1. Due to the increased amount of spam bots on the forum, we are strengthening our defenses. You may experience a CAPTCHA challenge from time to time.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

Case for Snoke

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by McDiarmid, Apr 26, 2016.

?

If Snoke is based on Pablo Hidalgo's character described here, will you be satissfied?

Poll closed Apr 26, 2021.
  1. Yes 100%

    50.0%
  2. 50/50

    20.8%
  3. NO

    18.8%
  4. Plagueis will never be forgotten

    20.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2015
    Posts:
    1,265
    Likes Received:
    1,307
    Trophy Points:
    7,967
    Credits:
    3,318
    Ratings:
    +2,528 / 253 / -116
    The good news if Snoke turns out to not be Dark Plagueis is that Darth Plaqueis can always come back into the franchise at some point. The story of Plagueis is that he was powerful enough to save himself from death so he can still be out there somewhere while Snoke is out there too.

    Snoke really need to be Plagueis though for continuity with Lucas's Star Wars.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  2. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens Gatekeeper & Avatar Maker

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Posts:
    2,878
    Likes Received:
    28,288
    Trophy Points:
    154,367
    Credits:
    18,268
    Ratings:
    +32,050 / 130 / -50
    THIS.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Wise Wise x 1
  3. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2015
    Posts:
    1,265
    Likes Received:
    1,307
    Trophy Points:
    7,967
    Credits:
    3,318
    Ratings:
    +2,528 / 253 / -116
    Exactly. Pablo can go make a Star Wars story if he likes but STAR WARS need to be about Sith, Jedi, Skywalker, Palatine, Solo, R2, C3PO etc... not some contrived villain. Sure you can bring in new but only to compliment the Original. Otherwise it is not the same thing, may as well invent a new story all together. Another reason Rey need to be a Palpatine descendant or a Skywalker. I can live with Finn being totally new but not the main characters.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
  4. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2015
    Posts:
    16,794
    Likes Received:
    15,181
    Trophy Points:
    149,777
    Credits:
    20,228
    Ratings:
    +26,536 / 845 / -253
    You know that's one argument I've never understood because Lucas has clearly said in EOTS that Snoke is dead and we have no idea that or if he would have included a Snoke-like figure in his certain of the sequel trilogy .
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
  5. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Posts:
    3,481
    Likes Received:
    3,898
    Trophy Points:
    12,517
    Credits:
    6,786
    Ratings:
    +7,941 / 410 / -137
    That is my whish to.

    But we must take Reality. And this thread gives you explanation why is Plagueis put aside.

    Because Pablo's character was pushed trough by, let me guess......by Pablo.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  6. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens Gatekeeper & Avatar Maker

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Posts:
    2,878
    Likes Received:
    28,288
    Trophy Points:
    154,367
    Credits:
    18,268
    Ratings:
    +32,050 / 130 / -50
    Lucas brought Maul back for a reason, the worst move of the PT fixed by a cartoon, but a billion times better than Snoke as Cronal and not Plagueis. The dumbest thing Pablo said was Snoke is Snoke, and the smartest. Snoke is a two bit, part time, back ground Jaxxon-esque character. Only Plagueis can save him from being forever known as the not darth, that George never would have used.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 28, 2016, Original Post Date: Apr 28, 2016 ---
    #GEORGEHATESSNOKE
     
    • Hopeful Hopeful x 1
  7. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2015
    Posts:
    16,794
    Likes Received:
    15,181
    Trophy Points:
    149,777
    Credits:
    20,228
    Ratings:
    +26,536 / 845 / -253
    ...who's Cronal?
     
  8. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Posts:
    3,481
    Likes Received:
    3,898
    Trophy Points:
    12,517
    Credits:
    6,786
    Ratings:
    +7,941 / 410 / -137
    Ironic isn't it. He was in front of our nose, but to obscure to be even considered.

    His story served as a template for Snoke.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2015
    Posts:
    16,794
    Likes Received:
    15,181
    Trophy Points:
    149,777
    Credits:
    20,228
    Ratings:
    +26,536 / 845 / -253
    I'm still a bit confused regarding him and the true purpose to incorporate him .
     
  10. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Posts:
    3,481
    Likes Received:
    3,898
    Trophy Points:
    12,517
    Credits:
    6,786
    Ratings:
    +7,941 / 410 / -137
    This are some of the elements from Cronal character that fit in what we know about Snoke and new Canon:
    For what I will wrote one must be familiar with new Canon novels ("Aftermath, some elements known from upcoming "Bloodline" novel etc..) not just the Film.

