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Canon vs. Legends

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Legends' started by Jake Wolfe, Mar 8, 2017.

  1. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Jedi Commander

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    *Adds “Plagueis” and “Secrets of the Jedi” to Archives*

    F45D57B9-D6FF-4334-A4CE-1BF79B8DA9EA.png
    My library sure is getting full. :D

    GL said he hated the Vong. I must admit to fight them you would be better off being a Jedi Guardian (lightsaber mastery) or Jedi Sentinel (masters tech and other means).

    Your sentiments are shared. This Nu-Canon is so microscopic and fixed on 40yrs, when it even mentions “a thousand generations live in you now.” Why can’t the Legends be canonized? They are by far more intriguing and entertaining than another Solo film or what happened right before the Battle of Jakku.
     
    #101 Kato Sai, Nov 20, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
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  2. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Force Sensitive

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    I hope they are eventually, once the ST is over, going to move into the Old Republic Era. Instead of focusing on a period of just 40 years they'd have 1000 years or more to cover. So much stuff to do.

    And while I really like the Vong idea, I get the problem with them and their immunity to the force. Before I say this, I wanna mention I'm not trying to bash Rian Johnson. Part of what has scared me about the idea of a Johnson trilogy was the statement about going to other parts of the universe or whatever he had said. It seemed to me like, for a while there, they were trying to get away from the force and the Sith vs. Jedi. But to me that is what makes Star Wars what it is. It is the heart and soul of the IP. Sure, I'd love a series about the underworld, etc... but the force and the sith/jedi rivalry is what makes it what it is. Getting away from that, especially in films, would be, in my opinion, a HUGE mistake.
     
  3. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Jedi Commander

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    The Vong Saga is something I hope Lucasfilm isn’t considering for any trilogies. As you so eloquently said the soul of the SW Saga is the Force and Jedi vs. Sith. I was very concerned when TLJ promos came out with “The Jedi need to end,” and the reviews of Kylo’s speech “let it all die, the Sith and the Jedi.” I am glad that was only a ruse and not a major plot point.
     
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  4. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Force Sensitive

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    I think they could have mined the Vong saga for ideas while not taking it all and turning that into a film(s). Example: Instead of Chewie dying, have Han die trying to save one of his children. Have him AND Leia have 3 kids, not one. Have Luke as the head of a new Jedi order. It can be a small order, but at least that gives him the position fans WANTED for him while, at the same time, sidelining him in the same way they had Yoda and/or Mace on the sidelines. You could have a new threat, the Vong (but without force resistance). Just a few ideas thought up in the time I've been typing this up.
     
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  5. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Jedi Commander

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    What you just described would have been so ideal! A compromise would have been to have the Vong temporarily Force resistant and then suddenly and awakening. Luke battling a Vong: I feel it.. its all around you and inside you.. The Force. Then Luke levitates a Vong and the wae shifts in favor of the Jedi.

    I am holding out hope that Rey is Jaina Solo and will kill Kylo/Darth Cadeus.

    I wish JJ and RJ had let us see Luke’s New Jedi Order before Ben destroyed it.
     
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  6. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Force Sensitive

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    I would have gone with something like this:
    1. The Jedi order has been rebuilt, although it is small.
    2. The Galactic Republic has been restored. I ALWAYS hated the term "New Republic." How long must it remain in place until they drop the "new"?
    3. The imperial remnant has been hiding out and is similar to the Nazi's who escaped Europe. They are being hunted down by the Jedi.
    4. The "First Order" has a crazy plan: they have Anakin's DNA and they are gonna try and clone him. One of those clones, for some unexplained reason, upon "birth" was female.

    Run with it from there. Or they could have done the Vong but like you said, they are only force resistant for a time. Perhaps the Jedi (Luke) figure out how they are "doing it" or once they've been in the GFFA for a time they are susceptible to the force?

    I just think the Jedi/Sith thing is at the heart of what IS Star Wars. If they didn't want to do that then they should have stayed away from a ST and instead moved into the Old Republic Era and done the first Jedi/Sith War. Something like that.
     
  7. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Jedi Commander

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    Perhaps the Vong emit a Force Severance around their bodies, like what cut off Ulic Qel Droma from the Force, only this instead makes using Force powers on them impossible and Luke finally figures out to break through the barrier and then can use the Force on the Vong.
     
  8. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Force Sensitive

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    You could also do it with the lizard like things from the original Thrown trilogy...If I'm remembering that rightly. I mean, I only read it once when it first came out way way WAY back in the day.
     
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  9. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Jedi Commander

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    It would be a way to allow Force Immune but keep it within the mythos of the Force itself. What lizards are these you speak of? I only know of The Swarm from New Republic Era.
     
  10. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Force Sensitive

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    The are called the Ysalamiri. They weren't immune to it but they could repel it by creating a force-bubble. I had misremembered that part, but it has been a long time since I read those books. Perhaps its time to reread them. LOL
     
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  11. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Jedi Commander

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    Couldn’t help it. :D
     
  12. Clankershot

    Clankershot Rebel Trooper

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    I rather liked the New Jedi Order. I wish Luke as Grandmaster still was a thing. I think my biggest issue with the whole thing is I loved Ben Yoda Skywalker as a jedi. And now he doesn't exist. Except in legends. But I actually have enjoyed the sequel trilogy and stand alone movies. They're not perfect but I think I'll get used to everything. Also I like the stance some YouTube channels take. " Legends can still be canon so long as they fit and dont contradict which means alot of legends can still be canon."
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 10, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 10, 2019 ---
    But honestly, I just love starwars. If legends exist in a kind of " multiverse" now that's ok. I'm a marvel and DC fan. They've done that for a long time. Still kinda does suck that so much universe expansion never " really" happened. But stories like Sherrod Hett and stuff still fit. Even if not officially.
     
