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SPOILER Clone Wars timeline in new canon makes no sense in light of "Dark Disciple"

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Clone Wars' started by Momaw Nadon, Aug 24, 2015.

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Do you think the nuCanon timeline makes sense?

  1. Yes

    18 vote(s)
    78.3%
  2. No

    5 vote(s)
    21.7%
  1. Momaw Nadon

    Momaw Nadon Rebelscum

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    I finally got finished watching all of the "Clone Wars" series in viewing order (along with the story reels) and also reading the NuCanon "Darth Maul" comic series and "Dark Disciple" (which I highly recommend). I'm so glad I did -- I'm definitely now a fan after avoiding this material for so long. But I am baffled -- flabbergasted, even -- that Disney had the perfect opportunity with the flushing of the old canon to make the current one make sense, and they completely blew it, IMO.

    In short, there is just no legitimate way to fit "The Clone Wars" into a three year period, which the Story Group has insisted on maintaining is the case post NuCanon. I'm not even speaking of the idea that it is ridiculous to assume that basically every major battle during the Clone Wars was ended during a matter of days and that the Jedi and clones had such infinite stores of energy that someone like, say, Obi-Wan Kenobi or Commander Cody could just leave one battlefront, zip off in hyperspace, land on a new planet in a matter of hours and start all over again without any leave, medical treatment, or R&R. You want to convince me that's possible, fine -- SW is all about extreme suspension of disbelief. But there is a major problem because the passage of time is directly referenced on multiple occasions.

    We know for a fact that the CW are already well underway by the time the Council assigns Ahsoka to Anakin. We know for a fact that Ahsoka AGES AT LEAST TWO YEARS over the course of the series. We know for a fact that Ashsoka abandons the Order months before the end of the Clone Wars and we know from "Dark Disciple"
    that Vos builds a relationship over the course of months with Ventress before they make their first assassination attempt, works with Dooku for months after falling to the Dark Side and then spends months recovering from the experience ALL AFTER AHSOKA HAS LEFT, ALL PRIOR TO EPISODE III.
    This isn't even discussing the amount of time it would take Cut Lawquane to desert, marry his wife and settle into a new life; how much time it took for Ventress to leave Dooku's service and be reborn as a Nightsister; How much time Maul and Oppress took raging across the galaxy; how much time it took for Boba Fett to very obviously age and also develop his own career (including a stint in prison).

    It just doesn't add up. Literally. I really don't understand why the Story Group didn't simply say, there is a five or six year gap between Episode II and Episode III and "Clone Wars" takes place in the middle of that time period. I rewatched "Revenge of the SIth" and it wouldn't affect anything at all. At no time are the ages of Anakin, Obi-Wan, Padme et al referred to nor is the length of time since "Attack of the Clones" ever directly stated. In fact, extending the Clone Wars timeline would even have an added benefit, in that it would have aged Obi-Wan and Anakin to a point where their being played by Alec Guinness and Sebastian Shaw in the OT would make more sense.

    Does anyone know why Disney/Lucasfilm is so intent on the three year timeline (THAT MAKES NO SENSE)? What gives? What difference does it even make?
     
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  2. duckface

    duckface Rebel Official

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    I agree with all of this.

    You could potentially fit all of Anakin, Ahsoka and Obi-Wan's missions into 2-3 years (there aren't actually that many of them, as many take place concurrently and only feature 1-2 of them).

    However, it all falls apart with Asajj. You'd think she'd spent at least 2 years as Dooku's apprentice to build such a reputation. Then she rejoins the Nightsisters, disappears, reappears as a bounty hunter, disappears again and then teams up with Quinlan, and that's some six months before ROTS? So that all happens in six-ish months? Makes no sense.

    But at the end of the day, that's what it is. Luke trained under Yoda for a couple of days and became a Jedi Knight, Anakin and Padme got married after a few days of awkward flirting... time is weird in the Star Wars universe.
     
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  3. KyloRenFan

    KyloRenFan Rebelscum

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    I would suggest that look at the chronological order list towards the bottom: http://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-the-clone-wars-chronological-episodeorder

    As you can see, the Darth Mail comic was originally planned to be 4 episodes sandwiched in between the originally-intended 8-episode Dark Disciples "arc" (I haven't gotten a chance to look at both of these things yet but I'm thinking that it's probably because there are events in that comic that effect events in DD in the second half of that book).