    1.His body is damaged to the point of not been recognizable as human --Dark side toll.
    2.He knows in details what hapened during the rise and fall of Empire(he was inside Empire's ranks !)
    3.He has Dark side knowledge obtained by dwelling into sorcery of Dark.
    4.He formed cult: Sorcerers of Rhand (ever heard about Ren?)
    5.He had students within cult of Rhand (ever heard of Ren? sory I said that)
    6.He has taken command of the remnants of Empire in only plausible way, he was already an high ranking officer.
    7.Lea knows him, as he had his activity in the Imperial Senat once .
    9.He died prior to battle of Endor, but resurected ( event mentioned in Aftermath!!!!!)
    10.In the Aftermath ,under his rank of fleet admiral (anindentified fleet admiral) orders retreat of the Empire into Unknown regions of the galaxy, from where First order strikes in episode VII.
    12. In the meantime he takes propaganda actions and his links in the Senate, creates instability in New Republic ( Aftermath, excerpts from upcoming canon novel Bloodline)
    11. He clears remnants of the Empire from "weak elements", mentioned for Cronal, mentioned in Aftermath, and obvious for Snoke.
    12. He creates New empire (cronal), Snoke creates First Order.
    13. He finds way to construct a weapon that will destroy entire star systems.
    14. Kronal is always on the move ( later uses mobile medical chamber that suports his fragile body), Snoke has mobile comand.

    Original post edited!
     
    #90 McDiarmid, Apr 28, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
    • Like Like x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. General_Tarkin

    General_Tarkin Rebel General

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Posts:
    736
    Likes Received:
    1,250
    Trophy Points:
    4,842
    Credits:
    1,978
    Ratings:
    +1,880 / 74 / -32
    I also thought about that. Everything which was told about TFA should be taken with a grain of salt. The rumours of Snoke initially considered to be a woman or something like a ,,marbel statue appearance" could've easely been only deceptions from the Plagueis romours. Although this ,,Cronal" theory is the best out since the release of TFA, I still doubt that Ben's character from R1 will turn out to be Snoke. Snoke has only 4 fingers on his alien-like hands, so either the dark distorted his appearance to look like a completly other species or he is just simply not a human (which is more likely). Or something very squishy, like he was eventually resurrected or transformed into an alien body, or something like that...
     
    #91 General_Tarkin, Apr 28, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
    • Like Like x 3
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  12. General_Tarkin

    General_Tarkin Rebel General

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Posts:
    736
    Likes Received:
    1,250
    Trophy Points:
    4,842
    Credits:
    1,978
    Ratings:
    +1,880 / 74 / -32
    This isnt necessarily true about TFA. If you know the production history of the movie you should know that in the original script of Michael Arndt, Rey was supposed to meet Luke at one point. Now that would've been a completly different movie and dosent support the claim that ,,everything was coordinated in advance".
    In fact JJ and Kasdan had suprisingly big control over this movie.
    Considering the new trilogy wanted to differ itself almost completly from the prequels and the old EU, it makes really no obligation for them to have Plagueis as main villain. I think JJ and Kasdan explored the idea of the main villain beeing new character, and then they might've throwed in the Plagueis idea. But I doubt everything was stone-carved about this trilogy in advance. They might've wanted to wait until the fan reactions before they continue the story and the backstory of the characters (happened many times before in Hollywood). Considering there has been rewrites of ep VIII, that must've happened.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
  13. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Posts:
    3,481
    Likes Received:
    3,898
    Trophy Points:
    12,517
    Credits:
    6,786
    Ratings:
    +7,941 / 410 / -137
    d
    As it seems now, at least from my point of view, entire Disney/Lucasarts machinery has been set in motion in direction of Snoke being "new character". We have documented extreme resemblance of entire story with old obscure but existant Cronal character, which is not canon just as Jacen Solo is not canon but is used as a template for Kylo Ren.

    Here is also interconected criticaly important canon novel "Aftermath" which is overlooked by many and it must not be overlooked. Aftermath is designed to make foundations for new Canon- a Journey to Force Awakes project. In the Aftermath we have developments that are already describing nucleus of the Formation of the First Order by the "unindentified fleet admiral", also known in guise as "the Operator."....
    That same character(unindentidfied admiral, "Operator") in this same canon book Aftermath has been told to died before Endor, considered dead by the Imperial command, and than has returned after Endor dissaster, in same Aftermath, causing shock amongst Imperial generals !!! (Imperial admirals obviously had agenda with him before, as he is radical).

    Unfortunately, changing direction into Plagueis at this point seems to me is not realistic.Except if they put Plagueis returns disguised as this unindentified admiral?
    Plagueis who will create and take control of tight militaristic regime (First Order) is overstretched idea now it appears. Snoke must have been already a memeber of Imperial command staf ( commander of Imperial secret service in a rank of fleet admiral, it appears) and this is most plausible explanation.

    one of the most important facts:
    We misinterpreted Snoke's wounds!

