Criticisms Of Rogue One

Rey is the reason Finn didn’t get captured? Hardly. Tie fighters and storm troopers come in, Finn drags her along. They then escape in the Falcon because apparently Rey can fly just because.

None of Finn’s actions directly cause Kylo Ren to capture Rey. There is no depth to Finn. Yes he wants to defect, so what? We don’t really get any breathing room to process what he’s going through as a defected storm trooper because the next scene we see him being flirty with Rey and then making one liners.

Luke has dreams and ambitions, which are played into the conflict of the story. His actions have consequences just like Han’s motivations and actions drove what was happening to other characters.

What is Rey’s flaw exactly? She doesn't have any. Luke had flaws. Han and Leia had flaws, which drove the story. Rey doesn’t have any trust issues, maybe abandonment issues but they’re never put into focus or provide any consequence to other characters or what’s happening.

Cassian was going to go alone to kill Galen but he chose not to. He could have pulled the trigger but didn’t. as II already said, he sees not killing Galen to be a better solution. Yes he is pragmatic but he is also bitter and he has second thoughts about his orders. He is dedicated to the rebellion but he is also bitter, “i’ve been in the fight since I was six years old.”

His secret orders are to kill the person who helped build the enemy’s deadliest weapon, despite being told in the briefing room to bring back Galen and to bring him to the Senate. Bringing him to the Senate probably wouldn’t have changed a whole lot and so his general doesn’t believe Galen can be any use to him and worse, could be a threat, maybe a trap. These are realistic decisions that are made during times of war.

You have to take lots of precaution when dealing with a person who wants to defect, you risk a whole lot just like the person who’s defecting is.

They go to Jedha to get the information from Bodhi. Jynn retrieves the information that Bodhi was given that Saw now has. She finds out that beloved father placed a weakness in the enemy’s deadly weapon, that could create a huge blow to the Empire. Remember this Death Star is the weapon that will exert Palpatine’s full control around the galaxy.

Jynn saw her mom get killed, her dad get taken away and was raised by an extremist outlaw. She’s a warrior, tired and wants to just get away.
But she is moved by her father’s risk and sacrifice. So she decides to join the fight because that’s what her father would have wanted. Too bad the transmission that she has is destroyed by the power of the Death Star.

Cassian sees Jynn’s reaction and he also sees what this deadly device can do. He takes a leap of faith in Jynn’s optimism and the possibility that there IS a weakness(that no one else is aware of) to destroy this weapon.

That is what the film is dealing with. Taking a leap of faith, despite having no control over the outcome, simply because it’s the right thing to do.

The Rebels indirectly caused Galen’s death. Jynn is initially pissed, as anyone would, but what can she do? It’s war and the film takes time to show her grievance. However, rather than saying no I’m not going to help, she decides to help the Rebellion anyway. That to me is a sign of selfless behavior and fits with the dark and gritty tone.

Rogue One is not perfect but the film is at least focused and has a specific goal, at least in my opinion.

 

Yes, if Rey can’t magically fly the Falcon, then Finn is likely captured.

Rey is with Finn because he allows her to think they have to deliver BB8 to the Resistance. That’s what leads her to Takodana and her capture.

He’s a soldier who was raised and steered like cattle to fight, kill and die for a purpose he doesn’t believe in and revolts against it. There’s absolutely depth there. If you can’t make the emotional connection, then that’s certainly going to hinder your ability to appreciate the character Boyega is portraying.

Are you arguing that the actions of the characters in TFA don’t have consequences that affect others and drive the story? That they aren’t informed by their personal points of view?

Isn’t Rey the one that refused Luke’s lightsaber? Refused everything Maz was offering that came with it? Chose to head back to Jakku when there was nothing there for her? She was delusional and needlessly reluctant. That’s a flaw, it drives her actions, it propels the story and ultimately affects other characters.

Man, it’s such a bizarre feeling to defend TFA after dumping on it in other threads.

Cassian doesn’t know this when he makes the deliberate act to save her that I’m referring to.

