SPECULATION Clarification around snoke

@master_shaitan
This debate has changes so many times.

First it was about the prophesy and it being interpretive. my view
you ultimately adopted that view.

I also set out each of these point over the discussion and you have eventually agreed.

1. No Jedi or Sith, balance
2. Equal opposed Jedi and Sith, void of action, balance,
3. Jedi and Sith largely think they are on the right side. That they have the correct perspective.

So, i could have a SITH, who has a family, like if anikin would have turned and padame just went along with him.
lets call him PLAGUS, who just sits in a SITH temple somewhere and studies the force. and he has a friend who is a sith too.

And a jedi comes along who's job it is to kill all SITH, whether they are peaceful one's or not. and kills PLAGUS
Anilin's friend who is a peaceful sith just studying, is now drawn in to a battle.

WHAT WE AGREE REFERENCE

1. No Jedi or Sith, balance
2. Equal opposed Jedi and Sith, void of action, balance,
3. Jedi and Sith largely think they are on the right side. That they have the correct perspective.

Has the jedi upset the balance of the force by creating a war?

remember

We agreed a sith can exist who exists in a study capacity only. i.e.. doing no wrong.

So the world is at peace. as in rule 2. equally opposed, void of action.

Would the jedi's killing of a sith in your perception, be unbalancing the force.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 15, 2016 ---

@master_shaitan

Do you agree that the dark side is not an external thing. that the concept of dark and light is just that, a concept.
It refer to the two sides of are nature.

so a JEDI has Dark and Light in him, as does a SITH.

Because what we are really saying is they have a capacity to draw on either side of there nature?
Because really the SITH draw from all sides of there emotions, not just one side.
you keep lumbering them with only a certain kind, but there whole point is all emotions are there to be drawn on.

The JEDI are abstaining from eliciting certain emotions.

and we agreed before that the jedi mandate/code needed updating.
I think we should move to that?

https://thecantina.starwarsnewsnet.com/index.php?threads/lukes-new-jedi-code.8676/

how and what?

 

Literally my final response in this debate. It's beyond ridiculous.

No. I said the prophesy was and remains that Anakin would bring balance by destroying the Sith.
That is the prophesy.
But the new writers might modify it - which they could, without contradicting the other films. But I highly doubt they will.
Lucas said the prophesy came true. I see nothing in the movies that suggests otherwise.

Agreed. But I wouldn't rule out the potential of an evil non-Force user being powerful enough to cause imbalance. Depends how much evil they can spread.

Only possible if, like I speculated, said Sith is badly injured and has essentially retired or waiting to have enough strength again to do evil.
The Jedi have no impact on this. Whether a Jedi is active or not, they do not cause imbalance.

And the Jedi are right and the Sith are wrong.

No such thing as a peaceful Sith. There could be an incapacitated Sith. And if this were the case then the Jedi wouldn't be acting as a Jedi if they killed them in cold blood. The Jedi in this scenario - if the Sith really wasn't a threat, would likely arrest them or leave them be.

WTactualF?! The Jedi DID NOT create a war! The Sith did by creating both the clone and separatist army!
You did see the bit where Palpatine manufactures a war over 3 movies to get into power and kill the Jedi, right?

To a point. My original post about Snoke is that he was badly wounded and in hiding - incapacitated. But that he sustained himself with the Dark Side. Then when balance was restored in ROTJ, he HAD TO do something to upset the balance again. But yes, in theory if there is someone who has the knowledge of the Sith but is inactive, doesn't do evil, then they wouldn't be putting the Force out of balance.

If that Sith is doing evil then killing him would balance the Force, not unbalance it.
If the Jedi really didn't need to kill the Sith but did so anyway, that Jedi wouldn't be acting in a proper way - but this wouldn't unbalance the Force.

Largely. However, the energy that life creates through evil or bad actions is dark side energy. So it both exists internally within those that give into their Dark Side and externally in the cosmic Force.

Yes. But a Jedi controls their Dark Side and has power over it. They are able to let go of their anger and hatred. A Sith actively uses theirs but rejects the light side - compassion, unconditional love etc. Vader, as we know still had good in him when he was largely doing evil things. It has been said however that Sidious didn't have any redeemable features. Some people extinguish the light it seems.

Show me one example where a Sith Lord uses compassion, or unconditional love.
A Sith is someone who has left the light behind. They use hatred instead of love. That is what a Sith is.
We see how Kylo is trying to drive the light out of him so he isn't conflicted and becomes the Dark Sider Snoke wants him to be.

I didn't say that. I said that the Jedi made mistakes. They became complacent. And perhaps dealt with Anakin in the wrong way. Not their fault he turned, but still, they got some stuff wrong with him. The code is fine.

 

After watching the Star Wars Rebels season 2 trailer today, I am starting to wonder if Ezra Bridger is Snoke. There are several strong hints...1) The trailer strongly suggests Ezra turns to the dark side, 2) we are introduced to other force users who may not be with or Jedi...maybe grey Jedi? Snoke is one who wants to harness both light and darkness. Ezra's path seems to go that way? 3) The light saber like Kylos. It's obvious it's the same light saber or design. Ezra becomes Snoke and passes the light saber to Kylo Ren. 4) the blue eyes and similar face 5) It seems that Luke and Snoke are enemies. Perhaps even the same age? Ezra is the same age as Luke. 5) Lets say Ezra takes a terrible beating in the show. He is injured severely. After the fall of the Empire he decides to fill in the vacuum and destroy Luke.

