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Colin Trevorrow Won't Direct Ep. IX

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by CaptainPhastastic, Jun 15, 2017.

  1. General_Tarkin

    General_Tarkin Rebel General

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    Going overbudget could have been one of the reasons. Yet he wasn't "sh.t at his job" (great to see you respect one of the key people behind Star Wars), because every single one of Lucas's good movies were produced by Kurtz. Once he left, everything went immediately downhill. They've made a great duo.
    Also, he isn't trying to make anything more important, it's the fanbase that's started recognising his contributions. He's quite silent ever since in fact...
    Yet you still dedicated your precious Star Wars forum time to write that entire last response. If you're indeed so not interessted, why not just start and finish with this paragrpah? Are you run out of arguments already? My apologies, if I hurt your feeling, I didn't intent to... Ironically, maybe you're indeed just too sensitive.

    I'm not sure what is it that made you to that realisation from my previous comment though... I didn't say anything new about my standpoints in that particular one. Anyways, I'll continue this disussion, as I think there are still things to discuss here. Feel free to join again if you wish (and can).
    Everyone in Hollywood (especially at that level) is very confident and egoistical. It's not the reason why he was fired. Hollywood is a wretched hive for sex offenders, rapists and many other bizarre people. Just look at what's happening right now (and even that only thanks to the internet btw).

    No one really cares who you are and what you do as long as you bring in the green stuff and/or don't danger the process of making the green stuff. Clearly Lord/Miller and Treworrow did. Like I said before, the majority of the fanbase had their concerns about Treworrow from the very begninning, just read up some of the comments here. The faliure of Book of Henry and a lackluster script is probably the real reason.

    Hamill himself disagreed (fundamentally!) with Rian Johnson, yet he wasn't fired. How do you explain that?
    Since I also mentioned the MCU from the very beginning, I'm not sure what other franchises are you talking about. So you kind of have to.
    I mean, the MCU can't be the single franchise you meant to say, right?
    This "extra care" is merely your conception. It dosen't need "extra" care, it simply needs "regular" care and dedication.

    Because all the other major franchises out there don't seem to have (or not as much as it should). For example the Transformers movies had much more potential at its inception... I can frankly say I liked Blade Runner 2049, but two movies aren't really a franchise yet, imo.
    I didn't use it here, but I'd say it's a perfectly valid argument in many situations, especially since the release of TFA. Male characters for instance were never called a Gary Sue as vehemently as Rey was...
    Galen Marek for instance is a completle Mary (or Gary) Sue, yet I've never seen this used to describre him before Max Landis made the argument mainstream. Now I see comments about Starkiller being a Mary Sue everywhere...
    And this is just one rather small example.
    She fired exactly two directors (as L/M are a duo), both for understandable reasons imo. You could make the argument that she hired the wrong directors though...
    As far as we know, Trank never had a separate 6th movie. He was originally either set to direct R1 or Han Solo. But anyways he wasn't fired by Kennedy, so you can't associate him with her...
    Indeed, the MCU is outstanding on director's front. However, this is where the differences between the MCU and Star Wars appear. The MCU has a certain formula they follow in basically every single one of their movies. The stories were mapped out by committees long in advance, they don't really need any real effort from the director (with the exception of the first Avengers and the GotGs).

    Both the Star Wars main episodes and the anthology movies are very different from that. The anthology movies are meant to be unique and different, and the main episodes are... well main episodes. They need an inspired director with a vision, otherwise it's just the prequels all over again. The Star Wars movies are space fantasies, they would become boring way faster than the superhero flicks otherwise.
    It's quite relevant here, since it was on this very same thread, only a few comments above (on the previous page to be precise). Also, you don't have to remember, you can just watch it in your profile.
    I'm not sure how's that supposed to be funny, but I wasn't talking about his motoric abilities... But about the character. Kasdan (and frankly, Ford as well) were right. Han Solo as a character has overstayed his welcome. He was supposed to be just a sidekick that helps the hero on his journey. But since he turned out to be more popular than expected (he didn't even appear in Splinter of the Mind's Eye at all), he got the girl (and Leia was made to be the sister of Luke) and went through complete character developement... But all that already happened by the end of ESB. You can very clearly see in RotJ that the writing was struggling to give him a real reason to be there, outside of being a popular character. That's why he's so clumsy and useless.

    TFA is another story though, his role was completely different there (and it was his best role since ANH, imo), so yeah, in the end you can make the argument that it was the right decision to keep his character alive in RotJ, but that's only because a ST was eventually made.
    In the English language "ignorant" is not respectful at all...
    I really don't want to turn this into childish finger-pointing, yet it was you who called me ignorant and foolish for no reason at all in your first response, just because I've had a different (and far more logical, to add) argument about Treworrow and L/M being fired. Since you started with that, and also excused your disrespect and rudeness to a mod with a retort like "you're just too sensitive", I don't think you have the right to cry about people using that against you as well. "Give as good as one gets."

