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Can we find common ground?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Lock_S_Foils, Feb 10, 2018.

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  1. zazeron

    zazeron Rebelscum

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    imdb is dirt...look at the imdb score of black panther and tell me that fascists arent trying to sink the audience scores of these diverse movies
     
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  2. Darth_Mu

    Darth_Mu Rebelscum

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    Not enough info.
    Have to wait for youtube, rotten tomatoes, and metacritic audience scores.
    And of course most importantly the boxoffice.
     
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  3. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    yup and just watch as soon as RT and others allow audience scores you will see similar results. Ever since TFA Star Wars has had a target in it for alt-right. Remember the attempted boycot of Rogue One. That didnt work so they went a different route. Use Social Media to drive negativity and Black Panther also has a bullseye on its back being black character dominated.
     
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  4. Darth_Mu

    Darth_Mu Rebelscum

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    There was an attempted boycott of Rogue One?
    I think the only one that worked was The Golden Compass. A shame.
     
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  5. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    Yup they're doing the same thing. But now that people know that there are people doing this, there will be people who will try to upvote or use 'enhanced mechanisms' to alter the score more positively.

    All in all, in this day and age, IMDB, Metacritic, RT and all the other audience aggregators have become completely unreliable. Which is an awefull shame. So.....

    TRUST THE CRITICS!
    :)
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 12, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 12, 2018 ---
    Peter Rabbit is also being boycotted at the moment. I believe it had something to do with allergies.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 12, 2018 ---
    Research has shown this to be absolutely true.
     
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  6. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    Here is an article. https://www.wired.com/2016/12/rogue-one-alt-right-boycott/ If you search for it you will find many more articles and even Stephen Colbert mocking the alt-right.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 12, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 12, 2018 ---
    Unfortunately a 1/10 for a good movie will have more effect on a good movie then 10/10 on a good movie will. Say a movie is a consensus 8/10 a bunch of jerks coming and giving it a 1/10 will have a greater effect then a bunch of fans giving it a 10/10
     
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  7. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    Frakking statistics. To hell with them! :p
     
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  8. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Yeah, here's my hot take: Reviews are useful as a way to dispense information. When you review a movie, it's important to be honest. However, it's also important to remember your review should be useful to your audience.

    For example, if I was to go any see The Phantom Thread, I think I'd be bored to pieces. I've seen most of the Best Picture nominees for this year, but that one just hasn't caught my interest. Maybe it could surprise me, but hypothetically let's say I was still underwhelmed- in my review, I can absolutely be honest, but I'd probably also have to acknowledge that my opinion does run against the grain. Otherwise, if I was just to give it a 2/10 and just try to pass it off as a terrible movie merely because it didn't appeal to me, my credibility would totally and absolutely be questionable.

    So, here's the conundrum- it's important to get different viewpoints, and I think common ground can, ironically, spring from an appreciation of this diversity of thought. However, at what point does a review lose its value? If most users are rating a film as 8/10 or higher, can a review of 1/10 be discarded?

    It's actually a huge problem, because while it may not be appealing to actually discard and arguably censor people with opinions that are drastically different than the norm (or, of course, also there are trolls), the effect that even a minority of radically deviating scores can have can actually heavily invalidate the aggregate scores of everyone, particularly the non-troll users. Suddenly, the "norm" has become radicalized as well, and we end up with a situation like The Last Jedi or Black Panther, where a film's audience score is not indicative of anyone's opinion anymore.

    And if a film review's purpose is to dispense information... doesn't that mean that the entire site's analysis of it has been invalidated and is effectively useless? What's even the point of it, at that point?
     
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  9. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    In defense of Phantom Thread...I too had no interest in it other than PTA and DDL working together one last time. It's totally not a movie for me but it's so well done you can really forgive it all. It's good.
     
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  10. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Yeah, I guess it was a bad example since I haven't seen it yet and can't confirm that I actually don't like it, but it's more of a hypothetical.

    Thanks, though- I'll have to give it a try anyway. :)
     
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  11. FN-3263827

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    i like reviews for a different reason and it's not the numbers. i don't watch movies based on the numbers. i generally try to see anything that has buzz and that i know i won't outright dislike (like, say something with Ben Affleck in it ~ ha!). i don't care if it has a 46 or a 96. i'll watch it if it looks interesting.

    but here's a good example of how i look at reviews. this morning i checked the reviews for Peter Rabbit. it looks like a terrible, stupid mindless film in the trailers and i'm offended by self-righteous little animals trashing people's houses. i read the reviews to see that the positive reviews say it's slightly better than just mindless and that the performances are good. the negative reviews mostly say it's an affront to Beatrix Potter.

