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Considering Star Wars as a single film

Discussion in 'Original Trilogy' started by Chairman Kaga, Jan 9, 2015.

  1. Jimba Fett

    Jimba Fett Rebelscum

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    I don't understand your point of view that the emperor was opposed to a belief in the force. He used the power of the dark side of the force to achieve a position of power and greatness. Vader reflects his master's view more eloquently when he says "don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force." He wouldn't have said this without that belief and a belief the emperor would have shared with him.
     
  2. Darth Sidious

    Darth Sidious Rebel Official

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    It was ESB that revealed the Emperor to be a Force user. Never does ANH state that Vader still has a master. As far we know in ANH by itself, the Emperor is just Vader's boss.
     
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  3. Jimba Fett

    Jimba Fett Rebelscum

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    I'm sorry I miss interpreted what you were saying. Yes I agree with you.
     
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  4. HAL'sgal

    HAL'sgal Force Sensitive

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    Great analysis of the film as a standalone story, guys.

    Not wanting to start fan flame wars, but it's interesting to me that when Star Wars came out, it was thought to be a fun, spectacular movie but quite a few of the critics didn't think it was all that deep as compared to, say, Star Trek TOS. For may years, nay, decades I was an apologist for the OT among "serious" scifi fans, (though the tie for my most favorite movie is between Star Wars & 2001, which doesn't exactly contain shallow subject matter. Plus, I was a philosophy major. So I should know good, deep, stuff when I see it).

    Anyway, it's my feeling that Star Wars has actually held up better than Star Trek TOS in terms of the story itself. More people are starting to look back and realize what an epic tale it is, and always has been (especially if you limit yourself to an analysis of the first movie) whereas Star Trek TOS is somewhat dated because the subject matter was so topical. All I can say is it's a lot less uncool to be a Star Wars fan than it used to be.
     
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  5. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Rebel Official

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    In 2002 I had the honor of hosting a convention panel with Gary Kurtz. He made it clear, that while he was still working with Lucas, there had been no intention whatsoever to visualize the Episodes I-III. The addition of "Episode IV -A New Hope" was merely meant to illustrate that ANH was a chapter in a bigger saga, i.e. there had been a history to this universe but past events were considered to be of a somewhat enigmatic nature, left open to the imagination of the viewers based on what little we learned about this period from Ben Kenobi.

    I think the 1977 (!) Lucas Notes (when he sat down with Carol Titleman) are a testament to that, too. He explained some of the backgrounds of his universe, which he probably would not have shared with us, had he intended to visualize these things. in hindsight, he essentially he gave away part of the PT premises!
     
    #25 Lt. Hija, Oct 27, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2015
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  6. Darth Sidious

    Darth Sidious Rebel Official

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    Looking at Star Wars (1977) as a standalone film, one could argue that with the destruction of the Death Star, the Emperor was removed from power by a popular uprising and the Republic was then restored. One could also argue that with the death of Tarkin, the Empire was kicked out of the outer rim.
     
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  7. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Rebel Official

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    ^^ Yes, the overall impression was that the Alliance had won the important victory.

    Then, in The Empire Strikes Back, we lear that the victory apparently wasn't that decisive.

    With Return of the Jedi we got the impression that the Alliance now had won the important victory and that the war would be over.

    Then, in The Force Awakens...

    Can't help but quote Tarkin from ANH: I'm getting tired of this. The Alliance starts to look more and more like a bunch of idealists, where you start to wonder whether they ever really had a realistic plan how to overthrow the Empire and restore the Republic.
     
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  8. Darth Sidious

    Darth Sidious Rebel Official

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    ANH had to work as a standalone in case there never was a sequel and because audiences weren't used to sequel-based thinking, so there needed some sort of conclusion to be reached at the end of ANH, hence the film's emphasis on Tarkin and the Death Star. Lucas wanted Vader to survive because he wanted to continue the Luke-Vader rivalry, so he needed Tarkin in order to have "the bad guy" get defeated while leaving open the possibility of continuing the Luke-Vader rivalry.

    There was also a point at which the Emperor's death was to be in Episode IX or XII.
     
    #28 Darth Sidious, Nov 14, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2015
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  9. Darth Sidious

    Darth Sidious Rebel Official

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    The galaxy doesn't seem to have as advanced communication technology as it does in the other 5 films. Nobody has conversations by hologram and nobody communicates anything beyond simple signals through space.
     
  10. Darth Sidious

    Darth Sidious Rebel Official

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    Also, without the other five films, Obi-Wan's robes would just be desert robes, not Jedi robes.
     
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  11. Darth Sidious

    Darth Sidious Rebel Official

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    Technology is perceived as superior to The Force. The Jedi are underdogs fighting against a technologically superior regime.
     
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  12. TheFettMan

    TheFettMan Rebel Official

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    I'm almost 45 & consider Star Wars; A New Hope the best feature film ever. On many levels it holds up as a great film & classic story.
    In retrospect or hindsight, I think the A New Hope(1977) dialogue & plot should have lent itself to Obi-Wan(Ben) being conflicted & responsible partly for Amedila's death which compels him to watch over Luke on Tatooine.
    A "love triangle" or Obi-Wan & Amedila having romantic feelings would shape Anakin's anger & conflicted emotions better than the framework of Revenge of the Sith(2005).
    Anakin would see Obi Wan & the Jedi Order as hypocrites or having double standards. This could explain his path to the dark side. Which in turn, causes Obi-Wan to be on Tatooine.

    TFM
    (boba fett)
     
  13. Darth Malkovich

    Darth Malkovich Rebel General

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    That really strikes a chord for me. Those few words about the clone wars and the old republic really fired my imagination as a kid. The 'excerpt from the journal of the whills' in the original novelisation (my uncle gave me his copy sometime in the '80s that he bought in 77 and I still have it) had my mind ablaze with possibilities and I think that's a huge part of the reason I was so dissapointed with the PT - because I'd had twenty years of thinking up my own versions.
     
  14. Lt. Hija

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    ^^ As Gary Kurtz said in 2002, the Episode numbering was only introduced to suggest a rich backstory that did not have to be featured (and was intended to be filled with imagination).

    I still vividly remember how the first pictures of Boba Fett were featured in Bantha Tracks and fueled the Clone Wars Imagination: A bounty hunter from Mandalore wearing the uniform of the shocktroopers that were defeated by the Jedi during the Clone Wars.

    Come to think of it, it rather sounded like a conflict involving the issue of cloning. "The Secession Wars" would have been a more appropriate title describing the events we saw in the PT and in TCW series, IMHO
     
  15. Darth Sidious

    Darth Sidious Rebel Official

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    We're never told who Anakin's master was. For all we knew, Anakin and Obi-Wan were co-apprentices of the same master, and then Obi-Wan trained Vader.
     
  16. Darth Sidious

    Darth Sidious Rebel Official

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    The Empire seems to be a faceless totalitarian machine. When Luke and Han are disguised as Stormtroopers and are escorting "prisoner" Chewie, you can see various Imperial beuracrats walking by like they're "cogs in the machine."
     
  17. Darth Malkovich

    Darth Malkovich Rebel General

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    I've just put the movie on, still the best opening scene ever.
     
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  18. MemphisRains

    MemphisRains Clone Commander

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    I don't know were I may have put it, maybe here? Though, we already knew all in this video)
     
    #38 MemphisRains, Dec 20, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2015
  19. Darth Sidious

    Darth Sidious Rebel Official

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    The regional governors seem to be an important part of the Empire's structure and functioning. I would expect a sequel to have Vader working with another regional governor.
     
  20. Darth Sidious

    Darth Sidious Rebel Official

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