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Controversy Over the New Death Troopers

Discussion in 'Rogue One' started by Kylo Solo, Oct 23, 2016.

  1. Kylo Solo

    Kylo Solo Force Sensitive

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    I've been reading recently that there has been some controversy over Disney adding in the new Death Troopers in Rogue One. The complaints seem to mainly that since they aren't in the Original Trilogy, why would Disney go to the effort of putting in new stormtroopers when this will be the only movie they will be featured in?

    I for one, love the new Death Troopers. They're just so epic looking. I would hope we get to see them in action :D
     
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  2. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    I've never had a problem with a certain type of trooper only appearing in one movie. After all, the Snow Troopers only appeared on Hoth in Ep. V, and Scout Troopers only appeared on Endor in Ep. VI. Why is this any different? ;)
     
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  3. MaximoFilms

    MaximoFilms Rebel General

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    I guess there's only one squad of Death Troopers and that is Krennic's. They are all going to die, probably at the hands of Vader.
     
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  4. GotTheSilver

    GotTheSilver Rebel Official

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    I have no problem with a new type of trooper, or two for that matter when you consider shore troopers. They are specialized forces that were not needed in ANH, just like the snowtroopers or scout troopers or flame troopers...

    Actually, I am kind of surprised that people are not complaining that the death troopers are racists because they are black! (For clarity, I am not saying that I think they are racist. Just a comment on the way things go on the internet. Remember the fervor over Finn being a black stormtrooper?)
     
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  5. Kylo Solo

    Kylo Solo Force Sensitive

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    Oh yes, I remember that @GotTheSilver. That was such stupid BS
     
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  6. duckface

    duckface Rebel Official

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    My only question/concern about the Death Troopers is, given when in the timeline this takes place, are they clones or cadets?
     
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  7. Admiral Petty

    Admiral Petty Force Sensitive

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    I see no problem with their inclusion. The Empire is a massive organization with an absolutely massive army. It makes sense that they would have troops and armor specialized for a variety of circumstances.
     
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  8. Darth Daigo

    Darth Daigo Rebel Official

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    I have no problems either. However, there comes a point that you start to wonder if they had this or that why did they not use this or that? Lord of the Rings and the Giant Eagles comes to mind.
     
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  9. Amanaman

    Amanaman Rebel Official

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    If it were only the Death Troopers then maybe I could let it slide but it's not just that but this:
    both.jpg
    and this:
    u-wing-rogue-one.jpg
    and this:
    imperial-tank-rogue-one-720x480-c.jpg
    and this:
    Rogue-One-A-Star-Wars-Story-TIE-striker.jpg
    Sure, I love seeing new things in SW movies but look at all the things that we are going to see in a movie that's right before ANH! Had this been a movie that was even years before or after well I could deal with it but being a prequel that may be just days away from ANH makes all of it seem stupid. Many fans these days just don't seem to care about things storywise and as long as they get a new SW movie, they don't care about all the eye candy and nostalgia feed that Disney gives them and they are always trying to find logical reasons to say way said things were stuck in the new flick but let's look at things storywise to see if all this new gear and tech make sense.

    Ok, here we have a movie were a band of rebels steals the Death Star plans. This dork:
    Ben-Mendelssohn-in-Rogue-One-Trailer-e1460230079604.jpg

    is going to be in charge of the operations during this movie. Just to deal with the bunch of Rebel scum who do the DS plan stealing mission, he has tanks, AT ATs, Scout Walkers, new troopers and even advanced ships that are made for interplanetary combat. Now we all know that the rebels are going to manage to steal the plans and this dude is going to bite the dust but now comes an extremly critical moment for the Empire. Seeing as the rebels already have the plans in their hands, the Empire gives the mission to this guy!
    darth-vader-crossed-arms-1280jpg-88461e1280wjpg-67c0c2_1280w.jpg

    This is no dorky Imperial here but Darth Vader! A Sith Lord for crying out loud! It is a desperate time for the Empire and it is crucial that the second most powerful being in the galaxy get his hands on the plans before they get to the rebelion headquarters. So the plans get blasted away to Tatooine and what does the mighty Vader do? He sends Stormtroopers riding on slow moving lizards to get the plans!
    databank_dewback_01_169_bc886996.jpeg

    For real??? Wouldn't one of those tanks move quicker than a Dewback? For a mission of such importance, shouldn't Vader have deployed a squadron of Tie Stikers to retrive the plans? And if a dorky dude in a white shirt had his own squads of ELITE troopers, shouldn't Darth Frikin Vader have even better troops at his command? Do you really think that Han would have made it out of Mos Eisley if the Empire would have had tanks and Tie Strikers on Tatooine?

