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SPECULATION Clarification around snoke

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Callosbruh, Dec 18, 2015.

  1. Rasec

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    You make sense but not at the same time. how does Snoke pull Ben to the darkside unless he pulled a palpatine? At such a time Snoke wouldve not been the leader fof the first order bcuz obviously they wouldve not allowed Ben to get close Snoke. Snoke, much like Palpatine, wouldve had to b close to Ben and in a position to lure him to the dark side. So yes ofcourse they know Snoke but not bcuz at the time he was the leader of the new order.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 23, 2015 ---
    Yes Kylo does all of those things but an untrained Rey whoops his butt. Snoke clearly says his training has yet to be completed. Snoke hasnt failed but he obviously hasnt succeeded either.
     
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  2. asddsaasddsa

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    First the Kylo part. I have no idea why people have such an issue with Rey getting the best of him AFTER calming down and using the force. Before that moment Kylo _destroyed_ everyone who faced him. Kylo destroyed Finn and probably the only reason Rey didn't get cut down was that Kylo wanted to teach her (and ofc obviously the storyline =) ). Keep in mind that Kylo had been shot to the stomach with a weapon that normally hurled people back like ragdolls. His saber hand was also hit in the PREVIOUS fight. Basically he was fatigued and a mess and he STILL manhandled Rey up to that point when Rey leveled the playfield via the force. Also have to add that on Jakku it was already obvious that Rey is not a stranger to close combat.

    What comes to Ben. We cant say how stuff went down and I don't really see a problem in Snoke being the leader at the time of Ben's slip to the darkside. The mistake I think you're doing is to only think of path's shown before. I recall reading that Knights of Ren were already around the time Ben was been trained by Luke. Let's speculate that Snoke used them as a tool in all this. Even tho nothing really rules out that Snoke could've done something in flesh/force vision. So here we go.

    As we saw in the movie, items that play a big part of a force wielder are imbued with the force (Luke's saber). Now there's another item shown in the movie too. Vader's mask. As we know Kylo asked it to show him the darkness. So it's likely to have done something similar to Kylo as Luke's saber did to Rey. Awaken the Darkness in him instead of the Light. We heard Yoda/Kenobi in Rey's vision. Nothing rules out that Kylo couldn't had the Emperor/Vader or even Snoke influence him through the vision(s). How did Kylo and the helmet meet? Knights of Ren could've introduced it to him (more unlikely but plausible) or just through curiosity. I'm sure nothing stopped him going to Endor, but I think it's more likely that Luke had the helmet as a thing to remember his father by.
    Also we know that in training the Jedi trainees have to face their worst fears and every time we've seen this happen they've been faced with the dark side of the force. This being another conduit for the dark side to affect them.

    Anyways it's all speculation and I'm sure we'll get wiser if not before VIII then at least once we're watching it :)
    Just don't be too hasty to rule things out (yoda)
     
    #22 asddsaasddsa, Dec 23, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2015
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  3. JJMD

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    Snoke is Revan
     
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  4. DarthHendrix

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    I've wondered if Snoke's ability to tempt Kylo stems from him being in a position of power within Luke's new Jedi Council, (or maybe simply Jedi Order), and was close to him during his early training, planting seeds of curiosity about the dark side.
     
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  5. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    So Snokes a former Jedi...
     
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  6. Voxx

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  7. DarthHendrix

    DarthHendrix Rebelscum

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    why the ellipses? It doesn't necessarily mean he was a Jedi, he could have simply posed as one. Just as Palpatine posed as the Supreme Chancellor. While yes, they are going through the motions and technically fulfilling their duties of being a jedi/the chancellor, it's only to be so close to destroy them.
     
  8. AstromechRecords

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    T
    Hats really interesting, except that, if Snoke is a human, no human could realistically look like that after an encounter with Vader. Also, wouldn't Vader just simply kill the Sith out of him? Vader himself is scared of losing his powers ...
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 23, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 23, 2015 ---
    Well because I'm not too sure if I AM agreeing or not, although it's very interesting .
     
  9. Voxx

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    You must have missed the part about his lightsaber backfiring on him scarring his face.
     
  10. AstromechRecords

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    Oh no I read that part, that part also sounded, to me, a bit hard to believe that he wouldn't instantly die as literal PLASMA is falling back into him, similarly to how lava falling on Anyone would kill them instantly, fs or otherwise, in my opinion .
     
  11. Jerec

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    I fear Snoke is the Inquisitor from Rebels, the first one. That would explain why he's damaged, how he could have rebuilt The First Order and why he's trained in the dark side...
     
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    I hadn't heard this one yet! Bravo.
     