    Besides, I don't think that "salty prequel fanboy" is such a big deal. Maybe you're indeed just too sensitive. You can call me a salty OT fanboy whenever you want :), as I'm definitely an OT fanboy and I'm salty as well sometimes (usually when it come to the prequels).
    Full control, as he was the one that said "action" and "cut". But he didn't have the control he had over the prequels. He didn't have the budget nor the technology for his vision for instance (according to his very own statements). He didn't have the time either. TPM had the longest period of pre-production for a movie at the time (if you don't count discontinued pre-productions). Also, other artists had far greater influence over the OT (especially on ANH) than over the prequels. Compare TPM's first draft to ANH's first draft(s). ANH went through fundamental changes until it was finally saved on the editing desk... TPM was virtually untouched.
    The only prequel that went through heavy changes is RotS (the best of the prequels ironically). The test audience apparently didn't understand why Anakin turned at all, so basically the whole movie was recut.
     
    #261 General_Tarkin, Nov 1, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2017
  2. CaptainPhastastic

    CaptainPhastastic Rebel Official

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    Every once in a while, I love to go back and revisit how well the responses to my initial post have aged...
     
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  3. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Treworrow flopped with his film before he started ep IX production, it brough to his fall down of dirrector for ep IX.

    Ruin Johnson on the other hand got his book of Henry which became Star Wars episode VIII.
     
    #263 McDiarmid, Apr 27, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018
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  4. Addi Ras

    Addi Ras Jedi General
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    He had a script ready to go so IX had started at least Pre Production please at least try & get you facts right it wa#only after Carrie tragic passing & Trevorrow having to redo the script that problems began. So while Book of Henry had problems in it no way was solely the cause of his departure from IX
     
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  5. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    I do find logic in what you said now when I re-read my and your post..
    If criterion of making divisive film would be obstacle to be given dirrecting other Star wars film , than decision for Rian to dirrect enitre new trilogy would be compromised to.
     
  6. Addi Ras

    Addi Ras Jedi General
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    It really wouldn’t LFL knew exactly what they were getting with TLJ. So LFL don’t think he failed as a director a portion of the fan base yes but not LFL. Thats why they announced that he would be in charge of creating a New Trilogy BTW Rian is only down to direct the first one not the whole Trilogy
     
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  7. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    I didn't said Rian failed, he just made divisive film. That does not mean he is bad dirrector. For example Stanley Kubrick has made some divisive films that were masterpiece.
    What I want to say you are right Disney is not taking Rian's film as obstacle of giving him to direct more films. In fact Disney manifested brave faith in Rian. His approach, while having quality of been radical, is not entirely safe. Man that thinks most beloved Star Wars character who was actually beatified by the fans decades ago should be made drinking green milk from space sea cow may be genius, but there are risk .
    So yes definitely a previous films are not reason in Disney to get fired, Trevorrow had that other problems you mentioned.
     
    #267 McDiarmid, Apr 27, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018
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  8. Addi Ras

    Addi Ras Jedi General
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    Only because you changed Failure to Divisive after I replied to you.

    But we can agree that TLJ was certainly more risky in what it did with some of the characters & it was certainly more risky in the execution of the film then either Trevorrow would have been or J.J will be with IX.
    It remains to be seen weather that is a god or bad thing but I remain hopeful that IX will be a good film.
     
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  9. p03

    p03 Force Sensitive

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    Wow these threads, lol. Actually I give people the benifit of doubt in which English is not there first language. I used to coach at university and help foriegn students with there essays. Often things are easily lost in translation and its just one word. Granted I have not done this since 2012 and I continuesly make literary and grammatical errors all the time but I would never submit this style of writing in a million years.
     
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  10. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    Just for some perspective:
    The same person also said this:
     
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  11. zazeron

    zazeron Rebelscum

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    TLJ will be on the level of attack of the clones by the end of the year on IMDB...so rian johnson blasted up
     
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  12. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    Will your opinion change about the film based on how other people feel? Why do you care IMDb voters think? My opinion about The Shape of Water didn't change just because it won an Oscar. The Last Jedi has been released and will always be Episode VIII. The IMDb rating isn't going to change anything.
     
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  13. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Episode VIII is highly divisive and bravely made film.It is masterpiece, but because it has made that things with Luke Skywalker, its was hated by many fans, including myself.
    Divisive masterpiece.To this day.
    Rian Johnson has hurt me deeply with his execution (both spiritual and physical !) of old Luke from original trilogy, however I must admit he maid this perfectly, meticulously, obsessive, ganially.It almost looks like as its not a planned and programmed final solution , the execution as a result of a leftist polithical doctrine embraced for new trilogy about cleansing of new trilogy from original heroes while trying to sell this as best as possible .What was genuinely a doctrine to execute Star Wars " aristocratic dinasty " in a style of French revolution guillotine (where is Han?), he turned in to a true art, which even I admitted looks - beautiful. I actually praise sinister genius of Rian Johnson by this better than any critics will ever do, of find gut to say it.
    I understand it requires wide perspective to understand this I said, so its inevitable you must see conflict in me.

