Criticisms Of Rogue One

I have seen criticism around not having a crawl so people better understood where this film occurred in the timeline but not around people not understanding cyber crystals, why the Empire wanted them, or Galen's importance.

Doesn't the Prologue, Alliances' desire to get/execute Galen, and the Hologram sequence pretty well spell out Galen's importance? As for Kyber crystals and there importance to the Empire, what about this dialogue:

Cassian: More like what are they taking out. Kyber crystals - every piece they can find.
K2-SO (to Jyn): For the weapon your father is building.

Chirrut: What do you know about Kyber crystals?
Jyn: My father says they powered the Jedi's lightsabers.

All of that occurred in the first act of the movie. Sorry, but if your friends could not pick that up then I doubt an opening crawl would have helped them much. I watched the movie with friends that had never seen a Star Wars movie other than TFA and they understood the Empire wanted Cyber crystals for the weapon Galen Erso was building for the Empire, without me explaining that to them after the movie.

So argue for a crawl if your friends wonder why Leia is so young or why Han, Luke or Chewie is not in the movie but not for things that were laid out in the first act.

 

I never read the book, but I understood her feelings.

 

I picked up on those same things just fine, but my friends who are casual fans and don't follow sci-fi in general still could have used some extra info. Having that info backed up by a crawl would have definitely helped. You can point out things in the movie all you like, I noticed that stuff too, but that doesn't mean that it couldn't have been a bit clearer to casual audience members. I don't point this out as some major flaw or anything like that, but it is a small drawback in my opinion. Another thing that it could have explained more clearly is the relationship between Saw, the Ersos and Krennic, etc.

 

1. Title Logo - It was abrupt and really symbolized the intensity and desperation of the Rebel Alliance. I would have preferred it to be filled in, but that's a really minor gripe.

2. Captions - I liked it. Keep the swipes for the episodic films, it's how Flash Gordon and old films that inspired the first Star Wars did it. Also, AoTC has like 50 now that I think about it

3. Re-shoots - Some of the trailer lines and shots were so iconic, and I missed seeing them. Saw's "What will you become" speech, Krennic in front of a Death Star panel, walking through Scarif's destruction. I really wanted to see the furious and working-man Krennic kill some Rebels, and then get shot after returning to the tower by Cassian. Didn't change the fact that the final act was terrific and electrifying.

4. Planets - Too many planets, or too much fun? I think dropping 1 or 2 would help, but it only seems to be an issue to some because most of the planets were introduced in the first two acts. I didn't care, and loved the trading post nestled between two asteroids.

5. Inappropriate Cameos - Fan service is evident, but c'mon, R2 and C-3PO have to be in every movie, especially since they have huge roles in ANH. I hope one day R2 becomes an official recorder of the Whills. We know from the 3PO comic even he retains fragments of the PT after having his memory wipe, so restoration may be possible and he also too becomes a recorder for the Whills. Pondo is known through 12 systems. If Jedha was one, either he's down to 11 or he had 13

6. Music - Soundtrack made in 4 weeks for an Anthology film, and for four weeks, it's damn good. Will never be as memorable, but I still remember the theme for Vader on Mustafar, Vader wrecking on the Profundity while the Rebels deliver the plans, and the theme that plays as Cassian and Jyn die (reminds me a bit of "Time" from Zimmer)

7. Vehicles - When you're at a top Imperial facility, you tend to have equipment that isn't standardized and is very specialized. You also tend to lose that eqipment wehn two planet surfaces are pulverized.

8. Darth Vader - Vader was perfect in this film. He showed off the same skill he has in TESB. If he was on the ground at Scarif, that would be overkill. And as for Vader not going in headfirst? I mean, he wasn't exactly calm. He already had done enough dirty work, and he let his men and women do the rest. The ship he did clear out was a Rebel warship, and the Tantive IV an ambassador's ship. Once on the ship, he literally picks up and strangles Captain Antilles. Vader just knows not to destroy a ship that has political ties. What happens on the inside is a different matter.