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  13. Jedi MD

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    What we do know from the movie about Snoke is that he had access to Ben at an early age and started seducing Ben at that time. What we have yet to find out is what capacity Snoke was in at that time. I do not believe he was Supreme Leader of the First Order at that time. His backstory is one that I am very intrigued about and we will likely learn more in VIII
     
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  14. DarkLordOfThe5ith

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    1. Qui gon jinn thought some other kid was also the chosen one. The kid came with qui gon as he interacted with the foce priestesses. Then qui gon found anakin and abandoned this other kid. Qui gon dies, The other kid would investigate the whole force ghost thing that he saw qui gon try. Qui gon still talked to him as a ghost and trained him. He would become known as snoke and betrayed qui gon because qui gon abandoned him for Anakin long ago. What better way to get back than to twist a skywalker (aka ben solo) and screw the family legacy.

    2. Darth sidious used plagueis' knowledge and manipulatd midiclorians to create life. That is how snoke was born. I hope mother talzin didnt do it back in the day. She is no sith.

    3. Ventress' apprentice is snoke. Rebels writers will love this

    4. The force birthed anakin and snoke at the same time. Balance.

    5. He is revan, or darth bane, or the ghost/spirit of exar kun. Yup, exar kun. I mean the EU was on yavin4. Not canon, but we all know who is on yavin4. This however is a plot in the EU.

    6. His story is like darth bane. Just a dude. Sought out holocrons, self realized true power, the sith spirits/ghosts reached out to him. Sithari

    7. Snoke is the actual dark side personified.

    Side notes: (Would love if qui gon "got" the idea of force ghost from him and understanding of cosmic and living force). A. Or maybe He could be created to fill the void of the father, son, daughter all dead on mortis. Anakin knew hey were dead and never took his thrown. Light side fail. Dark side steps in. B. or a force priestess gone rogue. C. Or the rule of two had a back up plan. They worked on combining spirits to reach out to the real world as dead souls through the dark side. D. Maybe snoke is only an illusion/hologram of the dark side created by a computer/A.I. Programmed by sidious as a back up plan to the rule of two.

    8. Snoke is darth plaqueis the wise. Ghost, alive, or back from the dead.
     
  15. porkozone

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    This is the best breakdown of this situation I've read thus far. Bravo, and agree on all counts.

    People mix up the difference in being strong in the force naturally and bing trained in using the force most effectively. The training always comes down to control:
    • for the Light: remain calm and suppress emotions so they don't get out of hand - let the force FLOW through them and take over, allowing them to do things they otherwise would not attempt.
    • for the Dark: using your emotions (and the power that provides) to control the Force to get exactly what you want, but also without letting them get out of hand.
    So both Kylo and Rey are very strong in the force naturally, which would allow for them to do many remarkable feats, if and when they access them in the way their version of the Force allows.

    Kylo is pretty weak in his control while utilizing the force - he has a lot of rough edges and outbursts (which means his training in the ways of controlling the Dark Side is not fully realized). Nothing about this means he cannot do a LOT with the Force, it just means he has moments of weakness due to his reckless style - that weakness only showing up against someone of equal Force ability, which he had little experience with. As a comparison, Anakin was already extremely powerful in the Dark Side by the end of ROTS, but he did not have the control required to effectively channel his emotions when facing Obi Wan, which led to his defeat.

    Rey, however, apparently also has a natural ability to remain calm - so even though she is very new to the Force, her innate ability to allow the Force to flow through her allows everything else in her lack of training to not matter, especially against a reckless, injured opponent. As a comparison, whenever Luke actually allowed himself to stay calm and let the Force "just happen" in ANH and ESB, he did things easily he had not attempted before (he was just really bad at letting go).

    It came down to Kylo's reckless style, his injuries and an ill-advised attempt to turn Rey, vs Rey's ability to "let it flow" when given the opportunity.
     
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  16. Darth Board

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    Well, he does kinda look like a burned and maimed Mace Windu and I can't imagine him being the biggest fan of the Skywalkers. Or perhaps the somewhat feminine and burned look is a clue and the Supreme leader is really aSNOKa TANo.
     
    #36 Darth Board, Jan 8, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2016
  17. AstromechRecords

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    I just find it odd that, if Snoke is Plageuis, he created Anakin ---and in essence Luke Skywalker--- , then why couldn't he just use the force to simply destroy Luke Skywalker IF he is truly Plageuis ?
     
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    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Darth Board

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    I can't see him being Vader, it would be too damaging to the OT. Though, if he isn't an entirely new character, I do think he'll likely have some sort of connection to Vader.

    So, I tend to narrow it down to force users who have supposedly died but whose deaths we never actually see: Darth Plagueis, The Grand Inquisitor, Darth Sidious, Darth Maul, Mace Windu.
     
  20. ChewiesDog

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    If he were the Grand Inquisitor wouldn't he obviously have those sharpened teeth? I really hope they don't go with anyone we know, other than Darth Plagueis or a throwback EU character that is ancient.
     
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