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Criticisms Of Rogue One

Discussion in 'Rogue One' started by SKB, Dec 18, 2016.

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How would you rate Rogue One score out of 10?

  1. 10

    30 vote(s)
    13.5%
  2. 9

    64 vote(s)
    28.7%
  3. 8

    70 vote(s)
    31.4%
  4. 7

    34 vote(s)
    15.2%
  5. 6

    12 vote(s)
    5.4%
  6. 5

    6 vote(s)
    2.7%
  7. 4

    5 vote(s)
    2.2%
  8. 3

    1 vote(s)
    0.4%
  9. 2

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. 1

    1 vote(s)
    0.4%
  1. Mudbone

    Mudbone Rebel General

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    I initially saw it in 3D, which was a mistake, because so much of it was dark and gloomy. Apart from that, none of the new characters were particularly interesting, the villain was weak, it lacked the whimsy that made previous Star Wars movies great, it had little to no suspense, the final space battle wasn't really anything we haven't seen before, and none of the new planets left much of an impression. I watched again today for the second time and liked it better this time around. In fact, I liked some elements better than 'The Force Awakens'. In short, I enjoyed it enough this second time that I give it a marginal passing grade.
     
  2. Modragon

    Modragon Rebel Official

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    I have three problems with Rogue One. Only one of them is a big deal.

    1: Leia looks terrible. They did such a great job with Tarkin, he's not remotely perfect, but a great, necessary addition to the film. Perhaps it's because he has such a large role? You'd think Leia's would have been an easier design considering its only a few seconds. They should have used Billy Lourd as he actress so the face would have been similar.
    2: Darth Vader sounds goofy and not at all his menacing self. He sounds like a fat guy who's just finished a giant meal and is struggling to talk through digestion.
    "Be careful not to choke on that chicken wing, Director Krennic."
    3: The thing that is actually a big deal. Fan service. C3PO and R2 don't need to be shown in this film, and C3PO's stupid comment about about not being told anything is unnecessary. Bail Organa is an amazing character, but the goofy, epic music when he enters the rebel briefing is so out of place. Dr. Evazan and Ponda Baba are stupid, they're stupid in ANH and their stupid on Jedha. The best thing about the two is when their limbs are removed. And like I mentioned, Tarkin is great. He's such an important imperial figure, future administrator of the Death Star, that he should be there, but Leia doesn't need to be. They added it for a memorable ending that would shock and surprise fans. It worked. And though I love Rogue one, this nonsense needs to stop and some originality should be in Disney's future plans.
     
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  3. Lord Neasham

    Lord Neasham Rebel Official

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    I enjoyed Rogue One in the theatre. Though since it’s been released I notice that it does sit on my shelf more compared to other Star Wars films. I don't hate it, but I'm not as pumped to watch it as the others. I think the main reason why is because as a spin off it lacks the elements of a traditional Star Wars film e.g. lightsabers, Jedi vs Sith ect.

    I’m not a director by any means and maybe I’m just too much of a filthy prequel fan but…how cool would it have been if, say, Cassian instead of being just another Han Solo-like character was instead a retired Jedi Knight like Kanaan? Imagine a battle on Scariff where Cassian is in the base and fends off against Sith assassins/Vader’s Inquisitors or maybe even Vader himself as Jyn raced to get the plans and fought Krennic herself. My ovaries might have just exploded in the theatre.
     
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  4. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    But such a move wouldn't make sense within the context of the film. Rogue One is about the world where there are no Jedi and people have to save the galaxy without any Force users. Also, such a move would have completely undermined what the team has done before the battle of Scarif. If a former Jedi had come to the rescue, the most basic purpose of the film wouldn't have been fulfilled.
     
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  5. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    I actually liked Cassian's character a lot more than I expected. He was a Rebel soldier, but also kind of questionable.
     
