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SPECULATION Clarification around snoke

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Callosbruh, Dec 18, 2015.

  1. ParzivalKatarn

    ParzivalKatarn Rebelscum

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    I agree. maybe he learned by experience that teach your disciple almost everything you know is a very bad idea? ;)
    (emperor)
     
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  2. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I was doing my daily research into why Snoke is actually Darth Plagueis and something came to me - fear not, this isn't about Plagueis, but rather Snoke's vulnerability.

    In Aftermath it is said that Palpatine sensed that the source of the Dark Side is somewhere in the far reaches of the galaxy. Snoke himself is said to now be on a "mobile command centre". Yet in TFA we see him on what looks like a stone throne - not something you'd expect to find on a ship, indicating that he has stopped off somewhere!

    What is also known is that Snoke appeared on the scene very soon after the events of ROTJ (he watched Kylo from a very young age). In other words, he came on the scene after the Force was brought into balance.

    So this is my theory:

    Snoke, whoever he may turn out to be, was badly injured and required the power of the Dark Side to sustain his life. As we know, there are places within the galaxy that are strong with the Dark Side. Could it be that Snoke resided in a place that had this Dark Side aura, which Sidious sensed? This kept him alive, that was until Vader destroyed the last Sith and balance was restored. Did this diminish the strength of the Dark Side aura where Snoke resided?

    After this, Snoke has to do two things to survive:

    1. Unbalance the Force. He does this by taking over the FO and continuing the galactic war. And he creates an order of Dark Side users that includes the grandson of Darth Vader. With their help he can spread the Dark Side across the galaxy and thus live off of its power.

    2. Continually find places that are strong with the Dark Side - hence his mobile command centre. The architecture of his stone throne is similar to the interior of the evil cave on Dagobah (as is the lighting) - a place strong with the Dark Side. We also know that there was a concept art meeting where this cave was discussed (see top left):

    star_wars_41685.jpg

    This is why Snoke fears Luke and the Jedi so much. The Jedi bring balance by destroying those that use the Dark Side and thus diminish the evil that Snoke lives off. What's more, Anakin Skywalker was prophesised to bring balance and he did just that. He was the chosen one. Perhaps Snoke fears this bloodline might do the same again? He turns Kylo to prevent him doing it but also so he can hold Luke back (Luke wouldn't kill his nephew). Then he plans to kill Luke and Kylo - and probably take on someone like Rey as his apprentice.

    Remember, the balance is disturbed by the use of the Dark Side. You don't imbalance the Force by just calling yourself a Sith or whatever. This would explain why Snoke could live as the prophesy was fulfilled. But for him the restoration of the balance of the Force was catastrophic. This is why he perhaps decided to get involved in the galactic conflict or perhaps it coincided with his plan to do so anyway (once Sidious is dead).
     
    #42 master_shaitan, Jan 10, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2016
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  3. ITG

    ITG Force Sensitive

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    So, not only was Plagueis...I mean "Snoke" mentioned in the PT, but we actually see where he has been residing, when watching the OT. It explains an awful lot and ties things together beautifully.
     
  4. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Any takers on this theory?! Anyone?!

    And I thought I had just cracked the great mystery. :confused:
     
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  5. Bosc

    Bosc Force Attuned

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    This is great thinking and it all holds together. Great job! I don't know if it'll be true or not, but you just came up with a way for me to be ok with the idea that the Force is out of balance a mere 30 years after ROTJ.
     
  6. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Glad you think so!

    I think an issue for some people in regard to the prophesy is that it is seen as the be all and end all. But for me, it was a just a prophesy made about one moment in time. Yes it was an important prophesy and yes it came true. And as it was at the heart of the saga which was essentially the story of the chosen one, it was hard to see passed the prophesy being fulfilled and a new story emerging.

    However, I just see it as a vision some ancient Force user had about the Dark Times ahead and the chosen one who would restore balance. It was referring to the evil doers of the time, the Sith (Sidious & Vader), being destroyed and their overriding darkness being lifted from the galaxy. The prophesy didn't say that the chosen one would destroy all Dark Side users for all of time. It was just referring to one event in time. The destruction of the ruling Sith who had plagued the galaxy with evil.