 

Yes we are told about Finn but we do not see how being a defect stormtrooper actually affects him, all it is is that he wants to get away from them. He wants to get away from them because they are bad and they kill people but that’s not enough.

Why is Finn able to wield a lightsaber if he was a janitor? The First Order may have trained him but that’s not enough. We don’t really know what he’s good at or what his weaknesses are. He expresses a wide range of emotions but what traits does he have that we can articulate with him the way we can wit Han, Luke, and Leia?


Rey’s refusal has no depth. What is the purpose of that force vision, as in how does it drive the plot or the story? Luke’s force vision was foreshadowing his confrontation with Vader and also shows his naiveness. It was test for Luke to resist hate, which he fails.

Rey’s vision is a series of random images, some of which are stemmed from other movies. How does that affect that plot that is currently going on? It doesn’t. She runs into a forest and then BB8 follows her. then she gets captured.

The lightsaber calls to her. What does that have to do with the rest of the story? Yes it was once Luke’s but what does that have to do with what’s going on?
Also that reluctance that you talk about is something that should have been done in the first act.

You can’t just say it’s a set up for another movie. I have said this many times but a New hope wasn't just a set up. It may have left certain loose ends but it was a complete story and stood on its own.


Cassian does know about the plans for the Death star. When they escape Jedha, Jynn tells him. Then he says “I am not the one you need to convince.” They then go to Euda or whatever its called, this is where he starts to have a second thought about what his next steps are. When the Alliance comes in, that is when he saves her.


While Rogue One doesn’t have as much depth as the characters of the OT, it has enough for the story to work and the film knows exactly what its trying to do. Force Awakens is too busy trying to set up another movie that it doesn’t provide anything dramatically satisfying. It’s a series of possibilities but nothing that really provides depth. A New Hope didn’t drill people with a mystery box because there was no mystery box.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 26, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 25, 2017 ---

Top Ten excuses to be snarky and trash a film to get youtube views, while I have my BB-8 toys carefully placed behind me to show that I am an Abrams lover.

 

Finn had training, and still got his butt handed to him, so that's not even an issue. He's also frightened by what he sees, and that stays constant from when he argues with Poe, to leaving Han and Rey initially. He overcomes that cowardice when seeing Rey being abducted by the big scary wizard that scared him in the first scene of the film.

Luke's lightsaber is her link to 'awakening' and being the one to find Luke, rather than Kylo Ren. Her destiny is to wield the lightsaber, and she does it after initially not wanting to even leave Jakku.

ESB had a pretty big mystery box regarding three big things ('other hope', Han, Vader). It's a set up and only the second film in a franchise.

It's useless to use Luke's vision in a second film after intense training by two different mentors to critique the purpose of Rey's first contact in her first film, which is her window to the destiny that lies somewhere other than Jakku. Its not some huge mystery as to why its there, we see that that it foreshadows her confrontation with Kylo Ren that actually does happen at the end of the film - with Kylo in a snowy forest.

Its all there.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 26, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 26, 2017 ---

lol, she tried, I'm not gonna give that a click though.

 

Overcome his cowardice? We are given zero time to process his emotional decisions. He is not cowardly with Poe. He is nervous but that’s not cowardice.

He miraculously witnesses planets being destroyed, despite them being light years away. He was SOOOO reluctant not to go bring the droid back and he so badly wants to leave the first order because he has allegedly seen all the horrible things he has done. From that perspective, looks like he’s on his way to go to the outer rim. But then he goes back so suddenly and ask where is Rey. Why does he do this? He cares for her I guess...no that’s not enough. He just had this emotional moment with her and then now he wants to go back so soon.

The film is emotionally all over the place, like all of Abrams movies.

Han was so adamant about not helping out during the battle of Yavin. We processed this information. They took time to foreshadow his rescuing Luke. We see he is overcoming his selfishness.

See the difference?



No it’s not all there.
What awakening? that is hardly the center of the film or the focus. We get one line from Snoke.

And the lightsaber is introduced so late in the story. Its there just for the sake of it. I would have an easier time seeing your point if that lightsaber came to her early.