    And for those of you who are quickly going to defend RO saying that these ships were made to guard important Imperial instalations and what not I have to say that there HAD had to be to be an important Imperial base on Tatooine seeing as the Empire was fully aware that the planet was full of scum and low lifes and was controlled by the Hutts non the less! Vader had even dealt with Jabba before so he knew fully well what he and his criminal low life allys were capable of. Seeing as how bad the OT and the PT let us know that Tatooine was, it makes perfect sense that if gear such as those tanks and Tie Strikers existed, there would be a whole garrison stationed on Tatooine!

    This is what bugs me and I didn't even get in to the new rebel ships. I know that trolls are quickly going to give me negative quotes and I know that many may invent tons of excuses just to defend the movie to try to hide it's flaws but I can't stop feeling that Disney is not caring much for the story elements that bind the movies together and it is just giving fans tons of new things just for the sake of doing so.
     
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  10. Travcon

    Travcon Rebel Official

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    This is honestly a non issue especially for those familiar with real life knowledge of military procurement and fielding. There are plenty of examples of say the US military having vast differences in vehicle or weapon systems deployment from service to service and even within services between unit to unit. For ONE example, during the first Gult War the US Marines deployed upgraded but still estentially original M60 tanks, that the army had long retired. Also the Marines used Harrier jump jets for CAS during the same time period when they had never existed in the US Air Force or Army. Additionally there could be great unit personnel differences, one example would again be that in the 90's there were unit that only used Gustav AT weapons, when others were procured Javelins AT systems. Additionally comparing the US Marines using the old Cobra helicopter designs versus the Army abandoning it for solely the Apaches for attack helos would lead to a vastly different experience in terms of aesthetic and funcitonality between one theater of operation and another,
     
    #10 Travcon, Oct 24, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2016
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  11. Bligh

    Bligh Rebel Official

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    I disagree. Each planet has it's own legions of stormtroopers and stormtrooper variants in some cases. I'm no Pablo Hidalgo but here's a quick response to your queries:


    Reasons for the Shoretrooper's Rogue One appearance:
    The Shoretrooper is native to Scarif - a beach/tropical planet. Like in WW2 different armour and equipment is needed to fight in these locations. The Shoretroopers are a logical fit.



    Reasons for the Death Troopers Rogue One appearance:
    From what we know so far The Death Troopers are a small group of elite soldiers under Krennic's command. As the Director of the Death Star's completion it would make sense to have an elite group of soldiers at your disposal for smaller missions and for keeping general scaremongering tactics.



    Reasons for the Tie-Striker Rogue One appearance:
    The Tie-Striker is an in-atmosphere designed fighter. In the original trilogy we mostly saw Tie Fighters fighting in Space. I'd say this speaks for itself - just like the Tie-Bombers aren't featured in every film because they're not needed in every film.



    Reasons for Dewback in A New Hope appearance:
    Tanks probably would have been ineffective in such as rural planet like Tatooine. Remember it's nearly impossible to compare the military forces present at a planet like Scarif or Jedha - both strategically vital and/or important to the Empire as opposed to a minor planet in the Outer Rim such as Tatooine. Naturally Scarif and Jedha are going to have a heavy Imperial presence. Furthermore:


    "Though they were a primitive means of transportation, dewbacks were considered by the settlers of Tatooine to be better than walking if a landspeeder was unavailable at the moment. In some cases, dewbacks could be more reliable than mechanical means because they more easily endured the scorching heat of the desert and didn't have engines and intakes that could be clogged by blowing sand."
    and...
    "Dewbacks were capable of speeds as fast as 50 kilometers per hour for short periods of time—a speed at which a sandcrawler could be overtaken."


    The Lucasfilm story group could probably explain a lot better than me but these actions are thought-out and debated religiously. I for one see these decisions and features as logical - you just need to really research. The Star Wars universe is not a small one and never has been. The difference is; now we're seeing this on a big screen instead of other Canonical material such as books and comics (the old EU).
     
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  12. Travcon

    Travcon Rebel Official

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    Exactly. There are plenty of real life examples of this. This again is a non-issue to the well informed.


     
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  13. Amanaman

    Amanaman Rebel Official

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    Sorry my friend but this makes no sense even if it comes from Pablo Hidalgo as it is just an excuse to cover up for Disneys eye candy.
    1-Shoretroopers-this doesn't bother me as we have seen troops for different environments like the Snowtrooper and the Scout Trooper.