    We thought those are wounds inflicted by outside Force (Palps...).which was argument for Plagueis.
    In fact this is a damage of the body caused by Dark side sorcery, it is a toll he has taken, a price he paid in order to get his power of the Dark side.

    I repeat, all of this is to much Disney and I repeat I believe it was not optimal decision by fillmaker,Plagueis will be better, bigger, mythical, ... but this is as it is.
     
    #93 McDiarmid, Apr 28, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
    • Like Like x 3
  14. Yordis

    Yordis Rebel Commander

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2014
    Posts:
    407
    Likes Received:
    363
    Trophy Points:
    2,512
    Credits:
    1,016
    Ratings:
    +622 / 15 / -2
    Some Problems with the Cronal Theory:
    -Does not account for Opera Scene music
    -Snoke appreciates both Light and Dark, Cronal likes only the Dark

    A Problem with the Operator Theory:
    -Operator disliked the structure of the Empire, Snoke thought it was fine except for Vader's sentiment
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Posts:
    3,481
    Likes Received:
    3,898
    Trophy Points:
    12,517
    Credits:
    6,786
    Ratings:
    +7,941 / 410 / -137
    Personaly I never considered "Snoke music" as a particulary significant argument. Its ambiental music depicting darkness, Snoke even if not Plagueis can be shrouded in such music. (also its similar tone but not same music).

    Snoke and Light? its questionable, we Know Kylo fears Snoke will feel his pull to the Light.
    Snoke could admire Kylo's complex being though, as Snoke didnt came to its power by perfect genes but by its dive into pure Darkness later in life, which came at price, consumed his body. Kylo is strong and handsome ( I think girls agree...btw are here any girls?) sice he has balanced power he got by its birth.

    Operator is Empire "patriot" ,he loves Empire and hates those who made this massive machine inefficient. He just wants cold efficiency. First Order controled by Snoke is such, much more efficient than Empire.
     
    #95 McDiarmid, Apr 28, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
    • Like Like x 2
    • Wise Wise x 1
  16. Yordis

    Yordis Rebel Commander

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2014
    Posts:
    407
    Likes Received:
    363
    Trophy Points:
    2,512
    Credits:
    1,016
    Ratings:
    +622 / 15 / -2
    The difference is that Snoke explicitly had no problems with the Empire's efficiency. It is a different point of view. He does not believe that the Empire's problem was being inefficient.
    There is more similarity beyond just ambience:

    And besides, the parts of the track that are similar are both 2:03 long in both RotS and TFA. Hardly a coincidence.
    But Cronal despised his own child for being brought into creation, seeing it as an act of Light. If Snoke were so similar to Cronal, he would despise the Light that Kylo came from, and would not even consider him as a student.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Posts:
    3,481
    Likes Received:
    3,898
    Trophy Points:
    12,517
    Credits:
    6,786
    Ratings:
    +7,941 / 410 / -137
    But the First order though much smaller is much more efficient than the Empire, am I wrong if I say that its because Snoke wants this efficiency?

    In Pablo Hidalgo TFA visual dictionary it is nicely depicted that First Order is more efficient than the Empire in almost every aspect (organisation, command, training, equipment, ships, even psychology..) Its Snoke's .

    "This is how it must be. The Empire became this...ugly, inelegant machine. Crude and inefficient. We needed to be broken into pieces. We needed to get rid of those who want to see that old machine churning ineluctably forward. It's time for something better. Something new. An Empire worthy of the galaxy it will rule."
    ―The unindentified fleet admiral, the Operator--(Snoke)- Aftermath.----
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Yordis

    Yordis Rebel Commander

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2014
    Posts:
    407
    Likes Received:
    363
    Trophy Points:
    2,512
    Credits:
    1,016
    Ratings:
    +622 / 15 / -2
    I would rather say... it is a result of the Operator's efforts, and those of Hux Senior. By Snoke's own words, he did not find the old Empire's inefficiency an issue. Just Vader's sentiment.
     
    • Wise Wise x 1
  19. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Posts:
    3,481
    Likes Received:
    3,898
    Trophy Points:
    12,517
    Credits:
    6,786
    Ratings:
    +7,941 / 410 / -137
    Vader sentiment again is inefficiency...
     
    • Wise Wise x 1
  20. Yordis

    Yordis Rebel Commander

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2014
    Posts:
    407
    Likes Received:
    363
    Trophy Points:
    2,512
    Credits:
    1,016
    Ratings:
    +622 / 15 / -2
    ...It's always been apologetics. "It was neither poor strategy nor arrogance that brought down the empire. You know too well what did." These are the words of someone who did not have a problem with the old Empire. It is different from the Operator.

    I'll take it you agree with me on the other anti-Cronal points, then?
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 28, 2016, Original Post Date: Apr 28, 2016 ---
    In fact, this quote of Snoke's directly goes against your quote from the Operator. They are incompatible.
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...

Share This Page