9. The Death Star Origins - Sigh. Making the Death Star didn't take 20 years. The laser did. Erso is the energy specialist who was manipulated into creating the laser. Work also happens to stall because he tried to escape Krennic, Coruscant and the Empire after he found out the truth. After several years, he's forced back after his wife is killed and his child escapes with Saw. He learns to fight from within and makes the exhaust port weakness, which is directly linked to the laser.

10. CGI Tarkin & Leia - I agree, they were good. I found Tarkin to improve and move and look more like Cushing by the end of the movie. Leia's mouth threw me off, but she looked great. I agree, this CGI can and most likely will be improved in future releases in the future. Looks a lot better than Jeff Bridges in Tron Legacy, and that was only 6 years ago.

 

Shows how a good performance can lift those feelings off the page. She was great in the hologram scene and when she meets with Rebel leadership after being rescued. Definitely showed how much she's tried to forget some feelings that are impossible to forget.

I liked Diego's performance even better.

 

Wow, that young lady should seriously pursue a career as a script doctor. Except that I think that Rogue One did patch up a plothole in ANH (i.e. now there is a good reason for Leia to hope that a weakness can be found), there is not that much I could reply to defend the apparent shortcomings of RO, presented in that video.

 

'I was a bigger fan of the trailer for Rogue One than the movie itself' - I think I can sympathize with that sentiment.

 

A month later, and I still love the movie. OF COURSE it has shortcomings, but being the first stand-off movie the bar was raised too high, I daresay.

If I rewind the tape back to last year this time, there was a lot of criticism about TFA as well. I guess there will be always people who would like and who would not like something and I respect that.

 

When I first saw TFA, I legitimately enjoyed the film, but was really bummed out by all the similarities to ANH. After seeing it a number of times, I’ve grown more fond of it and am far more forgiving now. It’s easily my fourth favorite SW movie.

Rogue One, on the other hand, I thought was just OK. I was never really interested in a ‘get the Deathstar plans’ movie form the start, so this project didn’t hold much anticipation for me. When I saw the first couple trailers though, I was all on board. I was certain that I’d been too closed minded and this picture would be amazing. I left the theater feeling fairly underwhelmed. It wasn’t bad, but I found myself back to where I was originally - take it or leave it. I have no real intentions of ever seeing this film again. It was good enough for what it is: a one-off adventure in AGFFA. It didn’t resonate much with me beyond that. But I’m glad it’s brought joy to so many other fans

 

I think Rogue One is a better film than Force Awakens, maybe even better than Jedi.

It is far from perfect. But the end result left me feeling for these characters and the sacrifice they gave.

I found the characters to be well written. You could argue that there could have been more but I felt it worked for the story they were trying to tell.
Darth Vader’s scene at the castle could have been tweaked a bit, instead of him having throwing a pun.

I think Force Awakens has flashier characters but they aren’t that well developed. They have good one liners but there isn’t really any depth to them. Finn’s relationship with Rey isn’t really earned. I felt Jynn’s relationship with Cassian was much more earnest.

When Finn sees Rey is being taken by Ren, he acts like she’s the love of his life, but that isn’t consistent with what he did before. They want us to think Finn was so moved by Rey but they don’t really showcase moments that make it feel believable. He just escapes with her in the Falcon then they go through a rathtar, then they go to Maz Kanata’s castle. There’s no breathing room for them to get to know each other. Han and Leia’s relationship felt earned in Empire when she says I love you because they took time to show their relationship building.

I think Rogue One is much more focused than Force Awakens. Force Awakens felt gimmicky and didn’t really have a consistent storyline. Rogue One does have some on the nose references to the original films but I was able to overlook that because it was a focused film.

I am not sure what Force Awakens is really about. New Hope is about finding yourself, Empire is about failure, and Jedi is about redemption.