    Also, you might be having a hard time in digesting the timeline probably because you're looking at the TCW episodes in a literal linearity sense. What I mean by this is that you might be viewing each episode's events as events that literally follow the events of the previous episodes. While this is true for some episodes within arcs, for other episodes that show events/characters what aren't related episodes before or after as a result of former or future events, I think one can just rationally assume that some events that we see in TCW are happening concurrently with other events where perhaps they appear as one arc after the other yet aren't too directly related. I think by looking at things this way, it might help you in better digesting the 3-year period idea that the Clone Wars encompasses.

    Another thing you can think about is the concept of time in the Star Wars universe (particularly, comparing planet to planet, planet to space); it might not exactly follow the idea of time in the real world.
     
    #3 KyloRenFan, Aug 28, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2015
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  4. John Crichton

    John Crichton Rebel Official

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    I'm thinking that's too much of a stretch. But on the other bits about different arcs happening concurrently (not explicitly being made clear this is the case in some instances), I agree with you.
     
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  5. *Definetly Not A Sith Lord*

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    Your opinion is really on point!Sometimes I also can't imagine how this all happened in JUST 3 years.But...

    That's what I thought too.Many episodes are showing different Jedi/other characters so it could be taking place at the same time.
     
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  6. Momaw Nadon

    Momaw Nadon Rebelscum

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    I never got the impression that Luke trained under Yoda "for a couple of days". I thought it had been pretty-well established that he was on Dagobah for at least a few months, given that there needed to be enough time for the Millennium Falcon to travel to Bespin under non-hyperdrive speed (that's not even counting the potential time distortion that would be caused in real world physics by traveling at close to light speed, but even in Star Wars physics a journey between systems at sublight speeds would take a long time).
     
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  7. duckface

    duckface Rebel Official

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    It would have taken a long time, yes. But then, does that mean they were all stuck in the same clothes for months? They all looked fresh when they arrived on Bespin.

    At the end of the day, we're trying to rationalize plot holes!;) I think Lucas himself said his movies all take place within a few days/weeks.
     
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  8. Momaw Nadon

    Momaw Nadon Rebelscum

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    Actually, as I believe I said, I watched the shows (and read the extra material) in chronological order based on the canon timeline, not in release order. That still does not explain how Ahsoka became a padawan months after the Clone Wars began, aged two years, left the Jedi order, and then Ventress and Quinlan spent nearly a year together before unsuccessfully completing their mission, then had time for Quinlan to retrain before resuming his role as a Jedi general...all within three years. This isn't based on speculation, this is based on actual in-universe statements of how much time passed.
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 11, 2015, Original Post Date: Sep 11, 2015 ---
    I'm not neglecting that these things happened concurrently -- what I'm saying is that both IN UNIVERSE and also statements from Dave Filoni make specific mentions of time passing that do not align with a three year period.
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 11, 2015 ---
    I'll have to dig up my sources, I'm pretty sure there were in-universe (at least old canon) acknowledgements of the passage of time. And I would assume they rotated among three or four outfits, a ship like that surely has a washing machine somewhere...
     
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  9. Whaleyland

    Whaleyland Clone

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    Interestingly, I am just beginning reading Dark Disciple and discovered another discrepancy in the text that strongly implies the events of the book DO take place at least five years after the events of Attack of the Clones. Boba Fett, who is encountered very early in the story (Chapter 3, I believe) is described as "in his late teenage years", which makes absolutely no sense considering the current chronology. Assuming Boba was one of the first generations of clones, he still would only be ten by AOTC. Give another two years for the events of Dark Disciple and you find yourself with a 12-13 year-old Boba Fett. Hardly in his "late teenage years". When we see Boba on the show the first time, he appears much as he did in AOTC, but when we see him again, I think in Season 5, he looks quite a bit older, I'd say around 13 or so. Now it seems that he is around 16 or 17 in this book, but at least 15 to be considered late teens (and that's assuming the pre-teen years are considered "teen" years).

    I have argued for many years (before the canon reboot) that the Clone Wars and the entire Star Wars story works much better if the Clone Wars lasted longer. Anakin and Padmé would be older by the end, Sebastian Shaw's and Obi-Wan's ages in the Original Trilogy would be more accurate, and Ahsoka's maturity and growth would be more believable, as well as her abandonment of the Jedi (it wouldn't be very proper for the Jedi to allow a 13 year-old to go off on her own, but I could imagine that for a 16-17 year old). The only problems would be in the literal ages of the actors, but Ewan pulls it off pretty well and Natalie looks today much like she did in 2005, so she clearly can pull it off too. I don't know what Hayden looks like today, but I am guessing he also looks similar. I believe my original estimate was that the Clone Wars should be approximately 8 years for the actors/characters ages to match up more accurately, and I feel this is being done even if the committee hasn't acknowledged it yet
     
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  10. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Well AOTC and Rots were only 3 years apart which should be the approx. estimation of the entirety of The Clone Wars. With Boba after being 10 years old. By ROTS he should be 13 years old and from what you've said DD would have been two years after ROTS which would make him roughly 15 years old/16 years old.
     