    2-For the Death Troopers that's a lame excuse. If Krennic was so important that he had to have his own squad of personal troopers then it would be obvious that Tarkin and Vader would have had the same or even better. Vader had extremly important missions in the OT and he always used lacky Stormtroopers. The Emperor himself ordered Vader to capture Luke on Bespin so this was a high priority and it would reason for someone like Vader to take elite troopers with him instead of lacky Stormtroopers. The only reason why this happened was that said troopers didn't exist and now they are being shoehorned into the story.

    3-Tie-Striker-Another lame excuse. The Tie Striker would have been of the utmost importance to track the droids with the plans and to stop the Falcon from leaving Tatooine. Not only that but they are fully capable of space flight and combat so there is no reason why they couldn't have appeared in such an IMPORTANT instalation as the second Death Star seeing as PALPATINE himself was onboard. It doesn't get more important than that!

    4-Tanks probably would have been ineffective in such as rural planet like Tatooine-Dude for real??? You are going to tell me that a droid with wheels could easily roll around the sand but a tank would be ineffective? And reguarding Tatooine's importance, look at ANH and you will see Stormtroopers working there. This is not a tipical stroll around a desert. The Empire was the police of Tatooine so it's perfectly acceptable to have your armored vehicles to control riots (that's what it's for in RO right?) in such a dangerous place which looks exactly like the one we see in RO to the point that if you didn't have the info, you could perfectly think said planet was Tatooine.

    And yes. the SW universe is vast and I'm sure it has many things that we haven't seen but lets be real my friend, these things are just shoehorned to look kool and nothing more. If Lucasfilm was indeed thinking things so much as you say they have, they wouldn't have almost completely erased all the species created by lucas and they would have stuck with gear that we were familiar with. Disney is running things their way now and it is eye candy galore and huge explosions were you see troopers flying through the sky which we never saw in the OT before. Same thing happened with how Disney disreguarded everything we knew about the Force with Rey and there too came alot of fans with all sorts of theories to defend her.

    It's one thing to dig SW and believe me my friend, I really dig SW! But it's another for Disney to make a movie before TFA were we see Jabba alive and well and fans quickly come to defend this creating all manner of excuses of how he held his breath when Leia choked him and that it was his slime that saved him from the fire of the explosion.
     
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  14. Bligh

    Bligh Rebel Official

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    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Merman

    Merman Rebelscum

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    I totally agree with you 100% Amanaman. Someone like Vader is way more important than that new Admiral guy and he used normal never-hit-target Stormtroopers for everything. Had elite troopers been available, someone like Vader would have had access to them and would have used them. Same for the tanks, ships and anything else that Disney is jamming into the movie just so that it will look cool.

    I am really excited about Rogue One, but these elements do bother me alot as I am seeing many things that I didn't like from The Force Awakens happening all over again.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 24, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 24, 2016 ---
    I have to disagree with you on this. The point Amanaman is making is not that they used this or that equipment for whatever reason but that if said equipment was available then why not use it when it was extremely necessary. This doesn't have to do with using a old tank or a stealth fighter. The USA uses the equipment it need when it needs it and that's the case here. By placing all this new gear in the new movie, it makes many of the things that happened in the OT seem lame. Why have the new admiral guy have super elite troopers when Vader who was way more important only had canon fodder Stormtroopers under his command.
     
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  16. Travcon

    Travcon Rebel Official

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    You miss the point entirely. Real world examples abound where the equipment used isn't determined by what is best but by what is available and that depends on many factors, the least of which is the perceived "eliteness" of its commander.
     
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  17. Amanaman

    Amanaman Rebel Official

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    And yet you fail to see that you are still defending something that the only reason that it wasn't around was because it didn't exist in the first place and now just because it was shoehorned into SW, you want to make it seem logical.
     
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  18. Travcon

    Travcon Rebel Official

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    It isn't about wanting, it is about what is. Again let's say you filmed the Persian gulf war, one minute on the "front" you would see m1a2 tanks, apache attack helos, A-10 and F-15e attacking as part of an Army unit backed by the Air Force. While at the same time you go 100 km down the line in the same attacking force and see none of those. You would see however M60e3 tanks, ah-1 Cobra attack helos, and Harrier jump jets and f/a-18s as part of the Marines backed by the Navy. Same military, same objective, same AO, and same general yet very different equipment depending on where you look.
     
    #18 Travcon, Oct 24, 2016
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  19. Amanaman

    Amanaman Rebel Official

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    That's simply your point of view my friend and even if I respect that, it does not mean it is the absolute fact.
     
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  20. Merman

    Merman Rebelscum

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    That's kind of a bold statement don't you think? So you mean to say you have the final word around here? Since when?
     
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