    It just can't be a coincidence that a new threat (who looks and is vulnerable) emerged just after balance was restored and has seemingly worked feverishly to unbalance it. It is also telling to me that Snoke is hell bent on destroying Luke - putting that above taking on the Republic and Resistance. For example, Hux suggests they use the weapon on the Republic - surely a tactic that Snoke would've wanted from the beginning? Instead, it's all a ploy to find Luke. The only reason for this is that Luke, as Snoke says, will resurrect the Jedi Order. He fears this because the Jedi's mission is to restore balance - which is what Snoke fears most.

    It strikes me that something pulled Snoke from the far reaches of space into the galactic arena.
    There has to be some relevance in him being in a mobile command centre, going all out to find and destroy Luke and emerging after balance was restored.

    I think it could be a mixture of two things.
    The power void left by Sidious' death
    +
    The balance in the Force diminishing the Dark Side and requiring Snoke to unbalance it quickly to keep himself alive.
     
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  7. ITG

    ITG Force Sensitive

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    How hard is it not to type P-L-A-G-U-E-I-S when making these posts?! I'm 100% into this theory!
     
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  8. thetophus

    thetophus Rebelscum

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    It certainly gives more credibility to the Snoke = Plagueis theory.
     
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  9. Mosley909

    Mosley909 Rebel Official

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    i dont hink its goin to be anything this complicated.... this sort of plot would take quite a lot of explanation..... honestly i expect whatever or whoever snoke is to be straight forwarded enough that it can be explained in a line or two of dialogue.
     
  10. Darth Plagueis is Snoke

    Darth Plagueis is Snoke Clone Commander

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    I'm here with ya!

    Plagueis, injured by Palpatine, retreats to the first of these places strong with the darkside, Gairm! There, he implements points 1 and 2 as pointed out by master shaitan, with the help of his first apprentice, Jedi Master Vonkhel.

    Check out Star Wars Insider 154. Check out THE END OF HISTORY and let me know what ya think
     
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  11. Imp.Sec.Ofc Phernaldo

    Imp.Sec.Ofc Phernaldo Rebel Trooper

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    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 12, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 12, 2016 ---
    I wonder if Snoke has ever been to Dagobah ?
     
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  12. Darth Plagueis is Snoke

    Darth Plagueis is Snoke Clone Commander

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    I would assume that he probably has indeed been to Dagobah. It stands to reason that Kylo Ren knows the basics of Luke's story, from either his training as a Jedi, or from family stories.Now that destroying Luke is his primary goal wouldn't he and Snoke go to the most obvious places that were strong in the force and were part of Luke's past? If I were Snoke or Kylo, Dagobah, Tattoine, Naboo, and Yavin 4 would be the first few planets I would look for him.

    Of course maybe Snoke is a real coward and just sent Kylo
     
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  13. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I can't see it needing much exosition tbh or at least, more than what has to come anyway.

    We need to know how Snoke got his injuries and why he remains vulnerable. We also need to know where he has been, what he was doing and why he has emerged after the fall of the Empire.

    That all needs explaining. The theory I suggest is a part of that explanation.

    I think Luke could be the one to explain this and maybe this links to why he has been away...
    "When my father restored the balance to the Force it weakened the Dark Side. Snoke lives off the darkness, without its power he is vulnerable...."
    "That's how he cheated death?"
    "Bingo, my baby girl!" :p
     
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  14. 77th

    77th Force Sensitive

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    I don't believe at all that Snoke would be Darth Plagueis, simply because Darth Plagueis is from that SW movies we can not speak.

    And honestly, in a pure logical and writing structure, if you need to bring back a villain from previous movies that villain should be Emperor Palpatine and this only because bringing back Darth Vader would destroy the entire plots from the previous movies and hurt really bad all the SW Fans.

    Think is wiser to start a "Snoke is Palpatine" campaign, just consider that Palpatine is the bad guy in every single SW Movie so far and falling from a hole is not a killing moment in the SW Universe, especially with force users, but why waste time considering the comeback of a super-minor character in Sw Universe if they could bring back the real bad guy himself?
     
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  15. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    You think he had a vision in the dark cave or met Bpfasshi Dark Jedi leader?
     
  16. FallenAngel

    FallenAngel Rebelscum

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    Bringing balance to the force can be interpreted in many ways, anikins bloodline is still bringing balance to the force, via luke, lea and kylo ren,
    as there allegiance is constantly juxtapositional.
     
