where there is none? Yuck and ugh to that. I HOPE Kylo is not that weak. And with the 'its too late..." Ren practically renounced Snoke moments before. Lonelyness. As in....no one has my back in things i need help with. That is what i see there.

Compassion for someone who has none for anyone else but himself and his emmotional pain? If he is going evil just cuz he finds he cant deal with it? That borderlines with excusing selfcenteredness and arrogance. Again...irl that is a hard discussion. Even if a person in question is a victim. But in a movie...no...no discussion at all if we talk about heroes...Ren is more than selfcentered emo....IMO (lolz...notice the wordplay )
And about him I feel I am entitled to joke around this topic...for reasons that are my own.

Hah! I knew this to be true before Bloodlines then. I felt it. Why else would Ren go to them? (FO is that righteous and noble and orderly heart of the empire, right?)

And omg FN! Dont sigh on this!! @JoJoPenelli will downpour her judgement on ya!
(Dont worry...i got your back )

You mean aspirational can be relatable?
And sure. But can we actually be Luke the space jesus gandhi as i like to call him? For example...I dont think that one judged anyone in his whole life. Not even his space nazi father


And I have a question for you. Outside of the topic of this thread but who cares about that. I watched tfa again the other day. And this time when i see Kylo talking to vader something struck. So...when he says that supreme leader senses it. His pull to the light. Could it be that he is refering to their conversation where snoke says...there has been an awakening. Have you felt it. And kylo answers yes. Could have Snoke been refering to awakening of the light side in kylo. Prompted by the fact HE noticed Finn breaking away from his conditioning on jakku but did NOTHING?
Btw...i always felt like that 'talk' with vaders helmet is an actual conversation with an unseen etnity in the room. The question is is tgat etnity real like a force ghost or just kylo's halucination.
And btw2...i tried to observe finn's reactions more this time around. He does seem to react ernestly lost, scared, confused, disoriented as in not having idea what he should do at times. Except when he talks to Maz about her not having idea who he is what he has seen...i wonder about that sentence lately.

Agreed
(To the safe draft option)

It was necessary cuz you missread the intent. My statements, questions still stand unaltered, tho. I put them lower in the reply cuz i dont wish to repeat myself. This is a long reply already

I also think Finn is very similar. And i think thats why people excuse him so easily.

I am aware that my input or take on things wont change what will happen in the story. Also that for sure it wont go down the way i would like in all that will happen. When that happens i will accept it

I....did not understood a word from there....I knew it...
You ARE a lawyer....panki? (sorry, inside joke, i assure you totally benign...panki is a real life lawyer person i know from some other forum (i think...i hope i didnt confuse her with someone else, lolz...it happens ))

In cyberspace as well, i think.

Only if you plan to insinuate their charachter traits, then i would say its a necessity to study one's online behaviour but even that may not be enough if you are dealing with smart people that like to argue from a logical stand point. I dunno....

No matter if your claims are proven or not, no one should judge anyone else online and call them racist. Argue the point not the poster.
And no. Not everyone judges. Look at @FN-3263827-iavelli here, for one

How bout causing probable doubt?

In that case I would argue could it be that x is commonly accepted as true just because most people think so. Some debates are not about winning. But proving a point.

Rey is a Kenobi?

Thnx. i kinda post the same way always i think.

Oh boy.
1. Empire's=/=FO's=/=Kylo's crimes
2. I dont hold fascist beliefs but I do like to question the authorithy of the good guy people particularly when it comes to their hypocrisy or double standards. I will always do that. At the risk of being called racist...fascist....abusing relationshipper and all other petty namecallings that come from bullies that are in all honesty too inept to do better.
3. I dont have the need nor i justify my relatability and compassion of kylo. I claim it...publicly. a lot Cuz im looking to find like minded people to talk about the topic that interest me in a more profound way. As in finding out how they relate to the same charachter. In that I I feel i have the same right as all other members of the board that do the same about charachters or theories or ships they believe in/support.So, for example... i will never go to a Finn thread to dish him to provoke others. Why would i?
Somehow I find more people that are so offended by me liking kylo that they resort to public namecalling. But whatever.
4. I will give my opinion about a charachter if it comes up in a conversation or is asked of me.

