Cantina Members TROS Reactions (Spoilers free)

Since this thread was bumped, I figured I'd give my thoughts some 8 months later because they have changed quite a bit. On first viewing in the theater I was pretty negative overall, and on second viewing I was even more negative. It genuinely turned me off a bit from Star Wars as a whole. I remember posting a status on here, something along the lines of, "I think TROS is starting to grown on me" maybe a week or two after it released but that was a lie. I was trying to force myself to like the parts I didn't like, and to like the parts that I did like more. Then the DOTF script somehow made its way online and I found myself even more angry with the film, wishing we could have gotten DOTF instead, even though that too in my opinion was far from perfect, especially in the latter third. Couple all of this with the fact that I wasn't very keen on The Mandalorian and I was very disenchanted with the state of Star Wars...

But then the Blu-Ray released.

My third watch was okay, my fourth that I did a couple weeks later was about the same. I checked out the extras, specifically the making of documentary and that didn't necessarily make me like it more, but it made me appreciate it more. I watched it a fifth time, and whether or not the documentary had anything to do with it, I don't know, but I turned a corner with my fifth watch. I was still nowhere ready to sing its praises but it was the first time I was able to finish the film and feel something other than anger or emptiness.

THEN I did a 1-9 marathon.

I promise we WILL get to my thoughts on TROS, but it's important that I mention all of this first because it all kind of connects. I've never been a prequel lover, I've never even been a, "Well I appreciate the story told in the prequels" type of person. My knowledge of the films, especially TPM is that of a casual at best. I know far more about the makings of the films than I do about the films themselves. If my life was on the line and I could save it by describing the full plot of the first movie, I would probably be a goner. Anyway, after wanting to do it for months but putting it off, I finally sat down and over the course of a few days watched every movie in the Skywalker Saga, from The Phantom Menace to The Rise of Skywalker.

And I loved it. ALL of it.

I don't know if it was because I was finally able to see this 40+ year old story from beginning to end in it's entirety or if something that previously hadn't clicked with me finally did, but it was an incredible experience. I no longer dislike The Phantom Menace, I no longer dislike The Rise of Skywalker. I don't really look at these films as separate entities anymore, like I have done for all my life. Prequels, Sequels, Originals, it's all just Star Wars now.

OK but finally, The Rise of Skywalker.

I still have my problems with the film as a film, I do think the editing and pace is a detriment and lessens the impact of certain things for the viewer. But when you isolate the story, I think it's up there with some of the best Star Wars has ever told. As I was going through my marathon, certain things hit me such as the similarities in the stories and identities of Rey and Leia. Of course it goes without saying that none of this is objective and it's all completely my opinion but I began realizing that TROS is pretty much exactly what it needed to be, and if it was anything else it would be an abandonment of what the Saga has been for the past 40+ years: a story of family and strong relationships. It's been an absolute whirlwind, but I can finally say I love TROS.

Also despite my problems with the editing I have to give a shoutout to the people who made the film. You had perhaps the most unenviable task in the history of movies and yet you were able to pull it off. In particular I want to give a special shoutout to JJ, (obviously) Dan Mindel and Paul Inglis for crafting the look of the film. Since its release I've been of the opinion that The Last Jedi is the best looking Star Wars film but this rivals it.

 

I still have my problems with the film as a film, I do think the editing and pace is a detriment and lessens the impact of certain things for the viewer. But when you isolate the story, I think it's up there with some of the best Star Wars has ever told. As I was going through my marathon, certain things hit me such as the similarities in the stories and identities of Rey and Leia. Of course it goes without saying that none of this is objective and it's all completely my opinion but I began realizing that TROS is pretty much exactly what it needed to be, and if it was anything else it would be an abandonment of what the Saga has been for the past 40+ years: a story of family and strong relationships. It's been an absolute whirlwind, but I can finally say I love TROS.

Return is slow at parts and rushed near the end, imo. To be frank, Star Wars has always been fast-paced. In fact this was a complaint, I believe with the first film, or it was at least recognized at a fast-paced film. Maybe one day they'll call The Rise of Skywalker a slow film, lol.

 

So, I just now realized that I'm probably one of the last SW fans on earth to realize that there is no director commentary for the TROS home release.

It's a real shame because in the wee hours last night, at about half past insomnia o'clock, I decided to finally watch TLJ with the commentary track. And it was actually a great experience. TLJ, much like TROS, took some time to grow on me, and listening to Rian's commentary I got a much greater appreciation for the respect and care with which he approached Episode 8. The flaws are still there, and I still don't cotton to some of the choices he made, but overall I find myself liking the film even more now for having watched it with the commentary on (and again, I wasn't initially too crazy about TLJ.)

So, of course, I then went to check out TROS with its commentary track on, since that was another one that I didn't like at first. (In fact, I hated it on my first viewing.) And lo and behold, there isn't one. I don't know if JJ just couldn't be bothered to record one, or if he did but LucasMouse didn't include it for some odd reason, but... damn! Regardless of how well the film went over with audiences, the last film of the Skywalker saga should have a director's commentary to go with it, at least IMHO.

Aw well...

 

I have yet to purchase TROS for this very reason... I'm waiting, holding out hope for a home release with a commentary trakc.

 

Rewatched TROS again the other night (we were in a Star Warsy mood after Mando).

It's just... it sometimes comes so close to greatness. I'm sure I'm not treading new ground here, but the dagger plot could've been removed.

Really, what info do the heroes even get from it? It's narrowed down to a planet (which, given the end of ROTJ, they could've probably figured out on their own) and the dagger helps identify where the holocron is hidden (which again... it's the Throne Room. Common sense could've sussed that out). And then the holocron is destroyed, which is fine as a storytelling method but really just kinda twists the knife of how pointless this all was (especially since "failure" was a theme already in the previous film, in some similar ways).