Rogue One is about doing the right regardless of your own selfish desires, that’s the way I read it. I thought it was touching when Jynn wants to beat up Krennick but Cassian tells her to leave it. It shows Cassian has changed, this is a ruthless captain who shoots to kill, but he’s changed throughout the story.
It’s not about Jynn getting her revenge, its about devoting yourself to a cause in hopes for a better outcome.

 

Thanks for sharing.

And that is why I always quote wise Obi-Wan Kenobi when he said:

"Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view"

So it's totally OK if that is your perspective regarding this movie. And that is the beauty of Star Wars fandom: there is such a diversity of contents and material thus it is totally understandable if some people like or dislike a specific piece of it. Some folks love the Legends, some people prefer the prequels, some others love the animated series, etc. And it is completely OK. What it is not is to discredit the preferences of other fans based on our own.

 

Rey saved his life on Jakku. He repaid that gesture by lying to her and abandoning her. Now he’s seeing her in the hands of someone he knows firsthand is a ruthless killer - because he got her involved. He feels both guilt and responsibility. The reaction seems perfectly appropriate to me.

It’s about ‘legacy’. Making good on the promise of those that came before you. ‘Finishing what they started’ if you will.

Cassian is introduced to us as a staunch pragmatist who puts the mission above the person. This idea is fairly immediately contradicted though. The only stated value Jyn had to his mission was getting him through the front door to see Saw (heheh, ‘see-saw’) and “the pilot”. Once Cassian had Bodhi, why bother bringing Jyn along too? Why reject his order to kill Galen? The short time he spent with her on Jedha was supposed to be that transformative? It didn't really land for me.

 

I don't think it was supposed to do more than show that he thought she could be quite useful. Perhaps that she's much more adept as a fighter than he anticipated.

 

Maybe so. That would explain why he brought along Chirrut and Baze too. All I know is: if I was tasked with killing somebody (just a regular old Wednesday), having the mark’s kid hanging around wouldn’t be very conducive to getting the job done. That’s just me though. I’m a softy.

 

How did Rey save his life on Jakku? They both run together escaping the tie fighters. The emotional moment that he says with her on Maz’s Castle is unearned. We don’t see them actually have a deep connection. They escape Jakku and then the film immediately jumps to another set piece. After spending maybe about two hours of daytime(10 minutes of screen time) he then decides she’s this special thing. That’s not an earned beat. Notice how Han and Luke developed a relationship throughout a New Hope, before Luke got pissed at him for bailing out before the battle and then finally, the two share a big hug at the end. That’s an earned relationship.

Force Awakens may be about legacy but none of it is really taken seriously. Rey is good at everything Why? None of her character traits drive the story the way Luke or Han’s did in the original.

Rey wants to be with her family. Ok fine, but none of that is really addressed. What about her family? It’s very vague. Notice how we spent enough time with Luke to see his ambitions and hopes and desires? She doesn't have any flaws. And when she gets in trouble, she gets out easily. There’s no tension because she can do anything.

Finn seemed perfectly keen on abandoning Rey then he gets worked up when Ren takes her. That’s a reaction that you would have with someone that you’ve spent a lot of time with. They haven’t been through enough. He just met her.

When Finn and Poe reunite, they act like they've been best buds. They literally just met. Poe disappears and comes back for no reason, other than to make it a surprise.

Cassian rejected his order to kill Galen because he feels that there is hope. No he wasn’t transformed by her immediately but he looks for a better solution. He is weary of the war.

It’s about luck and how doing the right thing may lead to success. Cassian didn't act like Jynn was the love of his life. He’s a bitter captain who has been in the fight since he was six years old.

Why bring Jynn along? Because she has the information about Galen and the planet was collapsing, he does what any normal person would do. Jynn tells him that her dad put a weakness in the Death Star. He does believe her but says “I'm not the one you need to convince.”

When they hug at the end, it’s not out of love, it’s a mutual respect and an acceptance that they are about to die. They don't know if they succeeded but they did what they had to do or felt was right. It’s about doing what’s necessary and what’s right regardless of the outcome.