  6. Lord Neasham

    Lord Neasham Rebel Official

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    I know, you're right. Rogue One is a spin off story about the non-Force users saving the galaxy. That's probably the main reason then why I don't like it as much as the other films personally. It felt a bit like going to see a Pirates of the Caribbean film (which I've never done since the first one) which doesn't have any pirates in it. But I get it, its a spin off tale about rebels - I just couldn't help but miss the elements of a traditional Star Wars film that weren't there. But that's just me.
     
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  7. Finn_McCool

    Finn_McCool Jedi Commander

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    Don't CHOKE on your own aspirations was cringe worthy, it is a dad joke. Evidently Vader really practiced on his puns between Rogue one and Star Wars. I find your lack of faith disturbing was the height of his witty career. Other than that, I can't fault the movie too much, I reeeaaaly enjoyed it.
     
  8. Spongebob456

    Spongebob456 Clone

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    Not sure if this has been addressed before, but what's bugging me is the attitude change from Jyn and Cassian between being on the ship from Eadu to their talk on Yavin. They're at each other's throats on the ship but are OK with each other on Yavin. I'm struggling to get an explanation in my head about that. Cassian had a change of heart off screen?
     
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  9. SKB

    SKB Force Sensitive

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    Just noticed another deviation from the original ANH crawl and the story of RO. The crawl says "During the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans..."

    The Rogue One team were not "spies", they were heavily armed soldiers that broke into the Scarif base by force, setting off bombs and in the loudest most un-covertly way possible. And they even had almost the entire Rebel fleet above them helping out. How is that even remotely the act of being a "spy"?
     
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  10. CaptainPhastastic

    CaptainPhastastic Rebel Official

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    Were Jyn and Cassian not the ones that stole the plans? Did they not dress up as Imperials and infiltrate the base to do so? Was the Batle of Scarif not being waged outside as they did?

    Sounds exactly like "During the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans..." to me.
     
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  11. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    They literally engaged in espionage.
    I really have no idea how that could be interpreted as anything other than "Rebel spies"
     
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  12. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Rebel Official

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    ^ Perhaps "Rebel Commandos", IIRC that was their designation in ROJ when they infiltrated an Imperial facility.

    The original ANH context was a raid on the Imperial shipyards. Frankly, my impression over the years had always been that "during the battle" suggested the plans to be an unexpected find rather than to be the main purpose of this particular mission or battle.
     
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  13. Chairman Kaga

    Chairman Kaga Rebel Official

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    We just finished Orphan Black. First of all, great series. Watch it. But my point here is that Tatiana Maslany was allegedly in contention, possibly the #2 choice, for Jyn. I think LFL made a mistake with Felicity Jones. I've never especially liked her as an actress. I won't bore you with why. But for this role I really felt she lacked gravitas. She doesn't have charisma. And Maslany DOES. I know Orphan Black can sometimes be somewhat gimmicky with regard to the premise of one actress playing 1,021 different characters, but with every one of them she is strong. She would have been a MUCH more fierce and believable Jyn. She'd have been funnier. She'd have been more badass. And I think she would have urged Diego Luna to step up up his game too.
    What coulda been...
     
  14. Ohbe-One Icanbe.

    Ohbe-One Icanbe. Rebel Commander

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    It was good, sure . . . but . . .

    It was good in the same way as meeting an estranged friend from years back, you hope it would be awesome, and just like old times, but you both kinda know that it's just not going to be the same.

    I would have liked to get to know someone new, and I think that's the problem . . whilst a "stand alone" title, it really wouldn't.
    Without Vader and the Death Star plans it's just a lot of fan service.

    If they could have somehow steered away from the "main" plot, I'm sure it would have captured my imagination in a whole different way.
    Now Vader was the high-point, oddly enough, for a story that is supposed to be removed from the original saga.
     