    There is no conflict.
     
    #273 McDiarmid, Apr 28, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2018
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  14. Pomojema

    Pomojema Ayatollah Of Rock-&-Rolla
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    Easy. Confirmation bias. It's the same guiding "logic" by which anyone who claims that a $1.3B-making movie, which was made on a $200M budget, is somehow a financial catastrophe for a studio that has released nothing but hits since being bought by Disney. Even though there's demonstrable proof that a number of the movie's scores have been cooked in some fashion or another (and, bear in mind - this is true for a lot more movie scores online than many are willing to admit), they can say that the movie "failed" because some numbers on a service (that doesn't actually matter all that much in the grand scheme of things) agrees with them.

    It's absolute hypocritical rubbish. At the end of the day, a lot of people saw the movie and enjoyed it enough that they bought it on some other format, or they will when the big end-all-be-all 4K HD Blu-Ray box set of discs that include mountains of extra content finally arrive. It's a divisive movie amongst the fans but a popular movie all around, and I suspect that one that will become substantially less controversial when Star Wars Episode IX comes out, along with other content that fleshes out the things that people pointlessly complained about.
     
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  15. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    In this case confirmation bias is made by the side of those who cant accept that film uderperformed.
    Nobody remembers that Disney and box Office analists considered "realistic" box Office for TLJ 1.8 billion, 2.1 would be perfect(but was actually cautiously expected by many), 1.6 billion was worst scenario and absolutely lowest treshold of satissfactory result ever predicted by anyone before film to my knowledge.
    Some things are clear, only in minds of those who resist the truth its relativised, and actually turned in story about finantial success.
    Yes 1.3 billion is hughe money and they will not starve from hunger, still, its Star Wars, it downperformed clearly.
    And I understand there should be not much talk about it since if one Star Wars film fails, the reputation of "unable to fail"Star Wars films is lost.And nobody of us wants Star Wars to fail.
    Thus I oblige to conformity as a fan we do not talk about that much, but to hope episode IX will fix the things.
    Still, from the intelectuall correctness , for not insulting others minds,we should not talk about TLJ finantial performance at all.
     
    #275 McDiarmid, Apr 28, 2018
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  16. Pomojema

    Pomojema Ayatollah Of Rock-&-Rolla
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    And this is where the "it should have made more than TFA" angle falls apart. Nobody, in their right mind, "cautiously expected" TLJ to make nearly as much - if not even more - money than TFA.

    TFA was a once-in-a-generation event. Hands-down. The unparalleled level of success that movie achieved never happen again with this franchise, and that's simply because it came after a period of time when nobody expected there to be another Star Wars movie. But that doesn't mean that a sequel to that movie making less than expected, by people who had ludicrously unrealistic expectations of how the movie was going to perform, makes the film a costly underperformer.

    Perhaps it could have made $200M extra elsewhere, but as it stands it's 2017's most profitable film, with the only near competition being another Disney-produced movie. Also worth remembering, there were also people who were pegging Rogue One for a $1.3B haul back in 2016. Nobody acted like the sky was falling when that movie came up nearly $250M short of that total.
     
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  17. High General Kenobi

    High General Kenobi Rebel Trooper

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    Exactly. I can't believe the whole "TLJ underperformed" stuff is still a thing. Hate on the movie all you want, say that it was badly done, or that you didn't like something or other about its craft. That's something that can be debated since it's more or less subjective.

    But stop such a feeble narrative that can be dismissed in a second by just looking at any serious analisys. TLJ made the expected numbers, which, by the way, were extremely profitable. Solo and IX could be in trouble, we'll see. But TLJ did it's work at the box office.
     
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  18. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    TLJ was destined for much greater acheivements.One was almost guaranteed.
    I was struck by the Luke's portayal,still I went to theaters 7 times as a hardcore fan and amateur analist.

    Even after watching premiere and for second time I believed TLJ will get minimaly 1.6-1.7 billion regardless of reception because of titanic momentum,legacy and expectations it had behind.It earned 450 million based on that hughe momentum within 72 hours,first 3 days.On the third day it appeared film was in the race with TFA !

    Afterwards it slowed in a way that can now be only described as a sign of contempt by large part of the public, which spread out about the film.

    I never considered China as important.,but what happen there ashamed me as a Star Wars fan as should ashame anyone who invested anything in Star Wars and there is no excuse .
     
    #278 McDiarmid, Apr 28, 2018
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  19. Pomojema

    Pomojema Ayatollah Of Rock-&-Rolla
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    I think that there's a case to be made that TLJ may not have made as much as Disney's internal projections indicated that it would have, and that's perfectly fair as a criticism. (Especially since the merchandise for Star Wars has taken a hit between kids these days being more interested in video games and apps and less interested in toys as major retailers go under.) But again, they were downplaying their financial expectations for RO and seemed pleased that it cracked $1B. Their expectations for what a movie needs to make to be a hit are clearly realistic.
     
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