    well what did they think it was going to be based on the trailer? it obviously has no interest in following the temper or tone of Potter's books, so that as a piece of criteria by which to judge it is already ludicrous beyond not liking the aesthetic. that's like going to see a movie called IronTarzan 2096 full of Blade Runneresque visuals and complaining that there wasn't enough jungle and therefore it betrayed Burroughs.

    but it's this sort of lack of perspective that unfortunately drives a lot of film criticism: judging a thing by points for which it was never intended to be assessed.
    one can certainly question the choice of a production to take source material and stray so far from its original intent/premise, and make an analysis thereon, but to flat out say something is bad because it's not a faithful rote adaptation sort of denies adaptation as an art form.

    series films are likewise often judged in this way. continuity is one thing, but some people just don't know where to stop.

    edit: oh dear, i got so rambly, i forgot to make my point about Peter Rabbit:

    given that the positive reviews dispel a number of my concerns about the stupidity and the mean-spiritedness of it, and that the negative reviews are mostly complaining about Beatrix Potter's unassailable dignity, i will probably watch this even though it has a "rotten" score of 58.

    that, and who can resist a movie with this hilariously bad review:

    Screen Shot 2018-02-12 at 10.19.37 AM.png
     
    #91 FN-3263827, Feb 12, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
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  12. AfraidFool

    AfraidFool Rebel Trooper

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    I just do whatever RedLetterMedia tells me to.



    ^^^ kidding...


    Kind of....


    But in reality
    I think in order to trust a review, you have to trust the reviewer... To trust a reviewer, you have to know their likes and dislikes just as well as you know your own.
    It also works in the opposite. There are some reviewers out there that may give a positive review to something that would in turn show me that I would not like that movie.
     
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  13. IHateJCFForLife

    IHateJCFForLife Rebelscum

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    I am just glad we can even have this discussion. One most SW forums(won't mention any name). The thread gets shout down for ''hate speech'' or ''sexism''. Even if the term Mary Sue has nothing to do with it.
     
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  14. Darth_Mu

    Darth_Mu Rebelscum

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    On a certain forum, you cannot say Mary Sue. If you only knew the power of the pet character side of the Force. You must obey the Mods.
     
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  15. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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    Fair call. I'm guessing @Lock_S_Foils is presenting an opportunity to get people to the point of being able to discuss things intellectually and without hyperbole.

    Finding common ground a handy tactic in conflict resolution and it helps give perspective to a problem. In many conflicts once we list our shared concerns against our unshared differences we generally find many more shared concerns than issues that separate us. Once we note the things that brought us together in the first place we get along better - it's how friendships are formed.

    Sorry if I sound a bit didactic here but this is something I'm currently learning about and think it's worth sharing. We should all have been taught these techniques in school methinks
    .
    My other favorites conflict resolution tools are:
    • Defining what the conflict is about. You've got to get through the fog to have a chance at reconciliation.
    • The problem is the problem. It's never "you against me" it's you and me against a problem.
     
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  16. Darth_Mu

    Darth_Mu Rebelscum

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    In the post above I meant that in a certain SW forum, if you call any character a "Mary Sue", a certain person will go ballistic and demand you call that character a "pet character", or else.
     
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  17. zazeron

    zazeron Rebelscum

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    this would have made 400 million more dollars if this was how the movie went down for a 1.7 billion dollar worldwide gross ;). not to mention a audience score of 101 percent
     
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  18. SeaFishelle

    SeaFishelle Clone Commander

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    I'd just like to say that I think I understand the single biggest problem with TLJ, and am willing to admit that it failed as a film. But read what I'm saying carefully.

    Things tend to get popular when there's something for everyone in them. When it comes to the OT, some people like the space setting, some like the characters, some like the story, some like the filmmaking, some like a huge array of things to like about it.

    TLJ lacks a lot of elements that a lot of people enjoyed about Star Wars, while including elements that only specific groups of fans like about Star Wars. Me, I'm not one to care much about characters or story. I'm into the philosophy, the creativity, the setting, etc. But I'm not everyone, and that's the catch.

    What I mean is, TLJ doesn't appeal to that massively diverse audience that the OT appeals to. It's written for a certain group of people. And, for a mass-market film in the biggest-name franchise in modern history, that can easily be considered a wrong move, and in the end, a failure.
     
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  19. Darth_Mu

    Darth_Mu Rebelscum

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    I have wondered when the HISHE cut would be released.
    It seems we have been infiltrated by the "certain forum" I was talking about.
    Edit: Paging AnakinFanSince1987.... Paging AnakinFanSince1987.
     
    #99 Darth_Mu, Feb 12, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
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  20. Stormagadon

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    We're supposed to be trying to find common ground, not just stating the things you dislike about the film or how it failed. Let's find how we can discuss the troublesome areas and enjoy talking about the aspects that we agree on.
     
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