Rey is a gifted person but that is no excuse for lack of flaws. Will Hunting is a gifted mathematician, but he is a flawed person and that is the focus of that story.

Rey doesn't have any flaws, those abandonment issues aren’t really flaws. She’s not distrusting, she’s a friendly go getter. Get captured by a mind reading creepy Sith? No problem I’ll somehow read his mind. What did she do to learn how to defeat him telepathically?

Empire had cliffhangers and it was the middle of the film. However, we at least have a complete experience, even with it being a sequel. Like we discovered new aspects of the world of Star Wars. We see our characters gradually change and learn different parts of the force. We had enough time to get to know the characters more. It’s a film about failure and about resisting hate. It is a focused story. It has an emotional climax.

Also Yoda says there is another, this comes after feeling frustrated by Luke’s hastiness to go off and face Vader despite his training being incomplete. It’s an organic moment because we see Yoda being agitated by Luke’s failures and impatience. “Told you I did, reckless is he.”

The reason why the vader vision in Empire worked was because we knew Vader was hunting Luke Skywalker. And we had enough time with Yoda and the mystical place of Dagobah where this made sense. Kylo Ren is after the map to Skywalker, not Rey. Yes, he takes some interest in this girl but that really isn’t the center of his motivations. So seeing Kylo Ren in the snow doesn’t really feel connected.


Finn had training? They teach janitors how to use a sword apparently.

 

Being a cute little white girl with any level of interest in "nerd/geek" culture is so playing on easy difficulty for clicks/views hahaha


(calm down at a joke)

 

Han had one conversation and we're thrown immediately into the Battle of Yavin. It's not that different.

Rey changes - has an awakening. Its there.

Finn was a stormtrooper. Keyword: trooper.

ESB has several cliffhangers.

 

ESB= carefully read what I said about that movie


Han has one conversation with Luke, which was the result of their adventures together throughout the film. We got to know Han as a selfish cocky scoundrel. There was build up to this decision. He had a previous talk with Leia, expecting to be well paid and before that was reluctant to rescue the princess until he heard $$$$, we also got know him as man with a debt to be paid to jabba. That one moment with greedo is there to provide some insight as to who he is, an outlaw who shoots first. So we come to know his side of things when he the reward

Rey has an awakening does not excuse lack of real character development. The awakening of the force is addressed once and is never talked about again. Rey changes=unearned


Storm trooper that's a janitor knows how to wield a lightsbaer and can fight sith emo.

Abrams wants to show people going from struggling to being good without showing the struggle. They are not good st something but suddenly are without any build up to it.


We have different opinions on this matter=that is all

 

Stormtroopers were taught several combat techniques, even wielding a different weapon as seen in TFA. In general ppl don't like the actor they chose to portray Finn so if they had chosen someone more to their liking they would believe he could wield a saber. For example, I don't believe a farm boy who can pilot a common plane can jump in a star fighter valued at millions of credits and become the best star fighter in the galaxy or even worse a 9 year old jumping in a star fighter and taking out a battle cruiser.

 

It's bizarre people dismiss information provided right in the films and can't understand the context of a franchise film....we're decades into this.

 

Why isn’t that enough? He’s a character that was raised all his life in a murder cult that was conditioning him since childhood to be a disposable killing machine. He recognizes the nefariousness of their ambitions and flees. Now he has to make due living in a world he doesn’t know or understand, having been reliant on the First Order. That’s more than enough for me.

Why isn’t that enough? It’s nothing but a lethal flashlight. Stick the glowy part in your enemy and not yourself. Tada, I just taught you how to use a lightsaber.

The lightsaber (Force) was calling to her, the vision is what it was saying. It’s a jumble of images and overwhelming, because that was Rey’s experience. It’s a flurry of moments from the past and future. She’s not ready to understand them yet. We’re not supposed to know what it means yet either.

It was. She wanted to get back to Jakku the second she left and said so. Which was moronic sense the FO would have been waiting for her there. She reiterates this point again when she turns Han’s job offer down.