In the original post I listed why i think Finn and Han patronize Rey. And why i think Ren isnt. Without comparing them. On Han's actions, FNiavelli and I agreed. On Finn and Kylo we dont, so we still discuss/share our takes on it, which at the moment have shifted miles away from Rey, true...and probably dwelled into direct comparisons about a certain aspects of their behaviour and motivations beneath it...but...i try to not compare the two charachters in a general way cuz in my head they are to different to compare...i certainly do not do it in terms of them as romance options for Rey. Because there is no scenario in which the part of me that relates to Rey would ever again consider a man that lies when he does not need to, attractive. "I'm done with the First Order. I'm never going back"
Also we are free to discuss whatever we want here, i think, cuz i know the thread creator personally and she wont mind off topicness much. Or at all.

Unavoidable to form impressions. But what you do with it is what matters.

My 'statement' on that point is a question. That i am still waiting to hear your take on. (We only discussed my political correctness and potential sympathy for space nacism....sorry...gotta laugh at that term...so i will )
Do you think resistance and fo share some same modus operandi? such as blowing up planets or killing soldiers in an unfair stand offs instead of imprisoning them? If you dont its the end of discussion. If you do....i am then curious to your opinion on how you justify it? Just by stating that resistance are clearly the good guys so all they do is justifiable by default? (Do notice please that i aim to ask my questions to get opinions that will contribute pro good guys justifications or acknowledgement for their shady deallings and not looking to absolve the bad guys from guilt).

I dont think this parabol is valid. Hux's stormtroopers are people. They may be conditioned to make them more obedient (which would in a way make them actually exusable for following bad orders), but they still have all the traits of humans. Such as feel pain, have fears, form emmotinal connections (just look at finns best buddy on jakku that prompted finns breakage from his conditioning. After poe shoots him in the back he obviously dies in pain and fear. Reaching out to Finn for comfort in his last monents of life. Such a strong emotional response that ignites something in FN-2187. Or that baton stormtrooper tr8r that seems particularly distraught with Finn abandoning his buddies)...Finn existence supports that stormtroopers are human as well. He is the Face of the white helmets. Remember the cute baby face on the screen when hux is assesing what went wron with Finn wilth Phasma. All of them have similar story to his own. Stormtroopers are not just genetically engineered clones or droids so it could be argued they are less than humans.

Dunno...disabling them perhaps and imprisoning the military personel of death stars or deconditioning hux's men....but i get how that would not be as visually as attractive as blowing it up. And pilots make for much better heroes than engineers and diplomats in the fantasy world.

Ummm....nope. i dunno where you live but where i come from...we can say whatever we want. If we can argument it. Sure, saying things that are unpopular has consequences, but i dont find that as a limitiation as much as it prompts my defiance and sparks my zeal to argue rightfull points. I blame my father for this. He has alway lead by example in such things. As having a crytical mind and inability to turn on the blind eye to gain material sh*t.

As in without space nazis allegiance insinuations? Agreed!

Gutsy? Hmmm...it was more like lack of imaginative storytellying to escape the predetermined fates of the charachters without creating any loopholes...
I think it was too much deaths in a very short time of the charachters we had not time to emmotionally connect to have that effect? Except with K2SO

Voice it! Just...dont focus on the arguer but the argument!
No hard feelings and we are good? (Its how i see things )

 

Milk cow? You think he is with FO cuz he wants to be popular??
*doublesighs*
In my opinion. He is not with the FO to cower away from his mom or luke or the resistance. He is there to achieve his agenda. That at the begining of tfa he thought FO and Snoke is about, but by the end of the movie that changes. He grows doubts about fo and snoke, i think...specially after blowing up hosnian system with what he clearly disagrees...Snoke pretty much ordered him to turn the girl to him. But what he does? He wants to teach her the WAYS of the Force. Not the WAY (DARK WAY) of the Force. That right there shows independent thinking outside of what Snoke is...defiance at its best...or are you suggesting Snoke is both light and dark too? *shrugs* i dont see it.

Why?

How? Who is he perserving himself (Kylo) from? The Jedi Luke? His mom? Resistance? He is takibg initiative to find luke? And to do so without destroying the illeenium system. Or you mean FO and Snoke? He is not affraid of hux...he toys with him. And Snoke...is fat far away. Cant touch him even if i believed in all that crap about Snoke phtsically abusing him in a sort of stocholm syndrome sort of relationship. Ren is with FO and Snoke by choice!
Also...Self-delusions are more about justifications of one's actions?

