Corruption of the Dark Side: How Darth Vader lost his groove

Um... no...

I think it's just formulated writing that always depicts evil (dark side in this case) with anything percieved as unholy like demons, bloodly knights, hooded cults and witches...

 

Then the Earth is truly doomed sooner than what we think.

The thing is this... what is your definition of good? Is it how you see yourself? What you were told believe and fight for?

When breaking it down from there, there's more grey in between than good and evil.

Also, look at the PT... The Jedis happily lived in a city functioning off materialistic capitalism of backward divisions that had purge out the planets true natural form. Is that your understanding of what is good in these films?

 

I think the effect of the dark side on the body is an interesting question. Of course Vader could no longer fight the way he did in ROTS by the time Ep IV rolled around because he was a quadruple amputee with COPD, a big, cumbersome cape, and a mask that must have severely limited his peripheral vision. Anakin's acrobatics were not possible in the Darth Vader getup, even if age and infirmities had not prevented his moving as effectively as he once could.

As for Palpatine, nobody seems to really know how old he was in TPM. He looks like a man of about 50, vigorous and urbane. My concept of him, based on his 'Sith Lightning Face', is that he actually was more like Yoda's age, with his real visage showing up Dorian Gray-like whenever he got his true evil on. He described the story of Darth Plagueis the Wise as a 'Sith Legend', meaning that it was an old story that was known by many, at least among the Sith sympathizer set. Many believe that Plagueis created Anakin, but part of the legend is that he taught his apprentice everything he knew, and then the apprentice killed him in his sleep. Presumably Palpatine also knew how to coax those pesky midichlorians to 'create life', if that is how the canon has decided Anakin was conceived. But I digress. Palpy was always about the dark magic, not the swords, just because he was, IMO.

 

Sith have sex and get old for doing so. Coitus is a poison. The apple in the garden. Jedi remain virgins, thereby remaining pure as snow. Once Anakin hooked up with Padme, it was game over.

Just kidding. That was me streaking through the crowd. BTW, great thread title Blue! You had me at Corruption.

IMHO in the OT it was easy to claim that anyone who manipulated the force for evil paid a hefty price. The toll it took on their bodies was massive... I think Vader at the end of ROTJ was only supposed to be 45 or so (correct me if I'm wrong... guesstimating here) yet he looked 65. Meanwhile the Emperor was decrepit and even his strange hat wearing buddies were purple... Which all seemed to suggest that the force will prematurely age you if you twist it against its natural flow.

Then we get the PT and all that goes out the window. Count Dooku was downright dapper. Looked wonderful for his age. So either he went to a Black Hole Sun (my chain of tanning salons catering to Sith) or he simply isn't affected by the force the same way Vader or the Emperor were.

Someone school me on how Dooku wasn't the same type of Sith if that's the case.

 

So he went to Sith school late in life? Seems odd... I think they needed him to be a Count and decided to ditch the EVIL MAKES YOU OLD AND WRINKLY VERY FAST rule. How he could shoot force lightning is beyond me. Think the writers just wanted it both ways, and when you hold it all to the light, it's inconsistent with what we'd seen before.

Or maybe it has to do with midichlorians...

 

I think Dooku was more the diplomat and tactician than Sidious, possibly due to his Jedi training. Dooku had mastery of the Force and was able to control it, he just had 'evil ends'. In a way, Dooku's motivations were the least clear of the PT villains: he didn't seem to want power, he wasn't particularly down on the Jedi, he just seemed to believe the galaxy would be better off without the Senate. His was an idealogical stance, a political, almost noble (albeit misguided) cause whilst Sideous on the other hand was motivated by hate and the hunger for power and revenge. Maybe Dooku adopting the Sith moniker 'Darth' was a platitude, a necessary evil that allowed him to pursue his own objectives. Ok, so he did try to win over Obi-Wan, but I never got the impression he was fishing for an apprentice as Sideous was he tried to turn Luke. I'm not convinced Dooku was a 'real' Sith, maybe he was just playing along for personal gain -- and maybe an ancestor of his will continue his work in the ST?

 

I don't want every powerful Sith lord to necessarily look like Voldemort/crypt keeper but I also don't want any cloning nonsense.

#NerdWorldProblems

I guess that's where distinct armor/helmets come into play.

 

Yeah, I don't think it requires any convoluted reasoning. Vader was mostly a machine. Sheev relied less and less on his lightsaber as his mastery of the darkside grew and the fact that he had no reason to use it (no Jedi). Vader could not use Force Lightning because of the fact that lightning and machinery aren't friends, so he kept wielding his saber. Luke was just in training. As for the age factor, I completely agree ... the dark side comes with a price. Dooku wasn't a Sith long enough to feel the lasting effects. Why couldn't Maul use Lightning? I think Sidious never taught him, as he had no intention to keep him around long. Also Maul was such a beast with the saber, so it wasn't so necessary for him to do his work (Palpy's attack dog.)

 

Palpy didn't want his apprentices to be too powerful, lest he end up like Darth Plagueis.

That is why I am going with my Dorian Gray theory about Sheev.

 

I wonder if we'll ever see a dark side jedi redeem him/herself and turn light side, while surviving it all. If Dooku was a fallen jedi, it seems there must have been the equivalent of the opposite.

 

First, I'll make the obvious comment (the one I know you were not looking for) and simply state that it was most likely due to the film tech and style of the time. They had enough issues with the lightsabers even for the PT, so I couldn't see the action going so "quick" back then.

Now to answer correctly, I do think you have a bit of a point on the Dark Side ravaging a body over time. But perhaps there could be another aspect to it. Since their perceived increase in ability seems to be fueled by hate and lust for power, perhaps Vader and the Emperor themselves were both weakened by the time of the OT, due to the lack of any qualified Jedi to hate/fight, and having power that was cemented across most of the known galaxy.

I mean, yes, there was the Rebellion... but they were seen as scum, ruffians, nothing worthy of really being concerned about. The Sith lords had no real opponent to fuel their hatred and anger, just a band of rebels deemed an annoyance and largely left for the military to handle..

One could state that once the Rebellion started to gain momentum after EPIV (despite some fallbacks), maybe that should've fueled the hatred of Vader/Palpatine... but I really don't think so. It was always military against military, not the Sith really doing anything. Rarely Vader took direct action, but again it was generally in a military or diplomatic (if extortion and hostage taking can be called diplomacy) role. The few times he did go up against a Jedi, well one could say hate wasn't in the equation, more just a lust for power (by converting Luke to join him -- I'm not counting Obi-Wan in this, that can only be described by 'old men and old film tech').


Mix that in with the fact he was mostly robotic, at least in the parts that mattered for this. I'd figure that over time his attachments would start to wear down with use, and probably require a lengthy and painful process to maintain/replace. Plus the attachments probably were never up to task with matching the movements of a real body equally, supporting the whole 'Emperor attempted to replace him due to not being capable of what he use to be' even though it hasn't necessarily been shown in canon material.

 

Since this isn't necessarily a thread about TFA, I'm going to move it to the General Movie discussion.

 

I love your Post. My best Friend used to have the same Explanation.