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  15. Linnus

    Linnus Rebel General

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    Saw was widely out of character compared to TCW and died for no reason whatsoever.
    Character Development was lacking across the board.
    Darth Vader was the only memorable scene.
    We have Jet Li in Star Wars and he doesnt fight Darth Vader instead he is not a real force user...
    This is the KaijuKlub with the raid actors all over again.
    And I am annoyed that the flaw in the DS was intentional just look at the history of military invention it doesnt take planned sabatoge to have massive flaws in expensive weapons. Plus the flaw was hardly that major when the Empire was going to cover the DS with a fleet of Star Destroyers and a bunch of tie fighters.
     
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  16. Finn is a Jedi

    Finn is a Jedi Rebel General

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    I just rewatched it so here are some that I have:

    No opening crawl or even something reminiscent of it
    The editing (none of the Star Wars wipes and such)
    Jyn and Cassian are very unlikable characters (maybe the was the point, at least for Cassian)
    Should have been a least one alien on the main team
    Dodonna and Bail only have like 1 line during the Alliance round table meeting but the Minister of Education, and the other two get multiple lines
    I would have preferred if Saw's partisans went to Scarif (like they were originally going to)
    Vader's "Choke" line was one of the worst line is have ever heard in Star Wars (including "I Don't like sand")
    Ponda Baba and Dr. Evezan was so forced (the bad kind of fan service)
    I would have liked it if we saw Porkins and some of the other Red/Gold Squadron like we did Red and Gold leader
    Saw looking at Steela's hologram right before he died would have been really cool
    The score could have been more Star Warsy
    Saw's eyes
    Ackbar as a commander of his own ship at Scarif and then have Raddus promote him when the Profundity is disabled and boarded
    I would have had Yularen, Motti and Tagge on the Death Star with Tarkin and Krennic (although I can see them not wanting to do Motti or Tagge since that would require noticeable recasting)
     
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  17. Pobody's Nerfect

    Pobody's Nerfect Jedi Commander

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    I guess my only criticism of Rogue One was the inconsequential results of scenes that should have mattered. Allow me to explain -

    First, Saw uses the slimy lie detector thingie on Bode the pilot. Then, when Jyn shows up, Saw's still thinking it's all a set-up. He specifically mentions the arrival of the pilot as part of a conspiracy against him. Dude, either you believe your psychic pet or you don't. And if you don't, then that scene is meaningless.

    Second, Jyn accuses Cassian of killing her father, at least indirectly. That kind of accusation changes everything, except in Rogue One it changed nothing. Five minutes later they're working together and the fact that Jyn believes Cassian is responsible for her father's death isn't mentioned again.

    I don't know if some consequences to these scenes were left on the edit room floor. All I know is it felt a little disorienting when a scene that is supposed to change the direction of the plot comes and goes but the plot hasn't budged.
     
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  18. CaptainPhastastic

    CaptainPhastastic Rebel Official

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    How so? Explain. I've watched the Saw episodes in TCW a few times, and the Saw we meet in Rogue One feels like a real and genuine end result for him as a character. It's a fitting and proper conclusion to his character arc. He was ALREADY unhinged in TCW. It makes a great deal of sense that after the death of his sister and the disappearance of the Jedi assistance provided him during the Clone Wars, and 99% of the clones implementing Order 66 and essentially "switching over" to the Empire, and the lack of an organization of fellow rebels or rebel leadership in those early years, that Saw will feel profound grief, betrayal, loss, abandonment, anger, hate, and the strong desire for retribution. After the collapse of the republic and the disappearance of the Jedi, and without a tight knit organization of rebels in place in those early years, Saw would have absolutely nobody to tell him that extremism is "not the way." Not that he would listen or care if they did. The shackles are off, and he is ready to fight and rebel. Because of his traumas, it makes a whole lot of sense that he adopts extremism and violence. The penchant was already there. It also makes a whole lot of sense that he would have come into contact with/befriended someone like Galen, who has abandoned the Empire and escaped to the outer reaches of known space but remains a valuable and key ally for someone like Saw.

    Further, Saw didn't die for "no reason." He fought the Empire for decades. It makes sense that they would finally catch up to him. That they did only AFTER he's assisted in setting their eventual downfall in motion is poetic justice. And good storytelling. He died for everything, not nothing.