Of course ANH was a self-contained story. It had to be. Lucas was doubtful he’d be able to make one sequel, let alone two. He only had the tiniest idea of where he wanted to go with the next movie in 1977. TFA is the first entry in a deliberately structured trilogy. There’s already a roadmap for all three films. It’s long form story telling. A seed planted in Ep7 might no pay off until Ep9. If you don’t appreciate that then it’s your loss.

I don’t want to strain my arm patting myself on the back, but I feel reasonably confident I adequately explained which scene I was referring to. When Cassian is free of his cell and has Bodhi, he could have headed straight for the U-wing piloted by K2. He had what he came for. He deliberately decides to postpone his escape in order to go back for Jyn and convince her to come with him. He knew nothing about Galen’s message and its contents at that point. So why go back unless it was a product of him picking principle over duty?

. . . in your opinion.

 

There is nothing wrong with planting seeds but there has to be some fulfillment. The film simply doesn’t have a life of its own and is too busy mimicking the same story beats of better films.

Finn is a tiny written character. People like him because they like John Boyega as an actor.
We’re never going to agree on this.

I personally feel the film was a series of unearned beats.

He went back to save Jynn because she may have information that could be useful. He doesn't know its Galen’s message yet

This dude nails every problem I have with Force Awakens

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/06/28/star-wars-the-force-alluded-to


While I like the characters or actors in Force Awakens, I ultimately am going to reserve judgment to see what Rian Johnson will do with the next installment.

As of now, The force Awakens is to me a series of tired gimmicks and rehash of other movies. Its solid fun entertainment but isn’t really anything else but that.

 

The lack of development for the characters is noticeable, but it is hard to pull good characters off when every single one of them is killed. It noticeable but I'm not really bothered by it. The only thing I really dislike about Rogue One is the Bor Gullet scene. It had no reason to be in there and they could've just found Bodhi in the cell later and took the movie from there.

 

Could you please provide a heads-up or link?

I still haven't learned "why" it was cut, but if Jyn was about to take the TIE figher out with her blaster pistol, then I'm happy I didn't need to see that.

 

X-Wing was going to come in and save the day by blowing it up the exact same way the X-Wing did on the beach to the AT-ACT. It was going to be repetitive so they cut and reworked it.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 26, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 26, 2017 ---

All SW films have to have a slimy creature (Jar Jar x3 lololol, Bor Gullet, Dianoga, swamp creature, sarlaac, rathtars).

It also showed verifiable torture that Saw was using, he was really off his rocker.

 

The Bor Gullet scene was probably the weakest scene in the movie for me. I would have removed that completely and have Saw interrogate him instead. In the movie, we are TOLD he is an extremist in his ways, but we don't really SEE it. Him interrogating & torturing Bodhi in brutal ways could have showed that. Afterwards, we could have seen Bodhi recovering in the prison cell, distressed and could have had little flashback (similar to Coruscant scene) of Bodhi's conversation with Galen. (Similar to in the novelisation where we are told he spoke to him in the meal line)

 

Oops, sorry about that. What BobaFettNY21 said. It was a repetitive sequence. If they had come up with a more unique way to resolve that scenario then maybe it would have been cool to keep in. Probably they should have stopped showing it in the trailers once they knew it wouldn’t be in the film for the sake of accurate marketing though.

I wouldn’t trade that scene for anything. It’s so outrageously silly looking and comically over the top in the most unintentionally hilarious way. Best laugh of the movie for me.

Except we don’t get to see Bor Gullet’s ‘ruling’ and Bodhi seems perfectly fine, although a bit dazed, afterward. So, this goofy sequence is kind of pointless. After all the notorious ‘reshoots’ and deleted scenes, this is what HAD to stay in? It’s absurdly stupefying and I love it!

 

It didn't detract from the overall quality of the film for me, so it's more of a nitpick, but I didn't like the use of location-naming captions.

 

I agree that the scene does tell you a little about Saw, but it would've worked a little more if Saw had a bigger role in the overall film. I am looking forward to learning more about him in the canon stuff.