  11. Whaleyland

    Whaleyland Clone

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    Dark Disciple takes place roughly 6 months before Revenge of the Sith. The Jedi Council still exists and Quinlan Vos is one of the main characters, and the story is based on eight unreleased episodes of The Clone Wars. The author/story committee clearly made a mistake in saying Boba Fett is in his "late teenage years" because he can't be any older than 13 at the end of the war. It just was an interesting mistake because it supports my argument that the Clone Wars should be more than 3 years long for all sorts of reasons. Currently the story committee has been very vague on timeline structures and whatnot, although they now seem to place The Phantom Menace as year 0 and A New Hope as year 32, which means they do still recognise the Clone Wars as only consuming 3 years. But there is little canon material that has stated that – it's been mostly support material of questionable canonicity. I wouldn't be surprised to see the war extended and a few years added between Episodes II and III. It wouldn't hurt anything and would help a lot of things.
     
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  12. ZebroGodilla

    ZebroGodilla Darklighter Ace

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    I totally get the arguments for and against the three years here, but let me put a word in. Star Wars doesn't care about time being a part of the plot, ever since 1977. By trying to rationalize every single thing, the universe becomes more constricted. I'm a huge fan for the new canon and Legends, and for what both did to structure the Star Wars timeline, but I enjoy the story more than the rationality behind it :D
     
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  13. Vader_the_White

    Vader_the_White Rebel General

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    The years that the films and The Clone Wars take place was determined by Lucas ages ago and they are sticking with it. Don't blame the Story Group or Disney*.
    Also, as many have said, many episodes are concurrent, which does help a lot. Yeah, there's hiccups (especially the one you mentioned), but to be fair, that happens. It's fiction and it things like this are common. There's a point where you just need to relax.
    Finally, we know that the Clone Wars lasted about three years, but there can be a bit of wiggle room of a few months (it's not like they said the Clone Wars lasted three years, two days, and seventeen minutes).

    *It's hilarious how much grief that the Story Group or Disney gets that has its roots with Lucas and his ideas.
     
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  14. Ralok-one

    Ralok-one Rebel Official

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    The way it works, using real world physics... is that... When approaching the speed of light, time on the falcon would grind too a halt. (Hyperdrive allows them to circumvent relativistic speeds like this)

    Basically everyone on the Falcon was in stasis, while Luke was on Dagobah training... he could have been on Dagobah for years and it wouldnt have mattered too the people on the falcon, since they wouldnt have needed supplies or anything since they wouldnt be aging or moving or anything while on the way to bespin.
     
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  15. PrincessLeiaCB3

    PrincessLeiaCB3 The Princess that was Promised
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    Time is a interesting concept in Star Wars.

    There have been some indications regarding the journey from the Asteroid Field to Bespin to last some weeks. The "Moving Target" books indicates something like that:

     
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  16. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    3 years is a long time in a time of war. The whole battles of WWII occured in about 4 years. And there are many.
     
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  17. Pomojema

    Pomojema Ayatollah Of Rock-&-Rolla
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    On America's side, yeah. The war started two years earlier for the people of Europe.
     
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  18. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    I know, I'm european. But most of the important battles occured between 1940 and 1944.
     
  19. Darth Daigo

    Darth Daigo Rebel Official

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    I never understood this argument. Should the same logic not apply to Luke's journeys from Hoth to Dagobah and from Dagobah to Bespin as well? Assuming that Han and Leia took a direct route from Hoth to Bespin and Luke an indirect route (via Dagobah) and that they all traveled with the same speed, it would suggest that Luke traveled much longer in space than Han and Leia. Because Han and Leia spent less "time" in space, even more time should have passed for them than whatever time that Luke spent training with Yoda on Dagobah.
     
  20. Boushhdisguise

    Boushhdisguise Jedi General

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    Maybe Ani and Padme took a holiday to Naboo which we didn't see. The Jedi council sitting around and around, well we saw some of that in the movie, but whole episodes of that would have been dumb. As for ESB. I imagine Luke practicing a lot which would be mundane, and a lot of stuff on the Falcon involving cleaning the ship, and whatever your imagination takes you that would occupy time would be boring or not great for a family movie. There is no logic to these movies. You wouldn't see the explosion of Hosian Prime from Takodona either.
     
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