    That may be true for you. But it is not true for me. Or many others I'm sure. I found there to be many memorable scenes.

    We had Billy Dee in Empire and ROTJ, and he didn't drink a Schlitz Malt Liquor in them.* What's your point? There was never going to be a Jedi in this movie, and Donnie Yen (not Jet Li) fighting Darth Vader would have been far less dramatic than the ultimate sacrifice Chirrut makes for the good of the team (and the galaxy, it turns out). Further, I had no problem with the Raid actors not acting like they were in the Raid while they were in The Force Awakens. That would have been ridiculous. They weren't brought on to kick ass like in The Raid. They were brought in because JJ liked The Raid, and was essentially giving them a shout out. It's a cameo. Big deal.

    It's incredibly myopic to be annoyed at the fixing of a major problem with ANH. It was always silly that there would be such a glaring, obvious deficiency in the DS that the Rebels know about but the Empire that conceived of and built the dang thing had no clue about. That it was an intentional flaw put there by a rebellious insider is wonderful, compelling storytelling, IMHO.

    *I know that Billy Dee Williams has done a lot more than Star Wars and Schlitz Malt Liquor commercials. I am just using this as illustrative of the logic in the OP's post.
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 7, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 7, 2017 ---
    They address that directly. Jyn confronts Cassian, and Cassian explains why he was up there alone about to shoot her father. She questions why he would do it. Cassian explains that he's lived the rebellion since he was 6, and because of this doesn't have to explain his actions (we are lead to assume that he was stolen from his family, separated from them, or they died when he was young - either way, because of the Empire; this gives weight to the "why"), and that ultimately he did not pull the trigger. When he says "anyone else?", and nobody speaks, the audience is lead to believe that the team realizes he's right and they move on for the greater good of the team/rebellion. You see it on their faces. It's actually strong storytelling - to lead the audience to a place without telling them directly to go there, or saying it explicitly. I prefer that to a line from Jyn saying "you're right Cassian...I forgive you," or some such baloney.

    JYN: You lied to me.
    CASSIAN: You're in shock.
    JYN: You went up there to kill my father.
    CASSIAN: You don't know what you're talking about.
    JYN: Deny it.
    CASSIAN: You're in shock, and looking for someplace to put it.
    JYN: I've seen it before.
    CASSIAN: I bet you have.
    JYN: They know.You lied about why we came here and you lied about why you went up alone.
    CASSIAN: I had every chance to pull the trigger. But did I? Did I?
    JYN: You might as well have. My father was living proof and you put him at risk. Those were Alliance bombs that killed him!
    CASSIAN: I had orders! Orders that I disobeyed! But you wouldn't understand that.
    JYN: Orders?When you know they're wrong? You might as well be a stormtrooper.
    CASSIAN: What do you know? We don't all have the luxury of deciding when and where we want to care about something. Suddenly the Rebellion is real for you? Some of us live it. I've been in this fight since I was 6 years old. You're not the only one who lost everything. Some of us just decided to do something about it.
    JYN: You can't talk your way around this.
    CASSIAN: I don't have to.
     
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  19. Jorgz

    Jorgz Rebel General

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    I love rouge one a great movie!!!
     
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  20. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel General

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    My minor nitpicks:

    - When Bail Organa first enters the room some very epic music starts to play, but then he doesn't say anything. With such an epic entrance, he should have been given a line at that moment, but now the music and scene comes off as rather strange.

    - I didn't like the cameo of Evazan and Baba. Contrary to 3PO and R2's cameo (whom actually had a reason to be on Yavin IV), this one felt forced and there was really no reason for them to be on Jedha at that precise moment.

    - Jyn's speech in front of the rebels and politicians comes off as a bit cliché. Suddenly the rebellion is so real for her, like Cassian said.

    - Tarkin is taller in RO than he is in ANH.
     
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