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  13. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Force Sensitive

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    I keep saying it, but they really should have not discontinued the EU. I would have continued the "levels" of cannon that you had. Simply added a level: d-cannon or nu-cannon. And I would have continued to publish material in both the old EU and the new DEU (or whatever). I would have said the films are the only thing that rises to the level of "cannon" and, if we ever get there, the same holds true for tv series (which obviously we have arrived at now).
     
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  14. Clankershot

    Clankershot Rebel Trooper

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    I mean I get why they did. But it just sucks that now a bunch of the later stuff is just an alternative universe now. But I mean marvel comics and DC do that so it's not too horrible.
     
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  15. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Force Sensitive

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  16. Clankershot

    Clankershot Rebel Trooper

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    I mean I honestly just liked Luke's continued story. And I liked Ben as a jedi character.
     
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  17. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Force Sensitive

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    Disney or LFL (whomever made the call) screwed the pooch when they decided the ST should focus more on their new characters and not on the original ones. The hunger to see Luke, Han, Leia, Chewie, R2 and 3PO together again on the screen doing something important was huge. They didn't have to base the entire trilogy on them, but at least have them kind of like Mace Windu and Yoda were in 1-3. Instead we find out Han is a dead beat dad who sold his medal for drinking money? Luke is bitter and broken for a weak A%$ reason, and Leia has reverted to the Leia of Episode IV? Not what people were wanting to see.
     
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  18. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    I completely disagree with this. The actors are/were old. They couldn't continue their adventures forever. The ST did the right thing in passing the baton onwards. It's what all sequel series should do honestly.

    That's true. But at the same time it wouldn't have felt real. It would have felt...weird. Like when your parents and their friends get together again; or when you go to a high school reunion. It wouldn't have worked beyond a single movie. Again, I agree that it was a missed opportunity to see everyone together, but most of it wouldn't have worked for the story anyways.

    This honestly doesn't bother me as much as other people. It's just a common trend in media now. We see it here, we saw it in Avatar: The Legend of Korra (Aang and Toph weren't the best parents); it shows up some in the latest God of War (Kratos so emotionally distant from his son I'd nearly call it abusive at the beginning) as well as Boruto (Naruto is a good father, but Sasuke...that's a convo for another time), and Logan is all about the cynicism of aging and taking care of the one who took care of you. People break, even our heroes. But it's not the brokenness that should define them, but how they react to it.
    Han abandoned his marriage (not his family, as Ben was off training with Luke way before Han's reversion), and so did Leia. But their love was never lost and they reconciled before their deaths.
    Luke gave up on the Jedi, believing the most noble thing he could do was to end their story. But in the end, Luke realized he was wrong and did the single most Jedi act he could do, mirroring Obi-Wan's sacrifice for him.
    Leia's life as a politician was ruined, but she never stopped fighting the good fight. She fought as a leader and soldier in the first war, as a politician in the time of peace, and now once again as a general. Leia was always a fighter. To say that she reverted is wrong, because she never stopped fighting.
     
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  19. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Force Sensitive

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    You might think it would feel weird, but apparently there are a TON of people who wanted that. When Han shows up on the Falcon and says "Chewie, we're home" what was the reaction? Were people saying "Yuck!!!! It's like my grandfather is out there running around..." Nope. The room when bananas and the internet did as well. I don't want to see them running around like they were in IV, that would be silly. But they could easily have had them do SOMETHING. Anything. Make a contribution. Instead they did what they did.

    The problem is, I think, fans don't need to see how these guys respond to "brokeness." We've seen them respond. We've seen them grow. Why do I need to see Luke respond to brokenness when I've seen him grow as a character already? Or at least that is what I think many fans were upset about.

    As for Leia, we will have to agree to disagree. They say they went back to what they knew. They reverted back to the person(s) they were in episode IV. This is essentially the same character as 40 years ago, except she is older and has a different title. Han is back to being the same old Han he was in 1977. Just older and slower. This is why I say they should have used the old character to serve the same function as Yoda and Mace in the prequel trilogy. Have Luke do something cool. Something to quench that thirst that many (although not I) had. If they weren't' going to do this then I'd have advised they take George's treatments and make them, but no one asked me. LOL

    As for Logan (I can't respond to some of those other examples as I'm not familiar with them): It was done right. I love Wolverine and the X-Men, and I was in no way upset that they gave us world-weary Logan. I thought it was done well. It was well written. I can't say the same for sequel trilogy. I mean, and this isn't the place to argue it, but we are now, after episode IX right back where we were after episode VI. So what was the point?

    To bring this back to the topic at hand, the nu-canon is almost entirely ignored/used to fill in the gaps in the films and thus almost useless. The stories can't do much because they can't have any big reveals. Why do I need to read the book Rise of the Resistance? I know it's not going to have any significant changes. No one significant will/can die. The EU on the other had, mainly in the aftermath of VI, that was not the case. It felt relevant and important because you didn't know if someone important might die (like Chewie). But of course this is my opinion. I'm probably full of crap. LMAO
     
  20. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel Official

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    I agree with you on this but I've just accepted the fact that we're 30 years too late for a proper ST. It should of been done instead of the PT. It's easier to tell a story with a 30 year old Luke than a 65+ year old Luke.
     
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