 

Speaking to this last point ^^:

I think Cassian changed his mind about pulling the trigger on Galen because he heard Bodhi talking to Jyn about how Galen told him he could get right with himself and do something to make a difference. There's a lingering camera shot where you see Cassian eyeing the two as Bodhi speaks. And since we know he's an assassin who doesn't necessarily like that about himself, and Chirrut just told us Cassian is carrying his cage around with him, it makes sense that Cassian would think twice about killing Galen. Not only has he just heard that there is hope to redeem himself if he doesn't continue down the road he's on, he's also learned that Jyn was most likely telling the truth about the kind of person Galen was because Bodhi just backed that up. Galen wasn't a person who deserved to be murdered but rather a person who could help the Rebels. The X-wing strike then took that decision out of his hands.

As for why he brought them all along, that's tougher. I guess because Jyn saved him on the street in Jedha city, and Chirriut and Baze also saved them, and he wasn't disloyal? Because he had unspoken orders to bring Jyn back for the Rebels to use further somehow? Because they're the costars? Anyway, yes, he definitely needed Bodhi to guide him at Eadu not only to the lab but to identify Galen Erso.

 

Finn is a known deserter and traitor who knowingly aided an enemy prisoner escape. That would be a capital crime by most military codes. If he goes back to the FO, he’ll probably be executed. She’s the direct reason he wasn’t captured. Thus, she saved his life. Get it?

The movie made a distinct effort to show what sort of strict background and upbringing Finn had. Next to Poe, the time he spent with Rey is probably the closest thing to a real friendship he’d ever been allowed to experience as a Storm Trooper. A ‘friendship’ that he knew was predicated on a lie. He knew she wanted to stay on Jakku, but was willing to leave in order to help him achieve what she thought was a noble deed. That’s a lot for someone to deal with having likely never encountered issues like this before.

The analogous situation exists when Finn, someone Rey had thought abandoned her (just like her family before), had shown up to SKB, risking his life to save hers.

Not by you anyway

Maybe this will be addressed in the next couple episodes. Maybe it won’t. I’m personally reserving judgement until then.

Would any “normal” person murder an asset because it would be harder to escape with him than without him? I don’t know if that’s a call I'd be capable of making.

Cassian made a practical decision in response to a dire situation. The guy’s disability wouldn’t allow him to easily escape and his knowledge couldn’t allow him to be captured. Trying to preserve his life wasn’t as important as completing the mission. Simple as that.

It’s a similar scenario with Jyn. His job was to find and eliminate Galen Erso. Bodhi knew where Galen was and could ID him. Their position was about to be wiped out. She’d already served her purpose. The practical thing to do would be to ditch her and book it to Eadu. But that’s not what happens. He made special effort to save her life at the possible cost of his own, for no apparent benefit that I can see. Just because he cares about her now? When did this shift happen? That’s not particularly good character development in my opinion.

 

Not criticisms, but more of a wishlist for Rogue One than anything else:

• a slightly clearer reveal of Chopper (from Rebels)
  
• a second or two close-up shot of the Ghost (also from Rebels) engaging the Empire above Scarif
• inclusion of that TIE fighter scene with Jyn scene from the trailer
• a sentence or two more on kyber crystals and/or the [Guardians of the] Whills
• inclusion of that quick bird's eye view sequence of the U-Wing cruising over the fallen Jedi statue on Jedha
• some more time developing Saw Gerrera's character
• another flashback (or a slight expansion of the Coruscant scene) providing some further context to the earlier relationship between Galen Erso and Director Krennic
• a scene or two where Galen is shown working on the Death Star and perhaps having a "eureka" moment, at which point he decides to go forward with an intentional design flaw (instead of being told, after the fact, as in the film)

Always things I would change or tweak, were I involved, but I appreciated and enjoyed the final result nonetheless and felt the episode sucessfully deepened the Star Wars mythos and overall universe. Always great to see new sights.

But this is really just the beginning, and there is so much potential yet to be explored.

 

After hearing why it was cut, I'm glad they did. Maybe they could have come up with something better though?