    #56 FallenAngel, Jan 12, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2016
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  17. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Well, from what we have seen so far I think balance is when there isn't a powerful dark side force spreading evil across the galaxy.
    Anakin destroyed that evil in ROTJ and balance was restored. That is fact at that point - Anakin did bring balance.
    Now it is clear that the Force has gone out of balance - largely since the destruction of the Jedi (once again) and Luke's disappearance.
    As Lor San Tekka says, "There can be no balance without the Jedi".
    So now we have a situation where there is a new evil order, the First Order and KOR, that are spreading evil across the galaxy and have put the Force out of balance.

    I believe that this empowers Snoke. He needs the Dark Side to be powerful to sustain his life. That is his vulnerability.
    He's like Dracula, he is vulnerable to the light. The Star Killer is a metaphor for this in the fact that it literally destroys light.
    So Snoke must ensure that there is no balance in the Force (balance from the Jedi perspective).
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 12, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 12, 2016 ---
    I think there could be places that are strong with the Dark Side (like Dagobah cave) where Snoke can be imbued with this power and that this sustains his life.
    It would make sense that he would know of Dagobah through Kylo (Luke likely told Kylo).
    In Aftermath we are not only told about a potential source to the Dark Side being felt across the galaxy but that the Force can be drained from people (and in Shattered Empire, objects). I don't think this story element is an accident or coincidence in regards to Snoke. I think this ties in with his character, how he came to be, where he is from and what he plans to do next.
     
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  18. FallenAngel

    FallenAngel Rebelscum

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    no thats an imbalance both sides of the force are not represented therefore causing an imbalance. the question of balance is very interpretive.
    Think about it anikin brought great balance to both the dark and the lightside, when anikin became darth vader he shifted balance from a heavily weighted light side to a equal dark and light. emperor and vader. yoda and obi wan (literally balanced the force).
    interestingly luke became both the ruling light and dark side master when he killed vader. but why i hear you ask?
    THEORY
    luke is the last yoda trained jedi master alive.
    In sith rule of two lore (that was in effect ) with darth vader and his master the emperor, one has power(the emperor) one craves it (vader)
    when the time is right the apprentice kills the master and takes power. as vader did to the emperor. so vader is now master with no apprentice.
    but because luke defeated vader (cutting of his hand) and vader dying as a consequence of saving luke, my theory is did luke inadvertently become a sith master?
    though he did not join the sith, according to there lore, he defeated the master (vader) at which point becoming both the last surviving member of both the sith and the jedi.
    this would bring temporary balance to the force


    This i would interpret as in a dualistic manner there will always be equal opposition in both dark and light and therefore there needs to always be a representative of both.
     
  19. Mosley909

    Mosley909 Rebel Official

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    that just maskes snoke sound really weak, and not the threat he needs to be.
     
  20. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    But he is weak. My theory doesn't change that.
    We are told he is vulnerable.
    We are shown how beat up he is.
    We know he is hiding away on a mobile command centre.

    Invincible villains are boring. There needs to be something that is a threat to them.

    I think an interesting end to the saga would be that to defeat evil, you can't do it through war or violence. Otherwise, the Dark Side will remain empowered.
    Instead, the Resistance needs to "redeem" the entire FO.
    I think Finn could be a Spartacus figure for the Stormtroopers - showing them they have a choice and turning them against the FO.
    I think Rey will be the redeemer of Kylo Ren and "destroy" the KOR.
    This will then make Snoke vulnerable. Without the evil in the galaxy, he will lose his power.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 12, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 12, 2016 ---
    That's just wrong I'm afraid.
    Lucas confirmed that the balance was restored when the Sith were destroyed.

    There is always good and evil - regardless of the Sith and Jedi.
    But when the Sith are in power the Dark Side dominates, evil is everywhere. This is what puts the Force out of balance.
    The Jedi don't create more light, they simply stop the Dark Side, or try to, from taking over.
    Only the Jedi can hold back the Sith/Dark Side. And when they do, balance is restored.
    If you think Luke became a Sith in ROTJ you are way off base. I don't really know how to respond to that.


    Good and evil exists in people and in the universe.
    The Force itself is the collective consciousness of the galaxy.
    WHen there are no Sith, there is still good and evil but they are balanced. Nature is in harmony.
    But when the Sith take over they spread evil everywhere and it dominates the light. This is reflected in the Force ("life creates it, makes it grow"/"the Force is an energy field created by all living things") as the collective consciousness of the galaxy is under the cloud of the Dark Side. This collective energy then has a will, the will of the Force, and the Jedi can hear this will and enact it's will - by destroying the Sith.

    It has nothing to do with equal numbers of Jedi and Sith. That idea is absurd, sorry.
     
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