I am just theorizing but what if Rebels is really a background story telling to help set up The Force AwkENS. Wha if it's he story of our antagonist. We already head Lukes story. He's the hero. But what ever happened to Ezra? By time we get to ANH Luke is the only Jedi left on the Galaxy? Maybe rebels tells the anti-Luke story. Ezra who had potential turns to th dark side, and is rejected by Vader, kills his master..Kanan, and has utter hatred for Luke Skywalker. This is a possibly good theory.

 

Why do you think Snoke wants to harness light and dark? He's trying to drive the light out of Kylo in TFA.

I think Snoke is Plagueis - but he been amassing a Sith Army! That shot of the cloaked figure looks like Maul to me.

The opening dialogue, Asoka says "there is always a bit of truth in legends" - eg "It's A Sith legend...yadda yadda yadda.

Del Toro for Maul as originally planned?

Is Ezra now a KOR?

 

Snoke seems to be human. His whole head is human. He looks like a mummy.. perhaps he wasn' t alive all the time. Perhaps he livlong time ago, decades, centuries, and somehow awakened. But I wonder how Han and Leia (and other people) knew this guy. Was he always like that or did his face look normal? Is his face just burned and poorly healed or was he really dead? Did he come from the Force World? He doesn't seem strong. Why he has to be cgi? This could have been very well done by an actor....The cgi didn't look great.....

 

Hey was off with Frodo and Samwise taking the Ring to Mount Doom.

 

Is it just me or does Snoke have any sort of resemblance to Gollum/Smeahol ?

 

Lol. That's what I was saying.

Snoke even had hand gestures like Gollum.

I loved LOTR, but the Snoke character design was so boring and derivative of Gollum.

That "leaked" drawing of the lizard Snoke was an interesting idea.

Unless we are presented with a huge payoff of why he has to be that kind of alien, it was a massive missed opportunity.

 

Snoke did everything but call Kylo Ren his "Precious ."

 

Snoke isn't fully human. He's probably a half breed. TFA novelization says as much. Also he is over seven feet tall. Doubt he is Ezra Bridger.

I also remember reading that the main films will not have a lot of crossover with the other mediums. I doubt there will be any other info about Snoke until Episode 8 leaks start happening

 

All we know is that Snoke has seen the rise and fall of the empire. Ezra can fit the bill. What leads me in that direction is the eyes. Why does Snoke have such obvious blue eyes. That decision wasn't made randomly. There's a connection. Maybe we see the development of the KOR in Rebels and Maul as the leader.

 

@master_shaitan

just found an interesting Quote from palpatine.
"once more the sith will rule the galaxy and e will have peace."

Its interesting because i think they do believe that they are the ones to bring peace and order to the galaxy?
just through the darkside. and its easy to dismiss him as a lair but, we could say the same about any ones motives.
what do you think?

 

I think he's an evil Sith and his notion of peace is morally bankrupted. You can't bring peace if you oppress, incarcerate and murder billions. You can't bring peace if you're disrupting the natural harmony of the Force.

Palpatine doesn't care about peace. He cares about power.

Just look at it logically - would you say there is peace in North Korea? Would there have been peace if the Nazis won the war?

Of course not. There's no grey area. These people are evil.

 

Actually in your statement Ezra can not fill this requirement since he was born on Empire day. So he did not see the Rise of the Empire. It was not until he was around seven or eight did the empire even come to Lothal. Snoke was around to see the Rise of the Empire. That means he saw Palpatine Rise and Fall. So he had to be alive in the Republic days before Trade Federation Wars in Episode 1.

 

I do think (in his morally bankrupt way) Sidious did care about Peace. And yes there are gray areas. It is right there in one of the bad scenes of Ep2, when Anakin and Padme are debating how to govern everyone - by allowing everyone to have their say (democracy) or by making "everyone" adhere to a limited groups view of acceptance/peace. Both viewpoints have their issues in terms of "keeping the peace", even if one is inherently more evil than the other.

Sidious' view is that he knows what is best to keep the Peace, and will squelch any opposition. That does (arguably) lead to more overall peace (except to those subjugated), but it IS morally bankrupt. He does care about power, but as a way to allow himself to bring about peace (in his own view) instead of solely wanting to be evil for evil's sake.

 

I always find it a bit of a reach though to suggest that folk like Palpatine 'care' about peace. I mean 'peace' is about a "lack of war" but it is also about harmony, serenity, freedom, non-violence etc. And when Sidious takes over, there isn't peace. There is oppression, murder and slavery. Whenever Anakin tries to say he is doing the right thing, you can tell it's a reach for him - Lucas directed him in ROTS to always have this "what am I doing?" voice in his head. What Sidious wants is power. Absolute power. He can justify his claim for this with saying he has brought peace. But it's a hollow statement in my view.

Of course, absolute peace is an impossibility. However, there needs to be balance - both in the Force and galaxy. And when Sidious takes over, then the darkness is everywhere. There is a tiny minority of peace in the galaxy as there is light. You could say that the rebellion restored the balance to the political peace whilst the Jedi restore the balance to the "spiritual" or "metaphysical" peace (in the Force). And essentially that means a balance between good and bad. The status quo is always on a knife edge - opposing views etc and the Sith are the ones capable of tipping the scales in the wrong direction.

 

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It would be a good twist except for the fact Snoke told Hux to bring Kylo to him to complete his training. If he is dead and communicating through the force then where would Hux be taking him? Couldn't he communicate with him anywhere.

 

I swear ive heard that only light side force users can commune from the dead.

 

Light side characters we know are the only ones we know of that HAVE figured out how to commune from the dead. But they learned from other force beings that may be outside the Light/Dark dynamic.

First does not equal only forever - just only for now.