So without that, you have at least good 45 minutes to half an hour (maybe keeping one of those Zoom saber battles but re-contextualized) where some of the film's weaker points could be more fleshed out.

I'm also still of the mind that if there were ever Lucas-style edits to this film, this would do a lot of good:

 

Big agree.
I think my biggest issues with the film germinate from this.
It gives nothing any time to breathe or grow. It's just endless boom boom boom action jumping around.
and a lot of that is just moving the dagger plot because it's pointless and boring but if you have it coated in action and rapid cuts and movement it doesn't seem like it as much.
If they cut that out, built on Ren's turmoil again. Did more to set up the reveals it would have worked a lot better.

 

Not to mention giving Rose something to do, having the Knights of Ren do something important, avoid a whole series of memeable death fakeouts, etc.


Speaking of the KOR-

I really feel like we should've had a Witch King in the mix. What I mean is a single Knight of Ren (other than Kylo) who had a personality and was slightly differentiated from the rest. Obviously we couldn't get an expose on all of them, but by fleshing out one as a lieutenant then the whole group benefits from feeling more planned.

And Star Wars has done this- think Boba as an ambassador of the bounty hunters, or Mace Windu for the non -OT jedi.

 

It's a hard watch for me, and makes me wish the sequel trilogy didn't exist.

Before watching TROS, I quite liked TFA and loved about 3/4 of TLJ, but TROS shows that there was very little planning put into the story of these films and the few great ideas which were there in TFA became completely irrelevant or non-existent.

I just can't count it as part of my head-canon.

 

This is the correct answer. He didn't even want to record a director's commentary for TFA, and reluctantly did so for the TFA 3D release a year later.

Not to mention Disney have been shown to avoid releasing anything that could potentially damage their brand, compared to Lucas who was completely transparent in the BTS of his films. If we got one for TROS, it'd be the most mundane and generic commentary, where Abrams would gloss over the fact that he was constantly rewriting and reshooting parts of the film. Terrio (co-writer) and Brandon (editor) have been very open about the film's path to release, but Abrams has kept his lips shut.

 

It all plays into who JJ is as a writer/director.
he's all setup no finish.
And he may be one of the best setup men since Lucas himself.

He thrives on that mystery and no real answers and the whole dagger plot feels like a distraction from answers

 

Yeah watching RJ's commentary went a long way in me wanting RJ back for his personal Star Wars trilogy. Like with you, I don't think the commentary really fixed any of the problems I had with the movie, as RJ tended to talk more about the process of filming the scene being shown than his writing choices;. But what did bleed through was his sheer love for Star Wars and his love for filming. And those two things were enough for me.

I have yet to buy TROS because it doesn't have that commentary.

Yeah, I try to be a "Journey Before Destination" guy in the stories I consume. But boy howdy can a weird (or even just controversial) ending ruin a series!

Like how many probably feel about the PT, going forward, we have to accept the good with the bad. We can't let it die or kill it as Kylo wanted. We need to look at it - the good, the bad, the shameful - and figure out the best steps forward.

 

@Flyboy , ^^^ This is one of my favorite posts EVER in the Cantina!!! BRAVO!!!

 

That's a good point. But the trio would not have known that. Because Luke had been in search of the Wayfinder himself prior to them, presumably he must have searched the destroyer and come up dry. The novelization (?) mentions that the vault opened for Rey because of some Sith related magic that recognized her bloodline.

 

I applaud those that say this, rather than spend huge amounts of time, trying to convince others to think as they do, and try their best to ruin what they love.

A good friend also became an ex Star Wars fan and he shared the same sentiments with me. He gave me all his Star Wars merchandise that he could not sell on eBay, and he became a huge LOTR fan.

I remember when the Clone Wars animate film came out, he called me and asked me if I saw it. I told him I had not because the critics say its awful.

He said you are a Star Wars fan, don't listen to the critics, go out and see it for yourself. I eventually did and I did enjoy it. Its not the best Star Wars animated film but I like allot of it.

Anywho, ROTS got him excited for Star Wars again. There is plenty of Star Wars to love, and if you dislike some, that is fine too.

 

TROS is the only SW film I can't watch again, believe me I've tried. Regarding TLJ, yes RJ's commentary was excellent, especially how he explained the decisions Luke had made to deliberately stay out of the conflict, and his choice was anything but cowardice as many saw it as.

I really wish RJ had directed TROS.

 

As far as Luke in TLJ, we are all human, at times our faith falters, and we need to recover our faith in what we believe, I expected Luke to take up the mantle, and train Rey as Yoda had trained him, RJ as a storyteller felt there should be a defining reason why Luke was on that island, and for him, that's the route he felt was right.

Obi-Wan would not have taken that route, he answered the call when asked, Luke is not a Jedi like that of OB1. Luke was brought into the fold differently. For me, TLJ is such a strong film. Its no where near perfect like my favorite OT films but its a great addition to the Star Wars mythos.

Films are subjective, we all view and interpret them differently and , what I may like other might dislike. If I dislike a film I avoid it at all cost, but that is how I deal with it.

If RJ had directed the 3rd film in the sequel trilogy it would have been more coherent. It would not have felt like a retcon IMHO. I also believe that if CT had also directed the 3rd installment it would have been better as well (maybe); however, JJ took up the mantle and here we are. I've seen TROS 4x in the theater, and I own a copy, and I also have problems watching it at times at home, but there are some redeeming parts.

 

I felt the same way about IK & RotJ.

Also, anyone remember:

"You WANT this...." ​