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Connections beyond the force, Rey/Kylo.

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Sparafucile, Mar 14, 2018.

  1. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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    Well, that's okay. I'm not a psychologist or anything--just an avid student of storytelling and character development. Nothing wrong with disagreeing on how those things work. :)
     
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  2. Chise

    Chise Rebel Official

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    We need an agree icon! :)
     
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  3. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    But Kylo is that.
    He's not a normal adolescent because he isn't adolescent. He's a grown man stuck in that frame of mind. Which is why it's not derogatory it's just matter of fact.
    It isn't derogatory to say someone is stuck in adolescence which is when these traumas occurred for him. It just is.
    It isn't derogatory to say someone has PTSD from an event in childhood they carry with them through life, which is essentially what this is.
     
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  4. oldbert

    oldbert Guardian of Coffee Breaks

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    ..and I, for my instance, don't like the label "emo". What is wrong about having emotions every now and then. We are humans, not robots.
    Oh..
    somebody above said sthg similar already.

    @topic: We will see if JJ adds sthg to Reys heritage. It's not THAT important for me personally but maybe he "twists up" this part of Reys arc.
     
    #24 oldbert, Mar 16, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
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  5. Chise

    Chise Rebel Official

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    I disagree with you. I don't think he is stuck in adolescent frame of mind. And it is always derogatory to call a grown person adolescent like. That is why grown up people take offense if one calls them petulant children when they behave like such.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 17, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 17, 2018 ---
    Well. Theres's emo and there's emo.
    Emo
    is not about healthy emotions. :)

    Topicwise: their connection beyond the Force is their loneliness. That is pretty obviously stated in the movie and if I saw well in the novelisation.
     
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  6. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    I honestly have no way to respond to this cacophony of contradictions
     
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  7. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    he sensed that she was the "awakening" that Snoke referred to. he probably also sensed or knew through the Force that she was his equal/complement.

    he didn't know any of this, he found it out from touching her. he says as much in the elevator.

    they were basically dreamfasting.
     
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  8. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    Kylo is not stuck in adolescence, but he is very clearly tapping into some immature and juvenile resentment within him to commit to the dark side more decidedly. This is a conscious effort on his part. He believes the dark side is giving him a purpose.
     
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  9. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i don't actually think it's a choice.
    while yes, he's trying to commit to the Dark, he's also just never learned any better; that adolescent pain is real and present to him.
    yes, he needs to grow up, but i wouldn't say he's being immature and juvenile on purpose.
     
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  10. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    I agree. I don’t think he’s aware of the immaturity of his ways, but he is very consciously using this resentment to reinforce his commitment to the dark. His answer to Rey as to why he killed Han Solo comes to mind: “your parents treated you like garbage, but you cannot stop needing them. It’s your greatest weakness.” He is not only justifying his actions here, but trying to make Rey as resentful and angry about her parents and parent figures as he is about his. A tactic to pull her to the dark. He knows it works.
     
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  11. HarryShoulders

    HarryShoulders Rebel General

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    As much as I would like it, there is likely nothing beyond what we already know, but you never can tell. It would certainly bring more depth to the story if there was, but I try not to expect much anymore. I am personally holding out hope there is some other history with Rey being family, or a youngling Ben couldn't bring himself to kill after Luke 'peeped and creeped with a lightsaber.'

    Or crazy theory rehash - you have to assume they pull(ed) some things from Legends, etc...intentionally or not.

    As a family member, or galactic innocent, young Rey was injured/killed inadvertently, etc. by Ben, or during an incident he witnessed. Ben taps into the (Dark Transfer) unbeknownst to him which saves her, and is consumed by the Dark Side. He achieves what Anakin could not, and he pays for it, continuing down a path to dominate his destiny. This could explain a connection beyond family and the Force if need be, and allow Ben to be redeemed more easily. It could also explain a rift/indifference/anger from Han/Leia/Luke if she is family, and they all believed she was dead, including Ben.

    Only interesting since I was looking at the art of TFA book again, and saw Darth Talon's picture > Cade Skywalker > Dark Transfer - an just having fun with that and Snoke (Krayt) kind of thing, which you could tie into a Kenobi movie as well since he faced off against Hett on Tatooine and explain Snoke's injuries (or just insert a battle against Luke.) Funny that Krayt headed for the Unknown Regions....
     
  12. Chise

    Chise Rebel Official

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    Does that mean I win? :p
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 19, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 19, 2018 ---
    Exactly!!!
    Well done. Sit, an A for you ;)
     
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  13. Chise

    Chise Rebel Official

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    He wants to let the past die, true? That *is* a choice.
    And he will kill it if he has to. That is direct proof of what @Kylocity claims.

    Kylo Ren is not being 'evil' because he is mentally ill or emotionally retarded. He wants to be that because he hopes the Darkside will deliver him from all the pain others caused him. His mother, his mentor and his father too.
    The problem is he has light that is unkillable in him. And Rey enkindles it....she is the spark that will light the fire that will bring kylo ren down.
     
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  14. FN-3263827

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    i'm talking about his emotionally stunted behavior (his petulance and his sniping). those are not choices.
    he's not making a conscious choice: i'm going to snot off to my uncle like a five-year old brat.
    it's just happening naturally because he is emotionally/developmentally compromised.

    yes, he wants the Dark to numb him to the pain and confusion and he's feeding his anger because he thinks that's how to do it (that's how all adolescents give in to their anger in order to deal with pain and conflict they can't control or fix or handle in other healthy ways if they have not been taught coping mechanisms).

    Ren Ben doesn't even know he's evil or that his behavior is evil.
    he thinks he's onto some great plan that requires a great deal of sacrifice (if only everyone could see it as clearly as he does!). : o p
     
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  15. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    Wow. Fans are now giving him ready made excuses for his crimes. This is damn sad.
     
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  16. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    Really? It doesn’t make me sad. In fact, it makes me happy that people are kind and intelligent enough to understand disfunction and hope for disfunctional people to change.
     
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  17. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    unless you or someone you know wakes up in the morning and says: gee, i think i'd like to be a petulant brat today and throw a hissy fit and make a total fool of myself due to my explosive temper, then no ~ its not an excuse, it's just a fact. no one is excusing Ben's behavior. we're trying to understand it.

    as @Kylocity said, empathy should be the hope of all people.
    it's too easy to just judge and write others off.
    and not heroic at all. : o p
     
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  18. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Obi-Wan, Luke and Yoda were pretty quick to forgive Vader, just sayin'. Obi-Wan and Yoda even made him younger! See, I don't get why people think Ben can't be redeemed when his Grandfather says did worse things then Ben did.
     
  19. Finn_McCool

    Finn_McCool Jedi Commander

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    I'm not going to pretend to be a psychologist and say he's reverting to adolescence. I think that is overthinking a simple thing.
    Kylo Ren was abandoned by his parents. From his point of view Luke turned on him. The only one who accepted him was Snoke. Even then he sought guidance from Vader ghost. Until Snoke called him a child. That is the moment Kylo put away his obsession with Vader and became his own man.

    You have to realize Rey is the antithesis of Kylo. Rey looked for guidance in Han, and Luke, because her patents abandoned her as well. She was greatly disappointed, so she became her own woman, just like she always has.
    Kylo killed Snoke and did what Vader couldn't and kill palps, like he had planned from the beginning. Kylo is now the leader of the First Order. Is he ready, of course not, but a part of growing up is to leap into a situation you might not be ready for. So no, he isn't adolescent like, he's actually growing up.
     
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