Seriously? Ummm...NOPE...capital nope!
Example:
A cheater chaught in fligrante with pants down has not the same credibility as the cheater who admits the offense by their own choosing cuz they themselves came to realise the error of their ways. One has the benefit of the doubt the other...nope.

Intentions matter! Or you want to go down the road of equating similar/same actions of resistance and FO?

If that was the case then after Han's "Ben!!":



This:

would follow immediately!

There WOULD BE NO this:

Or this:


The pain Han caused is real. And it alone is the reason he died. And ofc Leia sending him to do her job.

Kylo is not affraid to die. He is with FO for other reasons.

There is no substitute for a disappointing parrent. Blood is thicker than water. Kylo dealt with his daddy issues when he killed his dad. He is not looking for a father in Snoke. He looks for a leader.
If i am wrong...then we are all in luck and all is good cuz of Ren's special way of how he deals with his daddies hahaha...Snoke is doomed!

Compassion is based in empathy. Relatability with the subject of your compassion. As such, it is NEVER objective. And by its definition it is causatory (causative?? Im missing words in english)...as in consequential....a response of some state of the subject one have compassion for? I do not relate nor i have compassion for people that have no compassion for anyone else. As in pedophiles, sociopaths, psychopaths and such...i dont care if they cant help it or if its their choice to do so. There is no justificiation/excuse/compassion for deliberate and uncompassionate hurting of an innocent. But...them can have justice. In the form of lethal injection or a gun.

Im confused now. Novelization is canon or its not canon? Or its canon in only the things we like? I forgot who's castelfo...author?

I think that....even righteous and noble and orderly organizations can do bad sh*it. Just look at US foreign policies
Or any political faction, really.

I dunno. I would cheer a friend who climbs it. The rest get like...oh cool...so what else is new.
I should read some gandhi biographh or something...then I would comment in more depth...i dunno how he lived his life outside of whats popular opinion. But im sure that there was more to him.

So you think awakening is Rey? And not Finn or ren?

Fair enough...but look between sec. 3 and sec 6...after he says: forgive me i feel it again....he lowers head in admission...then pulls it back up as if prompted by a question we dont hear...a question sych as: "what do you feel?" To what he answers a pull to the light....looked to me like he is having a conversation i so hope tgere is an actual Ani force ghost there not just a voice in Kylo's head

Dunno. Looked to me like he was excusing his runing away to what Maz said.
Does he remember who he is, then? Is there some description on what hux's conditioning/programming of his soldiers entails in practice? Some sort of physical conditionig or just brainwashing?

 

English is not my native language. Milk cow is the same as a trophy/prize horse idiom? Normally a first knight of an army that is sort of the face that is used for pr purposes too to sell ideas to lower men...also a person that quite likes the attention and his position. Specially the benefits of it. Like Poe is in resistance. Do you have that in english?
Sorry if i got you wrong. What did you mean by milk cow?

Self-preservation in men who fear not death? Interesting...

But ofcourse

Theres no Snoke there on that bridge...just sayin'

Somhow, that makes me sad.

Nah...i dont read authors i dont hold exceptional.

Me too.....and....We'll see

Im trying to find compassion for a liar, thats why i asked

 

Finn is not people. He is a charachter. Whose change of heart is still unproven in obviousness. And what lies behind his obvious is lies. And yes, I need a reason to believe in a liar. Hope he gives me one in TLJ.

I cant relate to people who can relate to psychopaths. Which Kylo isnt. If I thought he is, redemption would not be possible. Which is also a non-absolute thing like compassion isnt....it's relative...either to oneself or the other(s)...like the sin/transgression that requires the redemption.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes....and the Jedi. But as we all know they are both wrong so....mweh

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 17, 2017, Original Post Date: Jul 17, 2017 ---

Thats a mighty brave thing to say in a world full of feminists. But yeah...i personally cant say i dont agree with this.
I specially like your reasoning about the proof Kylo never intended to harm her during interrogation. Wow.
*approves of fresh input*

 

It is? Why? Otherwise heroes would be just about anyone.

I dont know what that means. Read it again. It'll come to you